Rochelle Riley: Schools should be #1 priority for new mayor

[Irvine Laird]

Rochelle Riley of the Detroit Free Press believes the singular focus on the next mayor's administration should be fixing the Detroit Public Schools. She her column here: http://www.freep.com/article/20090501/COL10/905010339
Riley makes a strong statement in the column: The schools should not revert to the control of a school board after Mr. Bobb finishes his work here. The inference is that Detroit's mayor should oversee the schools. We've debated the merits of that here before.

The crux of the column is Robert Thompson's 2003 offer to give $200 million to start charter high schools in Detroit--an offer that Detroit's school board rejected. Ken Cockrel says he would reject the offer if Thompson was to make it again. Bing says he would take it. Riley seems to favor Bing's position. I think I do, too.

What do you think? Are the schools the single most important challenge/opportunity before the new mayor? Even more important than economic development and public safety/service?

[Russix]

All of them and more are priorities. Rating them is personal choice.

[daddeeo]

You have to get the city's finances under control. How can you support the schools if the city is broke?

[firstandten]

Rochelle Riley of the Detroit Free Press believes the singular focus on the next mayor's administration should be fixing the Detroit Public Schools. She her column here: http://www.freep.com/article/20090501/COL10/905010339
Riley makes a strong statement in the column: The schools should not revert to the control of a school board after Mr. Bobb finishes his work here. The inference is that Detroit's mayor should oversee the schools. We've debated the merits of that here before. ?

I have been a strong proponent that this is THE issue that the new[[starting 2010) mayor needs to focus on. Without a strong school system we will not be able to attract whats left of the middle class back to Detroit especially if there are children involved. The middle class in Detroit is essentially paying a dual tax. Property taxes to live in the city and private school tuition. If Detroiters felt better about the schools maybe the private school tuition would go away.

The crux of the column is Robert Thompson's 2003 offer to give $200 million to start charter high schools in Detroit--an offer that Detroit's school board rejected. Ken Cockrel says he would reject the offer if Thompson was to make it again. Bing says he would take it. Riley seems to favor Bing's position. I think I do, too. ?

I agree with Cockrel's position. No way would I let Thompson build 5 high schools in the city. Maybe 2 high schools and 2 or 3 middle/elementary schools . As with Cockrel and his Titanic and lifeboat example charter schools should be a supplement and not a replacement to a strong DPS

What do you think? Are the schools the single most important challenge/opportunity before the new mayor? Even more important than economic development and public safety/service?

Both areas are important public safety goes without saying, that is an issue for all mayors and every election cycle.

Economic development will altimately depend on the viablity of our school system. You can't create jobs without a skilled and educated workforce.

[DetroitDad]

Schools are without a doubt the biggest issue for families, with crime being the most important for unmarried young professionals and the elderly. Families don't buy homes, they buy schools. Give Detroit a good or great school system, and you'll get a nice rise in property values and home sales.

Beyond that, you also need destinations people want to live near. Downtown, casinos and stadiums, transit, and parks are important secondary concerns after schools and non violent crime control [[basic civil disorder is the broken window of crime). People will choose to live near destinations if there are good schools and little civil disorder. Taxes and insurance costs are also secondary to schools and non violent crime.

Residents are the egg before the chicken because there will always be some risk taking singles and starter families interested in investing in an area where their home will rise in value. Once enough of these move in, you'll see more of the legit small retail and food options followed by the first batch of home owners selling for a profit. New higher income people will come in and the Meijers and Kohls, who only come later in the cycle, will follow as the new bubble begins to inflate.

[Irvine Laird]

Families don't buy homes, they buy schools.

I didn't know how true this is until my wife and I began looking for homes. We share a passion for Detroit that compelled us to live and work here for many years, but our highest priority in looking for a home is the schools where we will enroll our children. This change in our perspective [[from the former view that any "hip" place with lots of bars and restaurants would be ideal) is influencing us to look at places we wouldn't be caught dead considering even a few months ago for fear of the grief we would endure from our hipster friends in places like Detroit and Ferndale.

[professorscott]

The school district is destroying Detroit, no doubt. The Mayor, though, is not in a position to do any damned thing about the schools. Your elected school board is to blame, and sadly, it doesn't seem to matter who gets elected. The school board and the various superintendents who have gone through the DPS revolving door don't seem to give a damn about the kids.

