Fox Theater Mezzanine

**GPCharles** · September-23-10, 02:47 PM

I was at the Fox Saturday night for the Jackson Browne concert, sitting in the mezzanine between the aisle and the front. When he was really rocking and the crowd was into it, the mezzanine was shaking like all get out. We were looking around, as were a lot of people, like what the hell is this...

Has anyone else experienced this?

**gnome** · September-23-10, 03:05 PM

Has anyone else experienced this?

What? Rocked out to Jackson Browne?

Didn't know that was possible.

**GOAT** · September-23-10, 03:10 PM

Most mezzanines flex to absorb movement. I wouldn't worry about it.

**Johnlodge** · September-23-10, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

What? Rocked out to Jackson Browne?

Didn't know that was possible.

Bahahahahaha.

**Baselinepunk** · September-23-10, 03:50 PM

I witnessed the Grand Circus theater's mezzanine flex wildly during "Rock Lobster" back in the '80's. I thought the damn thing was going to come down. It was quite a ta do!

**Gistok** · September-23-10, 03:51 PM

The mezzanine level of any of Detroit's downtown movie palaces is the worst place [[except maybe the back of the main floor under the mezzanine overhang) to be sitting for ANY concert.

Since all the mezzanines downtown are horseshoe shaped, they are located at the back of the balcony overhang, and are often dead spaces for great sound.

I don't know the specifics of why the vibrations, but since the best sound is located in the balcony above you, I wonder if it's the vibration of the balcony that you are sensing. The unsupported balcony is held up by a 170ft. long metal girder that probably was built to allow for vibrations and some movement. Perhaps that is what you were experiencing.

**Bigb23** · September-23-10, 04:10 PM

Back in the day, the Eastowne balcony would sway a little. Some bands brought chunks of ceiling plaster down on the audience.

**mbshan** · September-23-10, 04:29 PM

Back in I think was 1984-1985 my sister and I saw U2 at the Fox and we sat in the mezzanine and experienced the samething. We were going to see INXS within the following couple of weeks and our seat for that were down on the main floor. While sitting there rocking out to some fantastic INXS I turned and looked at the mezzanine and could totally see it bouncing! I was told that the mezzanine section was designed to give like that.

**GrandCircus289** · September-23-10, 04:58 PM

I felt the same thing at a concert at The Fillmore about a month ago.

**REL** · September-23-10, 05:29 PM

This happened to me during a Paul Simon concert. Felt seasick

**Maof** · September-23-10, 06:02 PM

same with me as well...took my daughter to see the jonas brothers at the fox with a house full of tweens and teens.

...it was fun though.

**One Shot** · September-23-10, 06:19 PM

While designed to do this lets face it these things weren't built yesterday! How man "cycles" can they endure. Would hate to experience that!
I would like to see this happening though. Is it like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge???

**eno** · September-23-10, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

I witnessed the Grand Circus theater's mezzanine flex wildly during "Rock Lobster" back in the '80's. I thought the damn thing was going to come down. It was quite a ta do!

I was at that show with my daughter sitting in the mezzanine. I noticed the balcony above us moving up and down to the beat of the B-52s. Kids were writhing at our feet like a lobster out of water. Down Down Down.

**Huggybear** · September-23-10, 07:10 PM

Resonance between the structure, the hearing aids, and the walkers.

Originally Posted by gnome

What? Rocked out to Jackson Browne?

Didn't know that was possible.

**marcwigle** · September-23-10, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by GOAT

Most mezzanines flex to absorb movement. I wouldn't worry about it.

The Fox wasn't built to withstand a rock crowd bouncing around... more likely built just to hold a couple of thousand people watching a movie or stage show. They had no idea what a rock crowd would do to the place... have been in our local arena watching some big names and experienced the same thing and that was built to withstand just about anything.

**downtown_racine** · September-23-10, 09:28 PM

Kind of scary. Beautiful place tho.

**carlscomputers** · September-23-10, 10:29 PM

I was there for 50 Cent's Detroit debut concert & I thought it was gonna fall! Once the crowd up there got to rocking, so did the Mezzanine!

