Jackson Blasts Urban Farming

DetroitPole · September-07-10, 05:37 PM

Of course, the Freep is skimpy on details...and...information.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...SUV-in-Detroit

Foolish? What are his ideas?

I guess my question is: Is he referring to large-scale urban farms that could displace residents, or the stuff we have going on already? If he is referring to both, my question is, is he that stupid?

What the hell else are we supposed to be doing here, revren'? Just sitting here with our thumbs up our asses waiting for auto jobs to magically reappear?

DC48080 · September-07-10, 05:49 PM

Ecnomically, urban farms are NOT going to revive Detroit. Just look at all of the large [[hundreds of acres) farms outstate and throughout the country that are going belly up. And many of these have been in the same family for several generations.

How does anybody think that farms in the middle of the ghetto, and possibly on contaminated land, will be economically viable to sustain a single family let alone revive the city?

This is probably the only thing that The Rev-er-and Jacksonnn has said that makes sense.

DetroitPole · September-07-10, 06:37 PM

There is no magic bullet that is going to save Detroit.

However, Detroiters growing their own food, selling it to fellow Detroiters who often have little access to healthy food, and making a little profit is NOT "foolish".

Even if he was referring to a venture similar to Hantz, he is being irresponsible and minimalizing the efforts of the small scale urban farmers and garderners in Detroit who do the city a great service.

LodgeDodger · September-07-10, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

There is no magic bullet that is going to save Detroit.

However, Detroiters growing their own food, selling it to fellow Detroiters who often have little access to healthy food, and making a little profit is NOT "foolish".

Even if he was referring to a venture similar to Hantz, he is being irresponsible and minimalizing the efforts of the small scale urban farmers and garderners in Detroit who do the city a great service.

Amen.

Jackson is an ass.

DC48080 · September-07-10, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

There is no magic bullet that is going to save Detroit.

However, Detroiters growing their own food, selling it to fellow Detroiters who often have little access to healthy food, and making a little profit is NOT "foolish".

Even if he was referring to a venture similar to Hantz, he is being irresponsible and minimalizing the efforts of the small scale urban farmers and garderners in Detroit who do the city a great service.

Perhaps. But I grow weary of the Pollyanna types who think that growing carrots in the ghetto will do for the city what the auto industry did a hundred years ago.

**gnome** · September-07-10, 06:50 PM

DC4, you're way wrong on this one. You're thinking the old fashion way, the way that got us to believe that a single industry would employ us forever and that they'd be here as long as time.

Detroit, and in turn the rest of industrial America, has to think less about forever and more about small and fast. Nimble. Elastic.

The idea that cars would be the Golden Ticket has turned to ashes in our mouths because we seriously thought someone was going to do something massive with the Packard, Kelsey-Hayes, Studebacker and Fisher-21 plants. We made it difficult if not impossible to be nimble with those properties, to think smaller and not forever.

There is no happy ever after, no magic manufacturing god who is going to solve our problems. Not big government, not big industry. and even if the could they wouldn't be here forever.

Food will. Especially in the short term when so many are hungry.

**wolverine** · September-07-10, 06:54 PM

I just say, why bother he comment to stir up controversy. I don't know why people who have the power to do good would choose to criticize other people's effort to do something positive.

DC48080 · September-07-10, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

DC4, you're way wrong on this one. You're thinking the old fashion way, the way that got us to believe that a single industry would employ us forever and that they'd be here as long as time.

Detroit, and in turn the rest of industrial America, has to think less about forever and more about small and fast. Nimble. Elastic.

The idea that cars would be the Golden Ticket has turned to ashes in our mouths because we seriously thought someone was going to do something massive with the Packard, Kelsey-Hayes, Studebacker and Fisher-21 plants. We made it difficult if not impossible to be nimble with those properties, to think smaller and not forever.

There is no happy ever after, no magic manufacturing god who is going to solve our problems. Not big government, not big industry. and even if the could they wouldn't be here forever.

