Detroit 2nd Deadliest City for Pedestrians

[ruxy17]

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/09/08/...r-pedestrians/

With 10.31 pedestrian deaths annual [[per 100,000 residents), Detroit comes in at the second deadliest city in the world for walkers, after Atlanta and just before L.A.

also, according to Time, Detroit has less than 100,000 residents. mmmmk.

[DetroitPole]

I e-mailed them. That is pretty common knowledge. The press in this country is total shit.

[Novine]

Someone at Time needs to be educated on why streets are deadly for pedestrians. They stupidly note that it's unbelievable that a city of 13 million like Tokyo is safer for pedestrians than Detroit which has less than a million. Get a clue Time. The denser the city, the more people who walk, the more that pedestrians are going to be able to walk safely and in numbers. It's the wide-open streets of places like Detroit and the suburbs that are hostile and deadly to pedestrians. That's why Atlanta is #1 and New York City is #13.

[daddeeo]

I've never seen so many people walk in the middle of the street like Detroit.
Do they think they're back down south in Mayberry?

[iheartthed]

Someone at Time needs to be educated on why streets are deadly for pedestrians. They stupidly note that it's unbelievable that a city of 13 million like Tokyo is safer for pedestrians than Detroit which has less than a million. Get a clue Time. The denser the city, the more people who walk, the more that pedestrians are going to be able to walk safely and in numbers. It's the wide-open streets of places like Detroit and the suburbs that are hostile and deadly to pedestrians. That's why Atlanta is #1 and New York City is #13.

I wonder why Time has someone writing about statistics who clearly doesn't understand statistics.

But you are right, though I do think there is a tipping point where being less dense begins to work in favor of the statistical safety for pedestrians [[because so few people walk anywhere in those places).

Of the top 11 cities by population in the U.S., Detroit is #11 by population but comes in at #5 when ranked by density. And those top 5 cities are listed in inverse order on the pedestrian danger list. None of the other top 11 cities with densities lower than Detroit even make the pedestrian danger...


Top 11 cities by population:
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Houston
Phoenix
Philadelphia
San Antonio
San Diego
Dallas
San Jose
Detroit

Top 11 cities by population listed by density:
New York [[rank by population 1)
Chicago [[3)
Philadelphia [[6)
Los Angeles [[2)
Detroit [[11)
San Jose [[10)
San Diego [[8)
Houston [[4)
Dallas [[9)
Phoenix [[5)
San Antonio [[7)

[DetroitScooter]

A huge part of it is how pedestrians behave in this town. They cross anywhere, at any time and think that dozens of cars will just stop for them [[I guess). I've never seen anything like it.

[iheartthed]

A huge part of it is how pedestrians behave in this town. They cross anywhere, at any time and think that dozens of cars will just stop for them [[I guess). I've never seen anything like it.

No, a huge part of it is how fast the car is going.

[Trumpeteer]

I've never seen so many people walk in the middle of the street like Detroit.
Do they think they're back down south in Mayberry?

No they think they're in Detroit

[Bearinabox]

I've never seen so many people walk in the middle of the street like Detroit.
Do they think they're back down south in Mayberry?

I think it's a fairly rational and predictable response to conditions in many parts of the city. We have far more space allocated to car traffic in this town than we have actual cars. We also don't do the greatest job of maintaining our sidewalks, or of making sure that they're safe, well-lit, and not overgrown.

The guy I saw jogging up the parking lane of Woodward south of Seven Mile the other day, for example, might've observed that nobody else was using that lane for much of anything, had trouble finding a good jogging path in the immediate area, and figured his use for that space was as legitimate as anybody else's. That's what happens in a shrinking city--many things are no longer needed for their original purpose, and if the city doesn't come up with adaptive reuses [[bike lanes, say) you get a kind of anarchy where everyone just appropriates them as they see fit.

It's not easy to convince people to abide by rules when there's no clear reason for them to do so. I mean, if you were trying to explain to the Woodward jogging guy [[who was not disrupting traffic, since nobody ever uses that lane anyway) why what he did there was a problem, what would you say? Would you ask him if he thinks he's in Mayberry? Would you expect him to question or change his behavior as a result of you asking him that?

[Caseyc]

this thread fits well with some of the Complete Streets discussion.

[iheartthed]

The guy I saw jogging up the parking lane of Woodward south of Seven Mile the other day, for example, might've observed that nobody else was using that lane for much of anything, had trouble finding a good jogging path in the immediate area, and figured his use for that space was as legitimate as anybody else's. That's what happens in a shrinking city--many things are no longer needed for their original purpose, and if the city doesn't come up with adaptive reuses [[bike lanes, say) you get a kind of anarchy where everyone just appropriates them as they see fit.

Not just shrinking cities either. Here in NYC I jog in the street as opposed to jogging on the sidewalk, and so do many others. And bikes? I believe it's illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk for more than a block. Streets are solely meant for cars.

[bartock]

A huge part of it is how pedestrians behave in this town. They cross anywhere, at any time and think that dozens of cars will just stop for them [[I guess). I've never seen anything like it.

I have. L.A. is like that.

[Hypestyles]

more bike paths needed, more transit lines needed..

[fryar]

Detroit surely is not the 5th-densest city.

[iheartthed]

Detroit surely is not the 5th-densest city.

Please read carefully...

[ferntruth]

I've never seen so many people walk in the middle of the street like Detroit.
Do they think they're back down south in Mayberry?