**56packman** · September-23-10, 10:56 PM

GP Charles--were you in the very front protion of the balcony? that is the Loge, the Mezzanine is the exclusive area between the main floor [[Orchestra) and Balcony that is now the corporate suites.
When the Fox was restored in 1987-88 the balcony was modified to compensate for the cyclic loading that occurs during rock concerts. There are counterweights mounted on moment arms that counteract a great deal of the energy transmitted into the balcony structure.
Having said that, the Fox, like all buildings of that era is a built MoFo, the likes of which we will never see again. It has been there for 80 years and has not failed yet. I was not aware that dancing in place while hearing rhythmic music is a new phenomenon. Gee, do you think that might have happened during the big band era? Oh, I guess that doens't count, because it's not rock and you don't like it. Theaters like the Fox and the Capitol [[Opera House) were built in an ear when overbuilding was the norm and materials and labor were cheap. The main beams supporting the balconies on those buildings are truly massive.
Long story short, it's not going anywhere.

**Gistok** · September-24-10, 12:44 AM

Thanks for chiming in 56packman... I thought you would provide some acoustic/sound info.

I too am curious if GPCharles was actually in the suite level [[mezzanine). With his "GP" handle, I took that as a given...

The suite level of the Fox is an exclusive domain... only suite patrons can take the grand staircase in the Grand Lobby up to the mezzanine level. That was one exclusive domain that folks who go to the Preservation Wayne August downtown movie palace tours get to see that folks who go to shows at the Fox are not allowed into.

As you mentioned 56Packman.... those movie palaces in the 1920s were overbuilt to last with enormous steel beams holding up the clear span balconies. And provided you took care of the mechanical... and most important the auditorium roof of the venue, there shouldn't be a problem with a structural collapse.

Also... ornate plaster is never heavier than when it is still wet [[at installation). So as long as the iron rods holding the plasterwork to the roof structural steel are kept dry with a good roof, falling ceiling plasterwork is almost never a problem. Even the former Michigan Theatre's auditorium parking area has a well maintained roof over it... so even though it's open to the elements on the side of the building... rarely does plaster fall there.

**GPCharles** · September-24-10, 07:55 AM

I was in the first row of the balcony. It said MEZZANINE on the tickets. Bought them online the day they went on sale. It was not a suite area. The sound and view were fantastic!

BTW - that main staircase was closed for a "Private Event."

**kryptonite** · September-24-10, 09:05 AM

I have been sitting in mezzanines at the Fox and Grand Circus in the past and felt the up-and-down movement. I have seen it happen when sitting in the main floor at other concerts. Apparently it's nothing serious but I don't care to be under a balcony when it's happening. I used to attend many concerts downtown in the 1980's and 90's, it is a common occurence.

Toolbox · September-24-10, 09:30 AM

I would be more worried being down in front on the main floor at St. Andrews Hall.

The Bad Brains had the whole main floor moving and the down in front area moving a good 6 inches when viewed from the basement.

**56packman** · September-24-10, 10:22 AM

If the venues under discusion were built within the last 30 years THEN I would start to worry.

**Gistok** · September-24-10, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by GPCharles

I was in the first row of the balcony. It said MEZZANINE on the tickets. Bought them online the day they went on sale. It was not a suite area. The sound and view were fantastic!

BTW - that main staircase was closed for a "Private Event."

GPCharles, some theatres call the horseshoe shaped mezzanine the "loge" level, and the front of the balcony the "mezzanine" level. Other theatres call all of the balcony... "the balcony"

It must depend on the venue.

Also some theatres call the inner lobby the grand foyer, others don't.

**Bluenote132003** · September-24-10, 11:52 AM

I was an usher there back when U2 sold out the Fox just before their first arena tour. It was almost impossible to walk across the front of the balcony, it was literally swaying up and down, side to side, as much as a foot at a time. The band actually faltered and almost stopped during "Sunday, Bloody Sunday" while they watched the phenomenon. Chuck Forbes was the owner back then, he had engineers in later that week to confirm what 56packman had noted above: "There are counterweights mounted on moment arms that counteract a great deal of the energy transmitted into the balcony structure". The beams are also made from flex steel, designed to move. Much of the plaster is actually suspended, not stuck solid to ceilings, so it has the ability to move also.