Harper Woods Schools

[laurin]

I know that the school district is going through a shake-up due to low test scores. Does anyone have any information regarding the district and the community? Any and all information would be greatly appreciated.

I did see the 'eastside suburbs' thread, but wanted a bit more specific info. Thanks!

[Traveller1]

I know that the school district is going through a shake-up due to low test scores. Does anyone have any information regarding the district and the community? Any and all information would be greatly appreciated.

I did see the 'eastside suburbs' thread, but wanted a bit more specific info. Thanks!

I'm not in the business of slamming on schools, but from what I've heard and researched myself on greatschools.com, schooldigger.com. etc. Harper Woods Public Schools aren't the greatest anymore.

Many parents that have school bound children in Harper Woods try to buy in the neighborhoods of Harper Woods that go to Grosse Pointe Public Schools [[GP North High School). I'm not exactly sure which neighborhood[[s) those are but I'll try to find a map.

[Traveller1]

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/CG...E_103282_7.pdf

Here's a Wayne County public school map. Zoom into Harper Woods and you can see the district lines for HW public schools and GP public schools.

Most of the Harper Woods neighborhoods east of I-94, as you can see on the map, are in the Grosse Pointe Public Schools.

[laurin]

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/CG...E_103282_7.pdf

Here's a Wayne County public school map. Zoom into Harper Woods and you can see the district lines for HW public schools and GP public schools.

Most of the Harper Woods neighborhoods east of I-94, as you can see on the map, are in the Grosse Pointe Public Schools.

Thank you for the map and your responses- they are very helpful.


So, it'd be safe to say that Harper Woods schools have been written off by the greater community?

[CLAUDE G]

As a former Alumni, I heard even GP north was starting to go to crap also/

[JenniferL]

Are the kids in the Harper Woods schools from Harper Woods or do they take schools-of-choice kids from Detroit?

[laurin]

Are the kids in the Harper Woods schools from Harper Woods or do they take schools-of-choice kids from Detroit?

They are Harper Woods kids. The HW district is not schools-of-choice.

[fryar]

As a former Alumni, I heard even GP north was starting to go to crap also/

Huh? I wasn't a student of GP geography or anything, but I did go through the GP's once or twice, that area looked like a well-endowed, pretty, leafy suburb that would seem to have some kind of control over that issue, a Yacht Club, country club type of place. It would have to have collapsed in the space of a few years.

[laurin]

Huh? I wasn't a student of GP geography or anything, but I did go through the GP's once or twice, that area looked like a well-endowed, pretty, leafy suburb that would seem to have some kind of control over that issue, a Yacht Club, country club type of place. It would have to have collapsed in the space of a few years.

What precipitated the change from leafy suburb to downhill area? -- which I assume led to the current state of the district.

I find HW very interesting.

[East Detroit]

Are the kids in the Harper Woods schools from Harper Woods or do they take schools-of-choice kids from Detroit?

Why do you ask?

[Danny]

When the black population [[mostly from Detroit) accelarted further into Harper Woods neighborhoods since the 2000s, their parents sent them to Harper Woods Public Schools. Today every HWPS elementary, middle and the new high school with its Wayne State University Annex is over 55 percent black. That includes Poupard Elementary which it's not part of HWPS. The white student population of HWPS decline from 97% in 1990 to 40% in 2000. By 2010 it would be 37%. Try not to blame this problem on the white flight or playing race cards. As for the lower standerized text scores in HWPS, it is from broken kids from broken parents from broken homes. Doesn't matter what color they are who are living in Harper Woods.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Source: from the neighbors of Harper Woods by survey.

Neda, I miss you so.

[bartock]

When the black population [[mostly from Detroit) accelarted further into Harper Woods neighborhoods since the 2000s, their parents sent them to Harper Woods Public Schools. Today every HWPS elementary, middle and the new high school with its Wayne State University Annex is over 55 percent black. That includes Poupard Elementary which it's not part of HWPS. The white student population of HWPS decline from 97% in 1990 to 40% in 2000. By 2010 it would be 37%. Try not to blame this problem on the white flight or playing race cards. As for the lower standerized text scores in HWPS, it is from broken kids from broken parents from broken homes. Doesn't matter what color they are who are living in Harper Woods.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Source: from the neighbors of Harper Woods by survey.

