Legalize drugs, yes or no?

[Django]

Ive been a longtime advocate of ending the drug war. The prison system has become common and big big business that relies on the drug war to feed its hunger for fresh humans to "store" for their so called crimes. The United States prison system has more than doubled its population since the 80s when Regan reintroduced Nixon's drug war. We now house about two million with roughly half of those for drug related crime. The drug war has made for a lucrative trade in our streets all while using violence to control it. Kids are prone to have drugs in their hands because they cn make a better living selling them than they can working at McDs or Burger Kang.
I'm familiar with the argument that crime follows drug use, but I dont buy it. The price of drugs is that because its illegal. The markup of marijuana cocaine heroin and the rest is astronomical all because its illegal. AFOAF bought some illegal drugs in Asia about 10 years ago and paid $200 for 20 grams and when he got them home to Seattle he found that they were worth $1000 a gram or $20,000. Supply and demand will not cease, you can push it underground and fuel the prison industry but your never going to stop supply and demand.
23,000 dead in Mexico alone in the past three years from the drug cartel violence over drugs and their smuggling routes. There are many more ppl dying over drugs than by drugs. I know drug addicts, and the main problem they all say is the fact that they are illegal. If it wasn't for the expense of overpriced drugs many of them could lead more normal lives. Getting caught with drugs and getting yourself on paper doesn't look good to an employer.

Here on Dyes Ive noticed a change over the past ten years in the opinions on mainly marijuana but also on harder drugs. Im just curious where you all are at on this subject today.

Drug abuse is a very sad but very natural problem. The idea that anyone who uses substances deemed illegal by our government should be imprisoned I believe is wrong. I believe these people have a health issue and their substance of choice should be regulated and taxed to offset the debt they cause to the public. I believe they should be able to get treatment on demand.Harm reduction is the key word.

What say you?

[MizMotown]

Self medicating is big business. Obviously there is huge supply and demand. Tough question w/ no easy answers. Seems some folks look the other way at all the drug dealers on the streets of Detroit. How else are they gonna pay for all the kids they keep having? It's a way of buying "stuff" that they think they need to make them somebody. Not enough jobs to go around that pay crap, and that's the facts.

Would legalization only be for certain drugs? Would the message be "hey it's okay to stir up a bunch of chemicals in a big ole' rusty bathtub and sell them to underage kids at rave parties?"

Do I believe users should be imprisoned? Not really. I think they need help. But alot of users are imprisoned because of crimes commited because of the drug.

Again, no easy answers.

[rb336]

Do I believe users should be imprisoned? Not really. I think they need help. But alot of users are imprisoned because of crimes commited because of the drug.

a lot of those crimes are related to the cost/difficulty obtaining the drug in the first place. prevent crime - legalize!

[Johnlodge]

I'm 100% for legalizing marijuana, it is not illegal for any reasons other than big business, see The Emperor Wears No Clothes. I'm less certain on other extremely addictive drugs with more serious effects.

[Big Dog]

Yes to some, especially pot.

[maxx]

I am in favor of legalizing and regulating marijuana although with all the different levels of THC available today, even this is not a simple matter. The Dutch have a non-enforcement policy today for most soft drugs. As far as I can see, their main aim is to get the hard drug users off the streets and into rehabilitation. That probably means that they spend more on drug rehab then drug policing. I don't know how well that would go over in many parts of the U.S..since a lot of people here don't even want to have decent healthcare legislation. I don't think individual states could do this successfully without getting overwhelmed by people from other states moving there just because of the drug policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_po...he_Netherlands

This paper on the drug policy of Britain has interesting conclusions. You can find them under Policy Implications on p.10 where it says that cultural differences may account for the lower rates of drug use in Sweden and the Netherlands. Which means that people in this country need to look at themselves and their own feelings about drug use and how it affects youth.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...QLO9N6DXOvQ5uQ

Personally, I don't think that across the board legalization of all drugs will be any cheaper than what we are doing now. We have problems now with legal drugs being stolen and sold on the street. I don't see the anti-drug PSA's on TV the way they were about 5 years ago. They were addressed to teenagers and some offered useful information. Across-the-board legalization suggests to some people who like to think simply that they aren't dangerous. Legalization should mean regulation which is just a different form of policing. And ultimately the goal should be to get people off drugs or on some sort of maintenance program.