Food will. Especially in the short term when so many are hungry.

You completely misunderstand my point. Anyone who thinks that so called "urban farming" is going to revive this city economically is dillusional. Farming is not an economic engine in this country except for the big corporate farms that concentrate many thousands of acres and have vast capital to invest. Such capital does not exist in Detroit.

**English** · September-07-10, 07:16 PM

Urban gardening/farming could be just one aspect of a diversified local economy. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

DC48080 · September-07-10, 07:24 PM

True. But don't discount manufacturing. When it comes right down to it that is where Detroit's strength lies. A few hipsters growing carrots in the [[possibly toxic contaminated) soil will not bring the City of Detroit back to greatness.

**wolverine** · September-07-10, 07:30 PM

To build on that, I thought this whole time the urban farming idea was just proactive Detroit residents making a difference in their communities. At least, that's how community gardens and farm plots have been created thus far. No one should expect this to become an economic engine or even a solution to many of Detroit's problems. Instead it's a way of improving the appearance of neighborhoods, providing an educational experience for Detroiters as well as a healthy hobby. Why Jackson has something against this particularly, I'm not sure.

**3WC** · September-07-10, 07:39 PM

I think it's one of the best ideas to come out of Detroit since the Mustang.

When I was a child during WW II, "victory gardens" were very popular. The town and college set aside city land or campus land and permitted folks to stake it off and "farm" it. My mother acquired the rights to about 2 acres and farmed it diligently. All we kids were required to help. As a 6-8 year old I carried buckets of water for 5 blocks, as there was no way to irrigate the land except to haul water in. [[I learned to really pray - for rain -- as a very young kid.) We also had to hoe, weed, and pick the vegetables.

Our large family lived on home grown vegetables; during the war everything was rationed and we were able to buy only about 2 pounds of meat a week, and that's because we had a large family. We grew so much food we gave quite a bit of it away, to older folks in the neighborhood who couldn't have their own gardens. We were never hungry and our diet was super healthy.

It was a rewarding, character building experience. I didn't think so at the time but I soon realized how beneficial it was was for me, our family, and the town.

I hope for Detroit's sake the urban farm movement really takes off. "Ho[[e) in Detroit might take on a whole new meaning.

**Blueidone** · September-07-10, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by DC48080

True. But don't discount manufacturing. When it comes right down to it that is where Detroit's strength lies. A few hipsters growing carrots in the [[possiy toxic contaminated) soil will not bring the City of Detroit back to greatness.

They are not "hipsters" and they are not growing in "Possibly toxic contaminated soil". These statements just point out that you have no idea about urban farming. If you would like to get a clue, stop by one of the many large urban gardens around.

We make our own compost. We plant in raised beds [[ for the most part ). Those who do grow in the "native" soil generally have it tested before they plant one seed.

Those who believe in urban farming do so not because it will replace manufacturing or because it will "bring the City of Detroit back to greatness" but so that it will feed hungry people, teach people how to grow food for their families so that they are less dependent on high priced urban grocery stores, get people back to a sense of community sustenance, and teach them to eat healthier food.

I hope that Rev. Jackson was talking about "Hantz-type" farming and not the small urban farms that are helping improve our city by improving the lives of its citizens. We are not out to find something to replace manufacturing....just something to feed our bodies and souls.

Check out this website and blog...maybe it will give you a little education:

www.georgiastreetcc.com

http://georgiastreetgarden.blogspot.com/

DC48080 · September-07-10, 07:48 PM

Well I don't mean any dig at what you do but [[as I said on a previous post) I am weary of the fools that think farming is the next big thing for Detroit.

Feeding the poor is all fine and well but farming alone will not revive the city.

**oldredfordette** · September-07-10, 08:30 PM

Blueidone, you guys are doing wonderful work. Thank you. Georgia Street is a shining example of what can be done. All over the city, people are quietly growing food and clearing out neighborhoods. Is it the final answer? Nobody ever said it was, but it sure is a lovely positive development.

