David Stott Bldg downtown asking $1,8 Million

[Ocean2026]

Anyone been in this building? It says large windows and a nice view of the river etc. Guess there's not much taller on the way to the water.

In general I wonder if these buildings have outlived their usefulness. Does the internet and working at home cut the already decreased demand for office space?

Each floor is 4000 sq ft imagine if each of the top 30 floors could be cut into two super large condos with great views and big windows and each could sell for $75,000. After commissions etc one might gross $3.7 million but who knows what it would cost to fix up?

I might pay 75k for a 2000 sq ft condo on the 35th floor.

[wolverine]

In general I wonder if these buildings have outlived their usefulness. Does the internet and working at home cut the already decreased demand for office space?

Hmm, I think saying this is a bit of a stretch. Certainly more people are working from home, but when you say "decreased demand in office space" do you mean Detroit or nationwide? Here's the required office space needed for 2010 and 2011 by a few NYC companies. In fact, in general demand for office space is up in most major American cities.


As for the Stott, I think it has outlived its usefulness as an office building. It's neither open office space, or linear office space. It makes putting alot of people on one floor difficult. It would be great for boutique offices, but there's so much subdivided office space available in the city it's not like people have made a rush for it.

I think the Stott would be a superb condo building. Great views, and windows on all sides. Not sure what the floorplan of the building looks like in terms of stairwell configuration, but I'm going to assume you could make it work as a residential building with codes and other restrictions.

[carlscomputers]

Stott needs lots of infrastructure work, has 6 elevators & 2 stairwells, but still very much viable as office space! Where did you see it listed Ocean?

[noula]

Its my dream to buy and refurbish the David Stott Tower. It is such a beauty.

Mixed use maybe? office and residential? I'm sure it needs a ton of work. I wonder what percentage of it is rented?

[Ocean2026]

Carls it was on Loopnet- basic search [[ you don't need to be a paying member)

[fryar]

I don't think the need for office space has decreased, although it probably could have, like the paperless office could have come around. As one who works from home, I don't think it is entirely ready for prime time. With what I do, I am part of a team that collaborates, of course, but we don't do a lot of teaming in the way that most people in most jobs do. Instead, I think with IT and the internet, you can get away from cluster effects a lot more, the kind that put all banking in NYC or all car manufacturing in Detroit, but I think people will still need to banter over the water cooler and whatnot in order to really collaborate for most jobs. With what I do, really, 99% of the time I'm a one-man-show, with more experienced colleagues in similar positions I can email if I have a question. I end up working with a lot of people I have never met before, and we're not as integrated a team as one might like.

I would definitely also consider buying that apartment. Even a more realistic variation, maybe a few floors lower and half that size, if it was a nice renovation. While $75k buys you a lot these days in Detroit as a whole, that's a very competitive price compared to the apartments that are for sale in the Riverview or Riverfront complex [[although I can't say whether they're moving or not, presumably not). That building totally makes sense as a doorman-type building, which gives you that nice sense of security, kind of like a gated community, while at the same time leaving you in the city, not smack-dab in an actual gated community. It would appeal to buyers to whom Riverview is not at all appealing.

Of course, you'd have to find a couple hundred people willing to do that, I would imagine.

[esp1986]

Stott needs lots of infrastructure work, has 6 elevators & 2 stairwells, but still very much viable as office space! Where did you see it listed Ocean?

The good news about it though, is that it hasn't been open to the elements for twenty years. And, knock on wood, hopefully the owners will keep it sealed up so it doesn't become that way. Sure, it would need to have updated elevators and electrical and networking, etc, but the big plus here is that it is closed up.

I look at it this way... the owners of the Book Building and Tower are supposedly asking for $12 Million. Now, granted, there is more than double the space over there, but given photos I've seen, the condition of the Stott is far better than the Book. John Ferchill was interested in the Book, but did say the asking price was high. He has also shown in interest in Capitol Park, and the Stott could very possibly be a better deal for a potential developer. So with the economy improving, the Capitol Park work well underway, and the state land bank buying other buildings in that area [[The Farwell comes to mind) a renovation of the Stott is not too far fetched, given the right circumstances... here's to hoping.

