Why should I stay in Detroit?

[Tig3rzhark]

As a lifetime resident of Detroit, I'm well aware of the difficulties of living here in a city that's comparable to hell itself.

Finding better jobs is difficult and population is being lost fast. The city government and public schools are national embarrassments. The public transportation system here is laughable, and they don't call Detroit: The Motor City for nothing. If you don't have a car, good luck getting around.

Our current mayor, Bing, said it best that it would take a long time for the city to rise from the ashes. Each day I ride my bike, I can see it.

We all can see it. The world can see it.

Those that are able to leave, are leaving. The jobs and money are leaving with them.

I'm considering leaving too. Finding a Information Technology job, here in the metro Detroit area has been difficult, and living a life as a multi-modal commuter that has a medical restriction on my driver's licence, living in a city that has high insurance rates on auto, and having to wait 25 years for the metropolitan area to make up their mind on making things easier for those that can ill-afford to commute by car.

Portland, Oregon is a city that has learned to provide first-class public transportation, as well as obtained a Platinum rating from the League of American Bicyclists. I think that Detroit has a lot to learn from them.

Detroit doesn't even have a rating. We only have 52 bus with bike racks on them. SMART is the only transit authority that fully accommodates bicyclists in the metro Detroit area.

I ask this question because I'm considering moving to Portland in hopes to live independently without the need of a car. My medical restriction could become permanent, and it would be harder for me to prosper here in Detroit.


I look forward to your responses.

[Patrick]

I like your honesty and you certainly aren't sugar-coating things. The fact remains that the region will continue to lose hundreds, if not thousands, of people like you to other regions of the country. Everyday seems to be a struggle in the city for most people and that makes other places look a whole lot more welcoming. Greener pastures await for most if they are able and willing to leave it all behind. Are you really leaving much behind?

There will be some Detroit “die-hards” on this site that will say things like “don’t let the door hit ya on the ass on the way out.” But really, the joke certainly isn’t on you because you are taking your skills and talents as well as motivation elsewhere. Sadly, there aren’t many places to apply your particular skill-set in this region.

People have been saying that things will get worse before they get better and that still seems to be the case in Detroit. Nothing has changed for the good, unless you count token trophy projects that some people latch all their hopes and dreams onto. In the end, you have to worry about yourself before a city. You have to worry about your own livelihood and your future first and sadly, it seems that you have to leave in order to make that happen.

[EastSider]

If moving is in your best interests, I have only one thing to say: Enjoy Portland!

[mwilbert]

I think Detroit is a pretty good city for bicycling, but it isn't so good for people who can't drive at all. People who need to commute are the most disadvantaged as relatively little of the employment is transit-friendly. If you can't drive and need to work, you are probably sensible to think about moving.

Portland is a nice place and is pretty much the opposite of metro Detroit in terms of urban planning, but partly because it has a reputation of being nice it attracts people who have no concrete reason for being there, and consequently generally has high unemployment, though not so high as Detroit.. If I wanted to be car-free and employed, I might look a different city. If I especially liked Portland, I would go there anyway and take my chances. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[R8RBOB]

"T", I know your pain. I too work in the IT industry and I was out of a work for a long time. I found another position but it is not permanent and the rug could be pulled at any time.

That said, if I could leave Detroit.......strike that.....if I could afford to leave Detroit, I would. Not because I don't like Detroit because I love Detroit. It is the city of my birth and the majority of my life was spent here, however, my time in Northern California made me realize that we lack a number of things. I would love for Detroit to be on par with Chicago but as long as we are competing against our own suburbs we will remain in the same shape we are in right now.

When I lived in Cali, I prided myself being a Detroit booster. People outside of Michigan only hear the negative when it comes to Detroit and I would always say naw Detroit isn't like that. One day, I was having a conversation with a co-worker and she commented on "why would she have any reason to go to Detroit?" After thinking about it, I understood her mindset and she is not the only one. No one wants to come here and it is not because it is a Black city or we have high crime. It just that they don't need to when you have Chicago on the other side of the lake. I wished that was not true but it is.

[jjw]

You only live once. Do what makes you happier.

[Bearinabox]

Next time someone calls transit "frivolous" or "a waste of money," I'm linking them to this thread.