It's spreading into the suburbs [[at least I've noticed it in Ferndale,Oak park and Southfield). I fInd that speeding up, laying on the horn and MAKING THEM move works great. For the ones who want to challenge, flinging the remains of my beverage at them helps to.

The sidewalks exist - use them.

[Bearinabox]

It's spreading into the suburbs [[at least I've noticed it in Ferndale,Oak park and Southfield). I fInd that speeding up, laying on the horn and MAKING THEM move works great. For the ones who want to challenge, flinging the remains of my beverage at them helps to.

The sidewalks exist - use them.

Wow, you are an asshole.

[wolverine]

I'm actually surprised Detroit is so high ranked. It's almost an everyday occurrence that I see someone almost get run over by a car. So for all the "almosts" there at least has to be more people getting hit.

The near hits always happen when hundreds of pedestrians jaywalk when traffic has a green arrow. The train of cars don't stop and people nearly get grazed by the mirrors.

While, I don't own a car and walk everywhere. I do believe in priority. In the case of Chicago, cars have priority midblock whereas pedestrians have priority at intersections. I'm not saying right-of-way, because that is only granted by traffic signals where I live. Laws vary quite a bit in different states.

[Al Publican]

...until '03 when I left Mich. I grew up around Denby High on the NE side and lived in Corktown for ten years during the '90s. Detroiters all too often walk around with an aversion to sidewalks and traffic lights. I used to see young people walk down the middle of Gratiot and Van Dyke in traffic as if it was the norm.

It's not just careless pedestrian thing in Detroit. Folks have fires in their homes from cooking late at night from disregarding what is on the stove and they roll right through red lights without stopping, and all too often run red lights straight away. Then there is there thing with dicking around with guns.

In America it seems the poorer the people, the more disregard there is for personal safety.

[tangerine]

There is generally in our region a shocking disregard for pedestrian rights. A pedestrian in a cross walk has the right of way provided that he enters the cross walk while vehicles are reasonably far away. I often experiment with this in and and around Birmingham, especially the cross walk on Woodward between Maple and Lincoln.

I would estimate that the rate of compliance among motorists is under 10%. This means than 90% do not yeild for the pedestrian [[me) in the crosswalk, as they are required to do under state law.

I think this is a very unflattering aspect of our regional culture.

[JimminyCricket]

A huge part of it is how pedestrians behave in this town. They cross anywhere, at any time and think that dozens of cars will just stop for them [[I guess). I've never seen anything like it.

People in all cities jaywalk, etc.

The difference is that Detroit has streets that are poorly-designed for pedestrians. For one thing, they are WAY too wide for the amount of traffic they carry, which just encourages dangerous speeding.

[JimminyCricket]

By contrast, Montreal, a city of more than 1.6 million people, has had ZERO pedestrian deaths this year:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...estrian-deaths

[Zacha341]

Yes, some of this is due to pedestrian carelessness and talk about really "scary" is the persons in wheel chairs, nearly in the middle of street in dark clothing!!

I am amazed at how few people in wheel chairs USE the side walks despite the handicapped accessible side walk slopping provided... and all of the legislation enacted back in the 80s to install slopped access along side walks.

Perhaps for the electric chairs the grading of the sidewalk depletes batter power faster and the all flat street car lane is a power conserving option. Crazy. I've seen persons in wheel chairs weaving in and out in the right 'car' lane of Woodward in rush hour! Oblivious to busses and cars attempting to circumvent them...

I nearly hit a woman in an electric wheel chair on Grand River downtown coming from around a blind spot directly into the right car drivers lane who was literally 'reading' a book as she went along.... Oblivious to cars trying to circumvent her late evening with a sun going down before the street lights were on. She could barely be seen!

Dangerous for the wheel chair bound person and very stressful for drivers!

A huge part of it is how pedestrians behave in this town. They cross anywhere, at any time and think that dozens of cars will just stop for them [[I guess). I've never seen anything like it.

[Zacha341]

It's wild. I've seen women walk children right into the middle of major streets, toddlers, strollers and all... standing in the middle turn lanes, waiting for a gap in traffic, so as to run across. With a pedestrian crosswalk and light nearby, ignored.

And yet there are people more distracted than ever driving. I was almost hit 'walking' from into a CVS this summer by a mobile phone 'yackin' driver. It was cigarette paper close. He almost broadsided me with his vehicle.

I'm actually surprised Detroit is so high ranked. It's almost an everyday occurrence that I see someone almost get run over by a car. So for all the "almosts" there at least has to be more people getting hit.

The near hits always happen when hundreds of pedestrians jaywalk when traffic has a green arrow. The train of cars don't stop and people nearly get grazed by the mirrors.

While, I don't own a car and walk everywhere. I do believe in priority. In the case of Chicago, cars have priority midblock whereas pedestrians have priority at intersections. I'm not saying right-of-way, because that is only granted by traffic signals where I live. Laws vary quite a bit in different states.

[LeannaM]

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/09/08/...r-pedestrians/

With 10.31 pedestrian deaths annual [[per 100,000 residents), Detroit comes in at the second deadliest city in the world for walkers, after Atlanta and just before L.A.

also, according to Time, Detroit has less than 100,000 residents. mmmmk.

My guess is somebody forgot a comma and a zero.

I live near a town of 20,000. I'm surprised people don't get hit more than they do. The four-lane highway runs through town [[the town is kind of built along the highway) and there are no crosswalks or anything. It's a very small town so there's no public transit, either. Very pedestrian unfriendly.