**LeannaM** · September-07-10, 08:45 PM

I don't think urban farms are necessarily supposed to turn a profit. It's more about bringing the community together and providing healthy fresh food for people.

In St. Louis, the St. Patrick's Center has an urban farm and they have a program to teach their patients [[mostly drug addicts and homeless, sometimes mentally ill people) how to do jobs related to farming. According to their site, 45% of their graduates get jobs. Not a great number, but it's good considering what these men were doing before. They also give grants that provide money so that schools can start their own farms and have classes involving agriculture. There are also some neighborhood farms that the residents grow themselves. Some of the produce goes to the local farmers markets.

Obviously St. Louis and Detroit are not the same. I also know that no city is saved by urban farming, but it can be a very good thing, especially if it's on land that currently has no other use. With the green movement going on there may be some federal dollars for it, although most of the stimulus money has gone out. Urban farming is not going to solve all of Detroit's problem. It should not necessarily be top priority. But urban farms can be used to do great things. Lots of cities do small scale urban farming and most people seem fine with it.

Interesting quote from the article

Jackson said he dislikes Mayor Dave Bing’s plan to plow over vacant homes and create urban farms because it will displace residents.

So is he complaining about urban farms or rightsizing?

**fryar** · September-07-10, 09:29 PM

Guys, DC48080 has backtracked from his initial statement. There probably are people out there overblowing the benefits of urban farming, but it's also an idea for putting some of that apparently undesirable/low-value land to some kind of use in a big old vacuum of ideas.

From the article linked to above

“We have to put the focus on what we need,” Jackson told the Detroit City Council during a 30-minute appearance, comparing the city to a war zone not unlike Iraq. “There needs to be security, stability and reconstruction. Everything that has been done in Baghdad could be done here.”

Wait, so this is friggin' Baghdad, but we can't inconvenience, if it came to it, a couple hundred people for sentimentality's sake? We have had this debate, and I just overstated my position, but not if Detroit=Baghdad. If he wants to clear-hold-build, fine, I do too - have him subsidize or even just organize security patrols in downtown.

From the article linked to above
Jackson said he dislikes Mayor Dave Bing’s plan to plow over vacant homes and create urban farms because it will displace residents.

That is either brilliant reporting, ridiculous reporting, or biased reporting.

**kathy2trips** · September-07-10, 10:55 PM

Why do people even listen to Jesse Jackson? Why do people give him power? How many years is he going to coast on his "rep"? Ugh!

**smogboy** · September-08-10, 01:07 AM

Personally I think Jesse Jackson has lost a lot of his credibility as any sort of urban activist. For whatever reason he just seems to fail to connect with people now. Years ago I though Al Sharpton was the in-your-face preacher that just showed up for face time during tragedies, but at least he's showing up and offering some sense of comfort to the ones affected. Jesse Jackson just doesn't hav that sort of moxie any more.

His comments on what this community wants to do for its own good is prime example of how out of touch he is. I've seen many of these urban gardens spring up all around town. No one has laid claim to how Detroit is suddenly going to turn into the heartland of America; it's just good hard working honest folks doing something good for themselves in a very difficult economic downturn. It gets neighbors out. It keeps the areas looking respectable. And one of the side effects of this urban farming that I think we Detroiters have been lacking for a good while, is a sense of pride in our own communities.

Jesse Jackson didn't have to say anything about it at all. He's lost a fair amount of the respect I once had for the guy with statements like this.

**reddog289** · September-08-10, 01:39 AM

I will ignore the Rev Jacksons remarks, Yet as he has spoken so will I.Urban farming/Gardenening in my opinion is a good thing for the city. What looks better, tires laying over a vacent lot or food growing on that lot?.As for large scale farming you need a large amount of land. It may be good for the city to rightsize, yet I can remember what happened 30 years ago with Poletown.No easy answers.