[epiphany]

I know how you feel. I have been relying on my bike and the terrible public transportation system here for too long. Any of the jobs that have been available to me have been too difficult to get to because public transportation is only reliable sometimes. I want to buy a car [[because mine was stolen and wrecked) but the insurance rates would prevent me from being able to afford driving it. I too, am considering moving to Portland or some other equally progressive city when I am finished with college courses. I stayed for as long as I did with hopes that it would get better, but instead of getting better it got worse and now I am in a terrible financial predicament. I came here able to support myself and now I have to rely on others for a place to live... and I only see it getting worse. I think that anyone with the ability to leave should. I know that I plan on it... If I can even afford to do so. Portland's public transportation system ranks as one of the best in the country. The cost of living is also reasonable compared to other places on the West coast. If only Detroit could focus on these things...

Also, if you do leave be sure to write about your experiences.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Tig3rzhark, you should leave. In fact, if I didn't foolishly buy a house in the city limits right before the whole housing bubble burst I would leave too. However, it is not the high crime, unemployment, bad schools, lack of mass transit, taxes, cost of insurance, or poor leadership that I would leave to escape. I'd leave to escape the enormous negativity in this region. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, suburbanite, city resident, conservative, liberal, Christian, atheist, welfare recipient, entrepreneur, renter or home buyer, every group seems to really have a negative feeling around Detroit.

I sometimes hang out on www.city-data.com because they have forums for all the major cities in the country. I never see the enormous negativity on their boards for Cleveland, Boston, St. Lois, New Orleans, or other cities that are struggling as I see for Detroit. If everyone has nothing but negative feelings about the area how can it ever be turned around? First someone has to feel like Detroit is worth saving, which few [[residents and suburbanites alike, so save any divisive response) seem to believe. That means the only way Detroit could ever possibly recover is due to complete collapse. Why wait around for that? If you have options to move to a region where people are positive and optimistic [[regardless of the reason why) then you should move there. Detroit has a long way to go and I don't foresee it getting there in our lifetime.

[gazhekwe]

Portland is a good place. A lot of it is walkable as well as bikeable, and the transit seems adequate to get around. There are probably other good places, but the key is IT employ jobs. How does Portland rate there?

They keep talking about increasing IT systems around here, but you could get old waiting for it.

[canuck]

Next time someone calls transit "frivolous" or "a waste of money," I'm linking them to this thread.

So un-untrue!

I'm sure if we looked at a list of things that turned Detroit into a ghetto, and I mean ghetto as an area that looks inward instead of outward; the major disabler of mobility and opportunity would be lack of proper transit vs overabundance of highway infrastructure. I think Los Angeles and DC and other major cities copped on to the importance of transit structures to offset the danger of further ghettoization. Places like East LA were surrounded by freeways and cut off from neigborhoods the way Detroit has for a long time. Those cities now benefit from more not less interaction because segregation starts and ends in physical spaces. When I first looked at Wayne State through the filter of Google maps street view, I noticed how little street action there was. When I read the latest threads on Wayne State's use of space after annexing property to its campus; the demolition of commercial buildings and eventual disintegration into convenient green spaces, I was appalled at the lack of judgement. But I guess these folks know what they are doing, dismantling potential commerce and street activity seems like a goal; not an unfortunate outcome. There is a reluctance and resistance to street activity and pedestrian traffic in Detroit planning that defies all logic. So, I understand Tig3rzhark's ideal of moving to Portland and enjoying an environment that has done a lot to correct the errors of its past. Also, remember that property values in Portland are very high, a lot of speculation followed some very expensive restructuring of the city. But it certainly shows that investing in the right infrastructure attracts investment not waiting for the other way around...

[skyl4rk]

You might want to look at Grand Rapids. It is walkable, has a decent bus system, they are trying hard to improve bicycle friendliness, and there is a lot of positive vibe going on. Its not Detroit but its not that far away. It probably has better employment opportunities than Portland, OR.

[LeannaM]

I sometimes hang out on www.city-data.com because they have forums for all the major cities in the country. I never see the enormous negativity on their boards for Cleveland, Boston, St. Lois, New Orleans, or other cities that are struggling as I see for Detroit. If everyone has nothing but negative feelings about the area how can it ever be turned around? First someone has to feel like Detroit is worth saving, which few [[residents and suburbanites alike, so save any divisive response) seem to believe. That means the only way Detroit could ever possibly recover is due to complete collapse. Why wait around for that? If you have options to move to a region where people are positive and optimistic [[regardless of the reason why) then you should move there. Detroit has a long way to go and I don't foresee it getting there in our lifetime.

St. Louis has its share of negativity, especially from Suburbanites. However, there are positive feelings as well. urbanstl is really a more informative forum than city-data is, though city-data does have its own merit. Part of the problem with St. Louis is fighting between the city and suburbs. That said, I don't think the fighting is as bad as it once was. St. Louis has seen a lot of good things happen since the 1990s, though it is certainly far from perfect. I'm sure people were more negative about the city twenty years ago than they are today. Still, any metro has its share of sour attitudes, especially in the farthest-out suburbs I think.