Detroit can not survive in any form without decent schools, and Detroit does not have decent schools. School district personnel are all about power and control, and don't care whether children are educated [[or even safe) or not.

I have despaired over this problem since I've been in the Detroit area. We are throwing away thousands of lives every year, and have been for decades. Somebody ought to be shot over this, and I would be happy to personally take place in the shooting if I thought it would do any good.

How can any of this be fixed? Anyone have any ideas, aside from murder, which though cathartic is probably impractical [[not to mention risky)?

[firstandten]

The school district is destroying Detroit, no doubt. The Mayor, though, is not in a position to do any damned thing about the schools. Your elected school board is to blame, and sadly, it doesn't seem to matter who gets elected. The school board and the various superintendents who have gone through the DPS revolving door don't seem to give a damn about the kids.

Detroit can not survive in any form without decent schools, and Detroit does not have decent schools. School district personnel are all about power and control, and don't care whether children are educated [[or even safe) or not.

I have despaired over this problem since I've been in the Detroit area. We are throwing away thousands of lives every year, and have been for decades. Somebody ought to be shot over this, and I would be happy to personally take place in the shooting if I thought it would do any good.

How can any of this be fixed? Anyone have any ideas, aside from murder, which though cathartic is probably impractical [[not to mention risky)?

Professor, I feel your pain and as the situation now exists you are correct 100%

I've posted stories on Mr. Bobb before but this bears repeating.

Mr. Bobb was the president of the school board in DC when the mayor fired him and the rest of the board and put his own person in [[reformer Michelle Rhee) who reports to no-one but the mayor. Mr. Bobb literally begged the mayor to not do it but he did anyway.

I think he saw the value in that approach because now he reports only to the governor, he's in charge of everything that has to do with money, the school board has responsibility over academics [[ a nice way of telling them they have no power)

Its looks like Bobb's approach like DC mayor Fenty's approach CAN work its going to take some time of course. We just need a mayor with guts who will hire a kick-ass administrator and give that person some political cover. As voters we can and must insist that happens.

[sumas]

Schools are critical to Detroit. When we were young we bought in Detroit. We had no intention of raising a family so schools were no problem. Quite by surprise, we had two kids and yes where we lived was determined by school quality. Our kids are grown now and we have been back in Detroit for five years.

If Detroit can't fix its school problems then perhaps it should promote itself as a senior community. On our block in EEV there are zero kids. It's quiet, neighbors are friendly, property is well maintained, minimal crime and our average age here is around 55.

At first, I started to write this as tongue in cheek. Now I am wondering if I am on to something. No kids seems to equal very low crime. Last summer was the last time I saw a group of kids hanging out. They were throwing rocks at a neighbor's dog. We asked them to move on and were ignored. Eventually we prevailed. No doubt the kids were bored.

Schools are important but so is possitive recreational activities. Public [[free) schools are the right of every child. If Detroit can't deliver, then we need to look very seriously at where our tax dollars go regarding education. Charter schools are one option but I am positive there must be other solutions too.

[royce]

The days of allowing the school board to run the public school system in Detroit and the mayor just runs the city needs to end. However, how do you end it? Another state takeover is one answer, but it won't be popular with the voters in Detroit? Give the mayor control? Again, won't be popular with the voters?

As a teacher for DPS, I know what DPS needs. It needs an infusion of money the world has never seen. That money is clearly needed for the basics - books and supplies. However, it's also needed to hire teacher's aides to help classroom teachers with the performance and behavioral problems of so many students. It's needed to hire more security personnel to monitor in-school detention halls. All of these things are needed and more and it takes money.

Roberts Thompson's gift was not a gift to DPS if it had strings attached. If you volunteer to give money to someone, is it right for you to tell them how to spend it? If you set up scholarships or a foundation, then that's different. Thompson didn't offer that. He offered to build new charter high schools. Charters aren't a panacea.
What the public doesn't know is that those students with challenges - behavioral or academic, especially behavioral, only remain in those charter schools until the state attendence counts and then they're put out and often end up in DPS. If the charter school was so great, why didn't they find a way to deal with the students needs?

I agree that something needs to be done to improve DPS. I have stated my suggestions. Breaking up DPS, however, does no good because you still have the same kinds of students. Some areas of the city will have students with more of the problems I mentioned above than others. If that school gets these students, then should it get more money than the school that doesn't have as many of these students. Who makes that decision?