[Johnlodge]

I don't think individual states could do this successfully without getting overwhelmed by people from other states moving there just because of the drug policy.

I know a state that could use some of that.

[maxx]

I don't think of drug addicts as contributing members of society.

[Bigb23]

The CIA has no problem delivering drugs to society, when it's to their Black Ops advantage. The movie below has some real eye opening interviews about the drug war for the past 80 years. By all means, check it out of your local library.


American drug war [videorecording on DVD]
Publisher, Date: [United States] : Sacred Cow Productions, 2008.
Summary: Texas filmmaker Kevin Booth sets out to discover why the drug war has become such a big failure. The film follows gang members, former DEA agents, CIA officers, narcotics officers, judges, politicians, prisoners, and celebrities. Includes over 3 hours of never-before-seen mini-documentaries.

As for me, legalize marijuana, and use some of the proceeds for hard drug rehabilitation. And the money saved from the DEA and privately owned prisons should go to health care.

[ggores]

I don't think of drug addicts as contributing members of society.

Hell, I don't think of half the damn population of the UNited States as contributing members of society. But be that as it may, and it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, so long as various sorts of non-presscription drugs are criminalized, then many people in America will continue to remain in a pickle, and will go to jail. And then when the jail gets too crowded, another can be built. And then more people in pickles can go to jail. Hell, everything is against the law, one day it might even be illegal to smoke a damn cigarette. In the comfort of your own home. But be THAT as it may, I too beliEve the so-called drug war is one of the great farces of this modern era and many many many have died in vain as a result.

[maxx]

Hell, I don't think of half the damn population of the UNited States as contributing members of society. But be that as it may, and it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, so long as various sorts of non-presscription drugs are criminalized, then many people in America will continue to remain in a pickle, and will go to jail. And then when the jail gets too crowded, another can be built. And then more people in pickles can go to jail. Hell, everything is against the law, one day it might even be illegal to smoke a damn cigarette. In the comfort of your own home. But be THAT as it may, I too beliEve the so-called drug war is one of the great farces of this modern era and many many many have died in vain as a result.

But you aren't offering any solutions. It's very easy to criticize.

[gazhekwe]

Yes. [[succinct but not long enough to post)

[ggores]

But you aren't offering any solutions. It's very easy to criticize.

Oy. Fair enough.

Each individual reacts differently to any substance. Many people can function completely civilized and in a contributing way while on whatever kind of dope it is that their body and mind can handle and be in agreement with. I can't take Iron, makes me feel weird, can't really drink soda pop, makes my shoulders ache, motrins work really good for 99% of my ill's [[Ok, these are not drugs per se, but I'm really not into blathering all my nasty habits across the ether). So, you see, there's a wide variety of concotions available, both natural and synthetic, that would probably make many many people OK in American society. Legalization of marijuana seems to be OK with the vast majority of Americans, so let's call that a no-brainer. Far as opiates, synthetics, etc., there really should be medical reasons for prescribing anything from smack to cocaine. Unfortunately, at least in Michigan, what used to be "mental health care" in which patients WERE prescribed some pretty whack stuff, well, that system was all but demolished a few years back and replaced by.... ta da - jail cells. So I guess my solution would be a regulated decriminalization of all drugs. And to boot, I don't really like the way America is being medicated by "legal prescription drugs". But that's another topic, the pharmeceuticals that is. Carry on.

[Detroitnerd]

Of all the sentimental errors which reign and rage in this incomparable republic, the worst, I often suspect, is that which confuses the function of criticism, whether aesthetic, political or social, with the function of reform. Almost invariably it takes the form of a protest: "The fellow condemns without offering anything better. Why tear down without building up?" So coo and snivel the sweet ones: so wags the national tongue. ... It is impossible to get an audience for an idea that is not "constructive" -- i.e., that is not glib and uplifting and full of hope, and hence capable of tickling the emotions by leaping the intermediate barrier of the intelligence. ... The way to please is to proclaim in a confident manner, not what is true, but what is merely comforting. This is what is called "building up." This is "constructive criticism." --H.L. Mencken

[Ray1936]

Yes, we have to make marijuana legal, but we must stop these criminals who smoke tobacco. Harsh prison terms for them, I say!!!

[Jimaz]

I believe the cultivation, trade and use of all natural, unrefined drugs should be decriminalized for adults even for recreational use. Their use should be discouraged similarly to the way tobacco is discouraged today. If these drugs were decriminalized I would still choose not to use them myself. Until they are decriminalized I have no objection to their use in my presence.