Any rust belt city is going to have its share of negativity I think, because most rust belt cities [[except for Chicago) have suffered white flight and higher crime and all the things that go along with it. As people moved away from the city and the city population declined, people in the suburbs and around the country began to get worse and worse opinions of the cities. It's hard turn change those opinions. It can take a long time and a lot of improvement.

As to the OP. You have to live wherever you are happy and employed. No city is perfect, of course. You just have to weigh the pros and cons of any city you choose.

[daddeeo]

No one else is going to pay your taxes or other bills. Go where you feel comfortable and safe. As far as being negative, there's good reason for being negative.

[BrushStart]

I think you should maybe stay, and here's why:

1. Surroundings count for a lot, but they are not everything. I mean no disrespect when I say that sometimes when people are dissatisfied at a deeper level they often blame it on external factors. If you are truly unhappy, you will find something that will disappoint you no matter how nice your new city is. What I'm trying to say is, make sure this city is the true source of your angst before you buy your plane ticket.

2. Not all of Detroit is the same. I don't know where you live in the city, but I live downtown and feel relatively insulated from what I watch on the evening news. If you love this place, try a change of scenery before jetting 3,000 miles away. Most of my neighbors are very positive and are optimistic about things happening in Detroit. I enjoy what some call "token trophy projects" on a daily basis because I choose to live near them.

3. While I believe Detroit's population is likely to continue to decline, this doesn't mean that the city will get worse. In fact, I think it could get better. If resources are more intelligently concentrated, certain parts of Detroit could easily become much more vibrant, while others could be shuttered all together. This is actually Bing's vision, and I think it has merit.

4. As almost everyone has recognized, Metro Detroit is at a crossroads, leaders know that the entire region is struggling because of a lack of cooperation and people's perception of the region. I think serious regional cooperation is a lot closer than people think. It took a while for the suburbs to get hit with population flight, abandonment, and economic hardship, but now that people's pocketbooks are getting hit, people with investments here are going to pull inward to stop the bleeding. This will very likely include improving Detroit's core.

5. While the job market here is poor [[and I know nothing about IT), there are opportunities here for those who are innovative, entrepreneurial, and willing to be creative. There is a lot of money to be made in Detroit if you can figure out where your skill set or services fit in.

6. Yes, mass transit is lousy, but hopefully, this will be changing before the end of the decade. *Fingers crossed*

7. Detroit gives you something to root for. Small advances do not go unappreciated. Personally, I enjoy standing in the corner of the underdog. It is exciting, and can give you a purpose in life. You are one of the die-hards that refuses to give up. You can be that perpetual resilience that people see and say "damn, that city just refuses to die." But, if you are going to stay, do it for yourself, not for Detroit. There are plenty of us who will be here holding down the fort. Enjoy your life, wherever you live.

[iheartthed]

If you're waiting on transportation priorities in and around Detroit to change... Then my advice is for you to run to Portland. Pack your bags and leave as soon as humanly possible.

When I left Michigan there were these promises of a commuter train line linking Ann Arbor with Detroit, and a stop along the way linking both cities to the airport. Such a service seems pretty elementary for a metropolitan area the size of Metro Detroit. It's what they teach in the 2nd week of Managing Large Metropolitan Area 101. But most metropolitan areas the size of Detroit aren't dying either [[in part due to its own volition). Five years later and you've still got no train.

You never know what the future may bring, but I have no reason to believe that Detroit's promises about improved transit services are any less half-hearted today than they have been at any other point during the past 60 years. The odds are that we will look up in 10 or 20 years and the Detroit area will likely still be a stagnant and/or declining region. This will be in large part because the Detroit area has a habit of electing a bunch of lame ass politicians.

[mpow]

Very good post by brushstart talking about the small trophy projects.

Detroit is ALL imagination and you can do anything you want. The slate is clean. I think it is quickly becoming the capital of mini-entrepreneurship--businesses within reach that would be otherwise impossible in other more expensive cities. The advantages of working in scaled down communities in a large urban environment, all feeling and making the buzz. Detroit is NOW. Try not to think think in terms of when, this will allow you to cope better.

[Pam]

I was just in Portland a month ago visiting family. I don't know how good the transit is since they drove us everywhere. Housing costs are lower here. Detroit has more sports teams if you care about that sort of thing. The DIA is better than the art museum there.

You should definitely spend some time out there and see if you like it before you make a move.