Neda, I miss you so.

Danny, good stuff.

I think the GP North comment earlier was about the school, not the area. GP doesn't have a "North," that would be Grosse Pointe Woods, which is still a leafy suburb [[and you can get great deals there right now, as well).

I live in Harper Woods, east of I-94 in the GP school district. While GP schools remain high quality, Danny is exactly right in that Poupard Elementary is loaded with Harper Woods' kids, a growing number from fractured homes, and fares miserably against other GP schools. GP North trails South, but not by much. In fact, both GP schools have been improving in test scoring the last few years. I'm guessing because economics are forcing some kids from private back to public schools. My oldest is in pre-school and I've decided to bypass the GP schools alltogether, Joan of Arc is affordable for a Catholic school.

Curious as to why Laurin would be so interested in Harper Woods. Don't get me wrong, I love the streetlights-and-sidewalks neighborhoods, the tree-lined streets, etc. However, aside from St. Sabbas, Eastland, a neat little library, Little League baseball and Bob Seger's old hangout, there isn't that much to see here.

Of course, since I wasn't born there and have only lived there for 7 years, I can't consider myself to be a "Harper Woodser."

[Patrick]

Open enrollment....you take kids from a shitty district with no skills and preparation and place them in a district with its shit together and of course test scrores will decline. Doesn't matter if they are black, white green or yellow.

[lincoln8740]

Open enrollment....you take kids from a shitty district with no skills and preparation and place them in a district with its shit together and of course test scrores will decline. Doesn't matter if they are black, white green or yellow.

When has what you described happened because of "white green or yellow" kids?

[Detroitej72]

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G
As a former Alumni, I heard even GP north was starting to go to crap also/

Huh? I wasn't a student of GP geography or anything, but I did go through the GP's once or twice, that area looked like a well-endowed, pretty, leafy suburb that would seem to have some kind of control over that issue, a Yacht Club, country club type of place. It would have to have collapsed in the space of a few years.

When people say G.P. North is going to crap, what they really mean is that more black kids are going there.

Grosse Pointe Schools are doing just fine, as evidence by the fact they are continuously in the top 25 in the nation.

[fryar]

I'll admit I have been wondering if it isn't just that old canard.

[Goose]

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G
As a former Alumni, I heard even GP north was starting to go to crap also/




When people say G.P. North is going to crap, what they really mean is that more black kids are going there.

Grosse Pointe Schools are doing just fine, as evidence by the fact they are continuously in the top 25 in the nation.

really? i would love to see a source or two for your top 25 notion....

[JenniferL]

Why do you ask?

I asked if Harper Woods took schools-of-choice kids because I've heard stories about how parents in other inner ring suburbs pull their kids out of the local public schools as soon as their district decides to open their doors to kids from Detroit.

[bartock]

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G
As a former Alumni, I heard even GP north was starting to go to crap also/




When people say G.P. North is going to crap, what they really mean is that more black kids are going there.

Grosse Pointe Schools are doing just fine, as evidence by the fact they are continuously in the top 25 in the nation.

Grosse Pointe Schools lag behind West Bloomfied, Rochester, Troy schools, just to name a few. Unless half of the school systems in the top 25 in the nation are from Michigan, I would venture to guess that this is not true.

The racial stuff is ridiculous. As much as I dislike the "you really have to be here" card, "you really have to be here." Read the WSU thread, and read Danny's comments here [[no, I do not always agree with him, but his post was right on). You have kids from the woeful DPS moving into an area and going to "better" schools. Much like WSU, many of these kids are not prepared for even secondary education, and many come from broken homes. Nobody suggested that there was more crime, gangs, danger, etc. at GPN, which are things that might suggest a race factor. It is simply a matter of diluting the talent, and just because many of the school of choice kids happen to be from Detroit or the Western side of HW, and just because many of them are black, does not mean that saying GPN is slipping academically is inherently a racial statement. Numbers are numbers, and facts are facts.