In a philosophical sense I believe it is fundamentally wrong to put government in opposition to nature. To do so undermines the legitimacy of government in perhaps a small but nevertheless fundamental way. In short, it's unnatural in much the same way that regarding corporations as legal persons and money as legal speech is unnatural.

"Soft" drugs historically inherited much of their stigma from "hard" opiates. Drugs were not always illegal.

Total duration 43 minutes, The History Channel's "Illegal Drugs & How They Got That Way":

• Part 1/3
• Part 2/3
• Part 3/3

[Blarf]

Legalize some drugs, decriminalize ALL drugs.

I still don't understand why someone should be punished for putting something into their own bodies. Criminalizing things that aren't real crimes does nothing to solve the actual problem.

[leatherchick]

I agree that marijuana should be legalized. Look at how many people have died, or are mentally incapacitated because of overdosing on over the counter drugs. How often do you hear of marijuana causing problems such as these?

[maxx]

Legalize some drugs, decriminalize ALL drugs.

I still don't understand why someone should be punished for putting something into their own bodies. Criminalizing things that aren't real crimes does nothing to solve the actual problem.

If you're going to permit people to take drugs that cause paranoia, hallucinations, and other mental issues, then you should arrange places where they can take them without doing harm to others. We have enough problems with drunk drivers now. And most hard drug addicts cannot keep jobs which means they can't afford the drugs they need. So should the rest of us then just pay for the drugs? There is also a problem now with teens drinking cough syrup or mixing it with alcohol. I don't know if anyone knows the size of the U.S. drug subculture. I would guess that teenage drug taking goes along with the fact that both parents work in many families today so that kids don't see much of their parents.

[ggores]

If you're going to permit people to take drugs that cause paranoia, hallucinations, and other mental issues, then you should arrange places where they can take them without doing harm to others.

These types of places already exist and are called things like "sub division", "gated community", etc. Still gotta watch your back though! :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subdivision_[[land)

[MCP-001]

I'm of the opinion that consenting adult should be free to put whatever they want into their own bodies.

On the flip-side, those same consenting adults are also responsible for their own actions after doing so.

So if someone is killed, injured or in some other way wronged, don't think that you can get our of a harsh sentence by claiming to be under the influence.

[Detroitnerd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

History

In 2001, Portugal became the first European country to abolish all criminal penalties for personal drug possession. In addition, drug users were to be targeted with therapy rather than prison sentences.[6]
Regulation

Individuals found in possession of small quantities of drugs are issued summons. The drugs are confiscated, and the suspect is interviewed by a dissuasion commission including a civil servant, a psychiatrist, and an attorney.[7][8]
Drug trafficking remains illegal and is prosecuted.[7]
Results

A study by Glenn Greenwald [[commissioned by the libertarian Cato Institute) found that in the five years after the start of decriminalization, illegal drug use by teenagers had declined, the rate of HIV infections among drug users had dropped, deaths related to heroin and similar drugs had been cut by more than half, and the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction had doubled, while usage in the EU continued to increase, including in states with "hard-line drug policies."[3]
Since Portugal's policy reform in 2001, the rates of overdoses and HIV cases have been reduced significantly.[9][10][11]

[Blarf]

If you're going to permit people to take drugs that cause paranoia, hallucinations, and other mental issues, then you should arrange places where they can take them without doing harm to others. We have enough problems with drunk drivers now. And most hard drug addicts cannot keep jobs which means they can't afford the drugs they need. So should the rest of us then just pay for the drugs? There is also a problem now with teens drinking cough syrup or mixing it with alcohol. I don't know if anyone knows the size of the U.S. drug subculture. I would guess that teenage drug taking goes along with the fact that both parents work in many families today so that kids don't see much of their parents.

Ehh, I would say the main problem with the U.S. drug sub-culture is prohibition. The drug laws tend to create more problems than they solve. A few bad apples who can't handle their buzz shouldn't ruin it for the rest of us.

[sumas]

I pondered this question for more than a few days. Drugs should be decriminalized. Europes approach is way more sophisticated than ours.

Jail is not an answer at all. Prevention and cures would cost far less.

[GOAT]

Mj should be legalized but all other hard drugs? No way. As it is drug abusers cost us all with increased crime rates in all categories. Why let them have free reign because they can't keep junk out of their system?