[carlscomputers]

Carls it was on Loopnet- basic search [[ you don't need to be a paying member)

Thanks, that's strange since everybody recently got kicked out after the same guy from Florida who bought the Free Press Bldg, acquired it due to loan forclosure, & said he was gonna do Condos/Apts? He could have let the remaining tenents, myself included, stay until they figured it out? Sucks!!!

[davewindsor]

I'm curious what the taxes would be on something like that. I don't have the pay account. Is this a foreclosure or tax sale?

[gdogslim]

Would be nice but I'm sure it would be financially unfeasible.
The price is right but there is something wrong with the whole picture
Not enough demand for a C class building with no parking.
Parking, where would one park, walk a block or two, no.
At least $30.00+ a sq ft. X 185,000 = 5,500,000.00 plus 1,850,000 = 7,400,000.00
divide that by two tenants on 30 floors = $123,000 per 2000 sf unit.
Taxes have to be at least 35,000.0 a year

[esp1986]

Would be nice but I'm sure it would be financially unfeasible.
The price is right but there is something wrong with the whole picture
Not enough demand for a C class building with no parking.
Parking, where would one park, walk a block or two, no.
At least $30.00+ a sq ft. X 185,000 = 5,500,000.00 plus 1,850,000 = 7,400,000.00
divide that by two tenants on 30 floors = $123,000 per 2000 sf unit.
Taxes have to be at least 35,000.0 a year

There happens to be a garage behind it, fronting Woodward that, if someone really wanted to, could work out a deal with the owner to use it. Jim Papas, owner of 1001 Woodward recently bought it out of foreclosure [[with 1001 Woodward), and I'm sure he would be open to anything that creates a little more revenue for his complex. If someone really wanted to, it could be done.

[Packman41]

To Fryar: You said, "I don't think the need for office space has decreased, although it probably could have..."

Below are comments made in a 2010 2Q Detroit Office Report prepared by brokers Marcus and Milichap.
·Office-using employment contractions were more pronounced, with area firms thinning payrolls by 1.8 percent, or 7,450 positions, during the year ending in the second quarter. The decline was fueled by losses in the financial activities sector totaling 5,900 jobs, or 6 percent of head counts. Hiring in the professional and business services segment has resumed, however, with nearly 700 spots added year to date.

·Forecast: Total employment will decrease by 10,000 workers this year, a 0.6 percent loss but a significant improvement from the 144,800 jobs eliminated in 2009. Office-using employers will cut 3,100 positions, a decline of 0.7 percent

And as for parking at 1001Woodward, I would think that would be out of the question as the owner is probably saving tehr parking spaces for his building to make it more user-friendly and more competitive against the other buildings, i.e. the David Stott Building. Only reason to share the parking spaces is if you had way too many spaces for your own building and you needed the extra income.

[Gsgeorge]

There is a large vacant building on Griswold just south of the Stott, with a blank white and grey facade, that architects had marked as a possible parking garage site for the Stott when early redevelopment plans were put on the table.

[fryar]

That $125,000 break-even price figure, that's a good price, relatively speaking. There are some much smaller lofts that at least used to be on the market for that price. If somebody turned it into 700 sf one bedrooms, they could go for 50,000, break-even, by your numbers. Which, maybe there isn't much demand for those types of units, what do i know, but they're also not really out there, at least not without compromising your downtown location to some extent, from what I have seen, just looking casually. You wanna live in Lafayette Park, well, that's a different story. But not right there in that People Mover territory.

About my comment on office space, I don't think the demand has gone down in general, as a mega-trend, so to speak. I can see where the potential is there for that to happen to some degree one day. I'm not surprised to hear that there is an over-supply of office space in Detroit today, in particular.

[carlscomputers]

There is a large vacant building on Griswold just south of the Stott, with a blank white and grey facade, that architects had marked as a possible parking garage site for the Stott when early redevelopment plans were put on the table.

