The Recession Has *OFFICIALLY* Ended!!!

[oladub]

Yippee! This is the best news since President Bush gave his speech on the aircraft carrier in front of the "Mission Accomplished" sign and just as believable.

[wolverine]

Most definitely the country is recovering. But with many people still out of the job, tons of office and retail vacancies, and foreclosures still high, we have a ways to go. Moving back up, but still close to the bottom.

[1KielsonDrive]

Except that none of those things factor into the definition of a recession. A recession is two or more quarters of declining GDP.

Unemployment is related to, but independent of, whether or not the country is in a recession.

More Academic speak. Truly out of this world.

[1KielsonDrive]

Henry Ford had a similar idea and took it one step further, he paid for it through his own company.

Thanks for that link. My father attended the Henry Ford Trade School. He spoke fondly of the school and his experiences while there.

[1KielsonDrive]

Yippee! This is the best news since President Bush gave his speech on the aircraft carrier in front of the "Mission Accomplished" sign and just as believable.

Thanks for that analogy. So appropriate.

[1KielsonDrive]

Anytime you compel someone to provide something for someone else involuntarily, it ceases to become a right.

Cute little saying. Simple right-wing, anti-tax nut talk. A one sentence quote to sum up the solution to the whole problem. Never make anyone do anything, it violates their rights and leads to tyranny, socialism and fascism, but more importantly, you might have to do something you don't like.

[blackmath]

Another way to look at it is this. Lets say that a kid who comes from a poor background gets the chance to go to college. This kid becomes a brilliant doctor and cures cancer. Another becomes a great teacher and impacts the lives of many as a direct result of his/her getting a shot. Education benefits society as a whole, not just the person being educated. That person can now take the skills they have learned and contribute to society in a much more meaningful and profound way than they would in this current system.

[johnsmith]

What if I want to shoot you? I'm involuntarily compelled to provide you with a pass.

Because it would infringe on another's rights, get it?

[MCP-001]

Cute little saying. Simple right-wing, anti-tax nut talk. A one sentence quote to sum up the solution to the whole problem. Never make anyone do anything, it violates their rights and leads to tyranny, socialism and fascism, but more importantly, you might have to do something you don't like.

Please explain the difference between the government taking something from me to give to someone else, and a thief putting a gun to my face demanding my money [[a'la lilpup)?

[johnsmith]

Never make anyone do anything, it violates their rights......you might have to do something you don't like.

Slaves would agree with that 100%

[Detroitej72]

Please explain the difference between the government taking something from me to give to someone else, and a thief putting a gun to my face demanding my money [[a'la lilpup)?

Your paying for the privilege of living in this nation. In return you receive protection from the military, clean water, clean air, roads to drive on, have use of the country's power grid so you can rant on Internet boards, and have your food inspected so you can rest assured it contains no toxins, just to name a few.

[Papasito]

Big blunder on Obama's part, proclaiming the recession is over. Business still feels it is under seige, and good times are still far off. I can already see the pictures of Obama superimposed on the aircraft carrier with a huge "recession is over" banner behind him, as unemployment jumps again and the market continues to crash...

Corporate leaders are slamming the president over taxes and the uncertain effects of his policies, and the executives' siege mentality is holding back the economy.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...aspx?GT1=33002

A major architect of President Obama's economic policies will leave the White House at year's end, following two other key players and leaving only Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ers22_ST_N.htm

Your paying for the privilege of living in this nation.

You are paying for far more than that. You are paying for whatever politicians deem you should pay for. You are paying for thier personal agendas and for obscure multi million dollar studies in countries far around the world. You are paying for tens of millions of dollars to stimulate foreign economies with stimulus monies. You are paying for whatever the Government decides to force you to pay for, even if it means they should borrow it from somewhere else to do it. They don't set up thier spending based upon what they take in, they set up thier spending on whatever they want. I don't see the Balls, Parties, and black tie events stopping in Washington full of politicians of both major parties dressed in designer dresses and suits paid for with tax dollars. You are paying for those, too.

[MCP-001]

Your paying for the privilege of living in this nation. In return you receive protection from the military, clean water, clean air, roads to drive on, have use of the country's power grid so you can rant on Internet boards, and have your food inspected so you can rest assured it contains no toxins, just to name a few.

Paying for the "privledge"?

Just where in the hell did you learn civics??!

With the exception of the military, which is solely to be used for defense, NONE of those other items are enumerated powers of the federal government.

[mjs]

Cute little saying. Simple right-wing, anti-tax nut talk. A one sentence quote to sum up the solution to the whole problem. Never make anyone do anything, it violates their rights and leads to tyranny, socialism and fascism, but more importantly, you might have to do something you don't like.

Sounds more left libertarian than right wing.

As a person that supports a more decentralized government, I've always been in favor of state increases in college funding. Of course, also believeing in pay as you go and realizing that nothing in life is free, I'd insist that it come with a tax hike. Same concept as a local mill vote; pay this much more, get this this much more.