Give the money to the individual school and let them decide how to spend it looks good on paper, until that school administration mismanages the money and the students in that school are short changed. Then the public will want downtown to do something about it. Should each school in a determined district get its money based on the property taxes of that district? What if one district has a preponderance of renters or poor people?

Building a better mouse trap looks good on paper. However, it has its share of issues that didn't exist with the old one. DPS needs improvement, but what's the best way to go about it? Politicians in Lansing will probably have to decide again what's best for DPS , but the last time I checked, they weren't exactly brain surgeons.

[royce]

Forgive the errors with all of the question marks, but everytime I try to edit a post with this NEW forum format, it doesn't work. After I edit something, the forum tells me to log in again. When I do that, all of the edits disappear. When I try to go back and edit, the forum won't allow me to edit again.

[firstandten]

The days of allowing the school board to run the public school system in Detroit and the mayor just runs the city needs to end. However, how do you end it? Another state takeover is one answer, but it won't be popular with the voters in Detroit? Give the mayor control? Again, won't be popular with the voters?.

Sometimes people aren't always ready for change at a certain period of time [[remember casino's and those battles). But now I think the mayor taking over the schools is an idea whose time has come and the voters are now ready for. Essentially with Mr. Bobb you have a state takeover the board is just window dressing. The big issue back then as well is that you had the hated Engler calling the shots.

[LodgeDodger]

I don't believe the Mayor should have involvement in Detroit Public Schools. Elect a decent Board and things will improve.

Leave Mr. Bobb to finish the job he started.

[firstandten]

I don't believe the Mayor should have involvement in Detroit Public Schools. Elect a decent Board and things will improve.

Its not so much about people being decent. This current board has many decent people on it. Its the system of governance that is broken. That is what needs fixing.

[LodgeDodger]

Its not so much about people being decent. This current board has many decent people on it. Its the system of governance that is broken. That is what needs fixing.

I really meant knowledgeable and competent.

[firstandten]

I really meant knowledgeable and competent.

They are that also, not all but most , I have had dealings with some of them

[Kevgoblu]

Why so often when the topic of school performance comes up, conversation is always centered around admistration and funding?

If you think back a couple generations, schools had nowhere near the funding nor the technological advancements of today. But that didn't mean that the children couldn't correctly conjugate a sentence. That didn't mean that they didn't know their times tables. That didn't prevent them from memorizing the 50 states and their state capitals. When are people going to stop trying to assign blame to someone or something other than their own children's [[and thus, their own) lack of effort and / or motivation?

Spending money on security guards does not help a child read. The concept of needing security guards just identifies a different problem. A lack of order and decorum in the school. Children should not be entitleted to 13 years of public education. They should be entitiled to the opportunity for an education. And those that detract from the eduactional process should be summarily removed. Allow the children who are trying to learn to learn. And the rest? Trade school? Reform school? Millitary service? Can't say that I know what the best answer would be, but we can't continue to sit back and allow a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.

[LodgeDodger]

Why so often when the topic of school performance comes up, conversation is always centered around admistration and funding?

If you think back a couple generations, schools had nowhere near the funding nor the technological advancements of today. But that didn't mean that the children couldn't correctly conjugate a sentence. That didn't mean that they didn't know their times tables. That didn't prevent them from memorizing the 50 states and their state capitals. When are people going to stop trying to assign blame to someone or something other than their own children's [[and thus, their own) lack of effort and / or motivation?

Spending money on security guards does not help a child read. The concept of needing security guards just identifies a different problem. A lack of order and decorum in the school. Children should not be entitleted to 13 years of public education. They should be entitiled to the opportunity for an education. And those that detract from the eduactional process should be summarily removed. Allow the children who are trying to learn to learn. And the rest? Trade school? Reform school? Millitary service? Can't say that I know what the best answer would be, but we can't continue to sit back and allow a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.

Honey, it's a new world out there. What would REALLY help the Detroit Public Schools is better parenting. There are more than a few bad apples around to spoil the bushel.

[firstandten]

Honey, it's a new world out there. What would REALLY help the Detroit Public Schools is better parenting. There are more than a few bad apples around to spoil the bushel.

Unfortunately you can't legislate better parenting. Frankly, I think things started to go downhill when they got rid of corporal punishment

[firstandten]

Why so often when the topic of school performance comes up, conversation is always centered around admistration and funding?