**Gannon** · September-08-10, 07:19 AM

I would be far more concerned over the long-term viability of urban gardening and livestock keeping if the good Reverend would've understood it all and jumped on our merry bandwagon.

Likely that if it weren't for him, MLK might've had a better room without that 'view'. Jesse needs to go away. The community is never served when he shows on the scene.

**mauser** · September-08-10, 07:27 AM

Um....just do a soil and air quality test, theeeeeeeen ask the question again about feeding people that food. There is a garden along jefferson [[the one with the crucified scarecrow with "MLK" written on it and a bullet hole drawn on its forehead) that is right next to a half demolished apartment building.

You gonna eat that stuff >>>?

**Detroitnerd** · September-08-10, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

There is no magic bullet that is going to save Detroit.

However, Detroiters growing their own food, selling it to fellow Detroiters who often have little access to healthy food, and making a little profit is NOT "foolish".

Even if he was referring to a venture similar to Hantz, he is being irresponsible and minimalizing the efforts of the small scale urban farmers and garderners in Detroit who do the city a great service.

It seems like the article is conflating two or three different things. They put the actual sentiment at the end of the article. [[I hate when they do this.)

"Jackson said he dislikes Mayor Dave Bing’s plan to plow over vacant homes and create urban farms because it will displace residents."

This really doesn't make sense. You don't displace residents by plowing over vacant homes. And, underneath it all, I sense the sentiment that once these homes are plowed over, the "farm" may last a year or two before it's sold to big developers. That's a real concern worth red-flagging.

Terrible article. Good discussion here.

gdogslim · September-08-10, 11:24 AM

Don't you love how liberals tell people what they should or shouldn't do for a living and how to live their lives?
Maybe Jesse would rather have them sue the USDA for reparations, like the millions the Sherrod's received.
http://www.nlpc.org/stories/2010/08/...-line-millions
As it turns out, Ms. Sherrod has had plenty of luck with the legal system. Sherrod and her husband, Charles, run a nonprofit advocacy group called Rural Development Leadership Network. That organization last year happened to be awarded about $12.5 million in the Pigford case, a sum representing $8.25 million for the loss of land plus $4.25 million for the loss of income. That didn't include $300,000 to the Sherrods [[$150,000 for each spouse) for "pain and suffering." Nor didit include an unspecified sum for "debt forgiveness." Significantly, this settlement, the largest of any Pigford plaintiff, was announced only days before her USDA appointment of July 25, 2009

**smogboy** · September-08-10, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It seems like the article is conflating two or three different things. They put the actual sentiment at the end of the article. [[I hate when they do this.)

"Jackson said he dislikes Mayor Dave Bing’s plan to plow over vacant homes and create urban farms because it will displace residents."

This really doesn't make sense. You don't displace residents by plowing over vacant homes. And, underneath it all, I sense the sentiment that once these homes are plowed over, the "farm" may last a year or two before it's sold to big developers. That's a real concern worth red-flagging.

Terrible article. Good discussion here.

Nice catch. Vacant homes in my book generally mean no residents- as in empty, a shell, no occupants, lack of human habitation. So there really is no displacement of people. From what I gather Bing wants to do is consolidate the City to keep city services such as the police & fire departments from running out to the areas where there's only a few scant residents on a huge plot of land. It's a waste of the city's resources. We just don't have the population density we once had in this land area [[which is quite huge compared to other big cities). The city itself has already shrunk with its residents. Why not pool what remaining resources we have now to a tighter area to better serve what's still viable.

And the land that is gained from the lack of people living there shouldn't be left to go fallow. Why not use it as farm land? When and if Detroit ever gets back on its feet again and we need that land, why shouldn't we sell it off to viable developers [[not squatters waiting to cash in)? While it's always great to have companies and manufacturers building and keeping up an area with viable businesses, it's just not happening here yet. There are no thriving neighborhoods in those areas. We've just got too much land! I think that's the point where Jesse Jackson is missing the point.