However, as the student loan system has been, I don't see how you couldn't have gone to college if you wanted to. Now, Obama's idea to cut out the private lenders puts a new moral twist on it. There's currently a big argument on whether government backed student loans at private colleges are being defaulted on at a 25% or a 45% rate. What!!! Are these the same college graduates making strategic defaults on their half million dollar houses so the taxpayer can pick up the Goldman/AIG tab? Once the feds become direct loan officers, any unscrupulous jackass that wants big government to pay for their education will get away with walking away. So, if there's free education for the unscrupulous jackasses, why not just make free education for all? Especially seeing how there will be a future where the government student loan agency will lose its fannie faster than Fannie. At that point conservatives will say that since there's so much fraud, funding should be cut and then liberals will cry we we we all the way home and in the end once again get votes and big interest money for screwing up something that once worked.

[1KielsonDrive]

Slaves would agree with that 100%

What an analogy. C'mon, you can do better than this crazy hyperbole. If you'd like to extrapolate this debate to 'slavery', I'd like to hear it. Just a slight overstatement in comparisons.

[1KielsonDrive]

Bunch of idiots holed up in their Ivory Tower offices.

[Gyro]

A recession is when other people are laid off.
A depression is when you've been laid off.
I'm depressed.

[maxx]

I'd have to agree with Kielson. I simply cannot trust anything the media tells me. Even if its "over" we still are in a system that is bound to fail again and again. Perhaps we need to do something drastic, like offer college education for free.

Free college to just any schnook who wants to experience the college scene? I hear that there are a lot of "students" attending local community colleges on Pell Grants that can't make the grade. In Europe, there is free college to people who pass entrance tests with a high grade. In this country we have many scholarships and loan programs. Don't people here say that you value more the things you work for? I'd still like to know how a poor country like Cuba can graduate medical doctors for very little money while medical education in this country costs an arm and a leg. I had a conversation with a friend on the relative merits of the U.S. and British health care systems. He was commenting on all the advances the U.S. system had made. My point was if no one can afford them, what good are all the new drugs and procedures?

. This country was founded on destroying the class system [[that is a pointless relic of social control from Europe) forever but it seems like all the powers that be want to do is perpetuate it and put a nice fuzzy spin on it. It's no better in Canada either...

What about Canada are you alluding to?

[maxx]

mjs:As a person that supports a more decentralized government, I've always been in favor of state increases in college funding.

But all states aren't equally wealthy. And why should taxpayers pay for someone to go to college only to leave the state and make their fortune on Wall St.?

[blackmath]

Free college to just any schnook who wants to experience the college scene? I hear that there are a lot of "students" attending local community colleges on Pell Grants that can't make the grade. In Europe, there is free college to people who pass entrance tests with a high grade. In this country we have many scholarships and loan programs. Don't people here say that you value more the things you work for? I'd still like to know how a poor country like Cuba can graduate medical doctors for very little money while medical education in this country costs an arm and a leg. I had a conversation with a friend on the relative merits of the U.S. and British health care systems. He was commenting on all the advances the U.S. system had made. My point was if no one can afford them, what good are all the new drugs and procedures?


What about Canada are you alluding to?

I was referring to the cost of education in this country. It is totally horrendous and increases every year for no apparent reason other than to line the pocket books of the academic elite. Also, if college was offered tuition free, there certainly would be an entrance exam involved, so no "schnook" who wasn't serious about their education could get in and have a free ride. If they want to screw around and goof off, then drop them like a sack of potatoes.

[maxx]

I was referring to the cost of education in this country. It is totally horrendous and increases every year for no apparent reason other than to line the pocket books of the academic elite.

A lot of community colleges have grown up and become colleges and/or universities. That takes a lot of construction and additional faculty.

[MickeyMac]

I dont think they no longer count Michigan anymore. Look around this state. Umemployment, people are broke and/or living on some of state and federal relief just to make ends meet.

Recession is over my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blackmath]

A lot of community colleges have grown up and become colleges and/or universities. That takes a lot of construction and additional faculty.

Not in Ontario. Community Colleges were established as just that, colleges from 1965-70. Prior to those we had only Universities and this is why in Canada we distinguish between going to "college" [[community/Jr. college/trade school in the US) and going to "university" [[four year college in the US) in our vernacular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ges_in_Ontario

Also, I realize it takes a lot of money to run a proper, competitive university, but increasing tuition by 1-2,000 dollars per year is in the range of the totally ridiculous. Going to university constantly reminds me that it is a business as much as it's an institution of higher learning, which disappoints me in a way...

But anyway, back to the subject at hand, recession bad, jobs good.

[GOAT]

The Windsor Star just had an articel that showed student debt in Ontario doubled in the last 20 years. I guess only the well off deserve an education. But it's ok. You can always get gov't loans....at 12% interest!