[GOAT]

mpow hits it right. The NOW is the only thing that needs to be looked at. Sorry to hear that your having a tough go looking for a job. If you find one elsewhere then obviously go for it. But if you have the $$ to wait then I would suggest just that.

Where I live they have promised everything froman urban village to a canal and I can say neither will probably come of it. But my neighbourhood, my proximity in the downtown makes my life a much more enjoyable thing. But only you can do what is best for you. Just don't wait for things to happen...live in the now.

[d'oh]

<<in large part because the Detroit area has a habit of electing a bunch of lame ass politicians.>>

so true......

[swingline]

Good post from Brushstart. He reflects the views of legions of Detroiters. Yet we all understand that our city has enormous problems, many of our own making. No victimhood claims allowed here.

The truth is though that there are lots of us in Detroit, city and suburbs, that live, raise families, and grow old in dynamic communities. Certainly the grass will be greener somewhere else for lots of people, but we should all object to any attempt paint this region's problems to broadly or harshly. Despite the issues in the city itself, it is not that difficult to find livable neighborhoods and an uplifting community life. Yes, it takes effort and maybe a failed attempt or two. But success at finding such a life doesn't just magically appear as soon as you land in Chicago, Portland, LA, Austin etc. either.

Employment, of course, almost always comes first. If one can't find it here, the prudent choice is probably to leave. But I wish fewer of those leaving for employment reasons were embellishing their departure rationalizations with false descriptions of post-apocalyptic life in Detroit. The truth too often suffers within ex-pat's therapeutic needs for self-justification of their decisions to leave.

[Hamtragedy]

One doesn't necessarily have to embellish their rationalization for leaving Detroit with false descriptions of post-apocalyptic life in Detroit. A drive almost anywhere south of the Ford on the east-side from downtown to Alter Rd. is as factual as you can get, unless, of course, you don't drive.

A weekend trip to Chicago or Toronto or to Portland can give you rose colored goggles. Seeing people out in the neighborhoods, large numbers or not, utilizing local business and merchants makes the kool-aid taste even better. If you're fortunate or adventurous enough to experience their functioning mass-transit, then you realize that it's utilized by throngs of people, including females, from all cultures and classes, who are forced to interact cordially [[or at least civilly), then your feelings about Detroit really become dissappointing.

If you get to spend more than a weekend in these places, you will see this phenomenon on a daily basis. Of course, this is not every neighborhood [[not talking about downtowns) in every functioning city, but you know what, you can at least get to those neighborhoods without a car.

Finally, as life-long Detroiter and DPS grad, the Detroit "turn-around" our parents got tired of waiting for actually happened. It was about 8-10 years ago, and as quickly as it happened, poof, it vanished, and now it's worse than ever. Tiger, if you wanna wait around for the next re-birth, it's a long time in the making, and the bottom re-defines itself almost daily. Do it now. You're not getting any younger.

[fryar]

Tigershark, if it makes sense for you to leave, then leave. Kudos to you for your hesitancy to abandon Detroit, but nothing is served by you hanging around twiddling your thumbs waiting for the renaissance.

It doesn't have to be forever, either. Being in a place with a dynamic economy and expanding IT departments will allow you to be more specialized in what you want to do and add to your skillset, instead of lusting after every $20/hr temp job that comes along that you may be totally overqualified for. Assuming there is a renaissance [[sic), you would be a more valuable asset if you chose to return.

Get the heck on outta here. And mind the door. ;-)

[kryptonite]

T, don't hesitate to investigate another city and make a move if you think it makes sense. The worst that could happen is that you would not be happy wherever. I moved to Nashville in 1995 and spent two weekends there well in advance and researched all I could about it. But after moving there I hated living there. For five years I hated it, so I took an IT job here in 2000 and moved back. I have been very happy to be back in the Detroit area.

Everyone's experience is different, it never hurts to try living elsewhere. Often it makes you realize that you miss where you were terribly, other times you end up making a better life somewhere else.

Detroit is not hell, it is not heaven. The same is true for Portland or any other city. Every place has it's advantages and it's disadvantages. Personally I think we have many of both, I'm happy here but many people are glad to leave Detroit area.

[English]

Finally, as life-long Detroiter and DPS grad, the Detroit "turn-around" our parents got tired of waiting for actually happened. It was about 8-10 years ago, and as quickly as it happened, poof, it vanished, and now it's worse than ever. Tiger, if you wanna wait around for the next re-birth, it's a long time in the making, and the bottom re-defines itself almost daily. Do it now. You're not getting any younger.

Agreed. Also agree with fryar that you can always come back after living somewhere else. That's what I did.