That's the old Rite Aid store which wraps around 2 sides of the DSB.

[rbdetsport]

What I am wondering is why doesn't the city of Detroit go out and poach some of those companies from NYC?

[sirrealone]

My guess is the conversation would go something like this:

Hello?

Hi, this is *so and so* from the city of Detroit. We would really love if you would consider moving your offices from Manhattan to our city.

This is what they'd hear in response.

[Ocean2026]

Sirrealone

LOL to this is what they'd hear in response....

An alternative explanation could be that Detroit Yes doesn't allow that kind of language.


OK has anyone been inside this building in the last decade who can share the views and how it might look?

[carlscomputers]

Sirrealone

LOL to this is what they'd hear in response....

An alternative explanation could be that Detroit Yes doesn't allow that kind of language.


OK has anyone been inside this building in the last decade who can share the views and how it might look?

Been there for the last decade, contact me off post, will answer any questions you may have...

[fryar]

Yeah, Carl's Computers shows as the [[former) feature tenant on Google Maps, actually.

Sorry to hear you got kicked out of there along with everybody else. That seems unnecessary for ongoing reservation work.

[noula]

The asking price most likely reflects the state of the commercial property market. Its pretty much a "no bid" market with the economy in free-fall. I would imagine the asking price for the Book isn't much more than a wish, reflecting a market past.

Any idea of the taxes for the Stott? Its such a beauty.

[esp1986]

The asking price most likely reflects the state of the commercial property market. Its pretty much a "no bid" market with the economy in free-fall. I would imagine the asking price for the Book isn't much more than a wish, reflecting a market past.

Any idea of the taxes for the Stott? Its such a beauty.

The Book was said to be asking for $12 million about 8 months ago. That according to John Ferchill of Book Cadillac fame. He said the asking price was a deterrent to his plans for the building.

[DetroitDad]

The Stott might have strong potential future in providing rental apartments for young single professionals who would like to actually live in or in walking distance of buildings providing so many services to small businesses.

Even so, there is a lot of supply for many things that there isn't enough of a demand for.

Any use for large buildings in the CBD is going to have to wait for a huge demand in a single market sector [[a boom or bubble), or a demand happening in several market sectors simultaneously. I am not sure any of this is possible in our current economic climate, but if you are edging your bets on the odds that the economy is rebounding or we are headed for flat or slow growth, it could be the time to start setting yourself up to be able to capitalize on the approaching opportunities. The best investment money and opportunities come and go fast.

[Gsgeorge]

I can say that I would probably move into the Stott if it was redone as rental units. But calm down with the granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, chandeliers, expensive bathroom sinks & showers... what is with all these rental units downtown being so luxurious? Who exactly are they expecting to move here? If the places were simpler, more reasonably priced, I would go for them. Right now Woodward Lofts is asking $1000-$1750 for 750-1100 sq ft. You've gotta be kidding me! If they just cut back on the expensive fixtures and dropped the rent a few hundred bucks, I would go for them.

The Stott, I think, has the potential to be marketed as affordable rental units because of its size & relative lack of amenities. If they keep things simple, maybe even provide some units as raw lofts, maybe reserve the first four floors for Office, it could attract younger, more frugal folks and it might actually work. The condo craze is over. No one wants to pay over $100,000 to live anywhere in Detroit, historic skyscraper or not. But I would easily pay $750-$1000 per mo for a large one-bed or medium-sized two-bed with a friend.

[carlscomputers]

Yeah, Carl's Computers shows as the [[former) feature tenant on Google Maps, actually.

Sorry to hear you got kicked out of there along with everybody else. That seems unnecessary for ongoing reservation work.

Thanks! The thing that sucked the most was the lack of communication from the new owner[[s). Everybody kept waiting to see if they were gonna write new leases or share bldg plans/intentions... nothing but a letter saying pack yo sh*t & get out! Well, not literally, but you get the picture...