If you think back a couple generations, schools had nowhere near the funding nor the technological advancements of today. But that didn't mean that the children couldn't correctly conjugate a sentence. That didn't mean that they didn't know their times tables. That didn't prevent them from memorizing the 50 states and their state capitals. When are people going to stop trying to assign blame to someone or something other than their own children's [[and thus, their own) lack of effort and / or motivation?

Spending money on security guards does not help a child read. The concept of needing security guards just identifies a different problem. A lack of order and decorum in the school. Children should not be entitleted to 13 years of public education. They should be entitiled to the opportunity for an education. And those that detract from the eduactional process should be summarily removed. Allow the children who are trying to learn to learn. And the rest? Trade school? Reform school? Millitary service? Can't say that I know what the best answer would be, but we can't continue to sit back and allow a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.

People sometimes think that if you throw enough money at a problem it will fix it. Things change and like the auto companies need a new business model to address the changing times, the educational community needs a new educational model that addresses the changes going on. There are volumes of books written on the failure of urban public education and what can be done to fix it. There is enough blame among the various stakeholders [[ I mean anybody that has anything to do with a school district) that it can be termed an institutional failure. There are a number of new educational models being used across the country. The mayorial takeover is only one model but it seems to be working in some cities.

But two things must happen which speaks to your post and that is accountability and uncompromising standards. Those two things must be in any educational model that we use. That must be the test of an effective model. The current model does not pass the accountability test because of a micromanaging large school board, and it doesn't pass the uncompromising standards test because of the political pressure the citizens can exert have made them do 180 degree changes.

Thats why I stated it doesn't make a difference what board members they put in, that model doesn't work anymore in this day and age.

[firstandten]

Rochelle Riley of the Detroit Free Press believes the singular focus on the next mayor's administration should be fixing the Detroit Public Schools. She her column here: http://www.freep.com/article/20090501/COL10/905010339
Riley makes a strong statement in the column: The schools should not revert to the control of a school board after Mr. Bobb finishes his work here. The inference is that Detroit's mayor should oversee the schools. We've debated the merits of that here before.

One other thing that I didn't mention is we may because of circumstances be forced to change from a school board / superintendent structure anyway. It is highly unlikely you will be able to hire a talented administrator with urban school experience who is going to want to report to 11 board members.

What you will get will be people who fit a profile along the lines of the last superintendent. Nobody with the kind of skills you need to turnaround a school district like Detroit will accept that kind of situation and they can get as much money if not more going to a system were they have more control.

What you will have left is trying to pick the least undesirable candidate to head up your district

[Neilr]

One other thing that I didn't mention is we may because of circumstances be forced to change from a school board / superintendent structure anyway. It is highly unlikely you will be able to hire a talented administrator with urban school experience who is going to want to report to 11 board members.

What you will get will be people who fit a profile along the lines of the last superintendent. Nobody with the kind of skills you need to turnaround a school district like Detroit will accept that kind of situation and they can get as much money if not more going to a system were they have more control.

What you will have left is trying to pick the least undesirable candidate to head up your district

That's what happened the last go round. As absolutely unqualified as Dr. Connie Calloway was to successfully lead a system such as DPS, she most likely was the most qualified of the final five applicants.

[royce]

Lodgedodger, hiring more security guards will help keep down the chaos in the classrooms and the hallways so that the students have an opportunity to read. Hiring more teacher's aides will allow the teacher or that aide to spend time with the students who are having problems reading. Money spent in the right way is money well spent. The problem with DPS is that it spends money so inefficiently that there are more negative results than positive results.

[royce]

Oh, and one other thing, the current school board set up needs to be abolished. All you need to have is a superintendent appointed by the mayor who answers directly to the mayor and no school board. What sense does it make to have a school board that doen't get paid a salary? Giving non-paid individuals access to millions of dollars to carry out DPS business is asking for trouble. When did this non-paying, part-time school board set up come into fruition? It may work in other places, but it clearly doesn't work in Detroit.

[firstandten]

Found this report that gives a detailed history of the relationship between the schools the economic decline of the city and the politics of the city and state as it relates to DPS. The piece was written before Calloway was ousted but it seems revelant to the discussion of what Mr. Bobb is doing now and what Mayor Bing must do. It is written by Dr. Wilbur Rich. Dr. Rich talks extensively about the first mayoral takeover of the board and its problems.




http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/advocacy/...eformatted.pdf