[jt1]

just because many of them are black, does not mean that saying GPN is slipping academically is inherently a racial statement. Numbers are numbers, and facts are facts.

You state numbers are numbers and facts are facts yet you don't supply either. I would also like to see support for your claim of the dsitricts you stated are better. I'm not saying they aren't but statements like that need to be supported by facts.

[bartock]

You state numbers are numbers and facts are facts yet you don't supply either. I would also like to see support for your claim of the dsitricts you stated are better. I'm not saying they aren't but statements like that need to be supported by facts.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010081...32576034691019

You can look up any school in the state. This is Grosse Pointe School District. As you can see, 12 of the 14 schools are mid 80s percentile or above. Grosse Pointe South is 96th percentile, and made it into top 15. Two schools - Grosse Pointe North [[64%) and Poupard Elementary [[68%) stick out as being far behind the rest of the district.

District numbers are harder to figure, as they are not ranked. However, Rochester schools had 3 in the top 15, as did Bloomfield Hills [[I was wrong about West Bloomfield, which I thought was the same district). Troy schools did not have three, but in those districts, you can see that overall, their school numbers were better.

[jt1]

http://www.freep.com/article/2010081...32576034691019

You can look up any school in the state. This is Grosse Pointe School District. As you can see, 12 of the 14 schools are mid 80s percentile or above. Grosse Pointe South is 96th percentile, and made it into top 15. Two schools - Grosse Pointe North [[64%) and Poupard Elementary [[68%) stick out as being far behind the rest of the district.

District numbers are harder to figure, as they are not ranked. However, Rochester schools had 3 in the top 15, as did Bloomfield Hills [[I was wrong about West Bloomfield, which I thought was the same district). Troy schools did not have three, but in those districts, you can see that overall, their school numbers were better.

What are you basing , "overall, their school numbers were better" on.

The averages for all schools in the district were as follows:

GP: 88.65
Troy: 90.19 [[Does not list anything for one school)
Rochester: 93.65 [[Does not list anything for two schools)
B Hills: 94.24 [[Does not list anything for four schools)

Overall there is not a significant gap in the schools. I do question why there are no rankings for schools in Troy, Rochester, B Hills. Is it an attempt to hide dismal numbers in certain schools?

I would also question how definitive this ranking is. The formula is based upon ELA two year averages and mathematics proficiency two year averages as well as improvement in both. Ultimately schools are impacted if they don't improve. When that doesn't take raw data into account it may be misleading. [[As an example a school with an imrpovement from 20%-30% proficiency in a two year span will get a greater bump than a school that goes from 90-95%)

All districts are very good districts and the fact that people are painting GP as a rapidly declining district that is far infererior to Troy, Rochester, etc is laughable

[jt1]

Looking into the data more. The data for the HSs is as follows [[Combined proficiency for ELA and Math):

So in comparison it appears each district has a higher performing school but the highest compare to each other and the lower compare to each other. Not that large of a discrepancy at all.

I'm not trying to attack you but it appears that there is a growing sentiment that GP must be on the downslide because of its proximity to Detroit [[which likely has a racial component to it).

There is also a mentality that assumes schools/communities are inherently better if they are in Oakland County compared to the sorry Macomb/Wayne County counterparts.

DistrictSchoolCombined proficiencyTroy School DistrictTroy High School168.1Rochester Community School DistrictRochester Adams High School166.4Bloomfield Hills School DistrictBloomfield Hills Andover H.S.161.4Grosse Pointe Public SchoolsGrosse Pointe South High School161.4Rochester Community School DistrictStoney Creek High School159.3Bloomfield Hills School DistrictBloomfield Hills Lahser H.S.149.9Troy School DistrictAthens High School147.6Grosse Pointe Public SchoolsGrosse Pointe North High School146.4Rochester Community School DistrictRochester High School140.9

[bartock]

Looking into the data more. The data for the HSs is as follows [[Combined proficiency for ELA and Math):

So in comparison it appears each district has a higher performing school but the highest compare to each other and the lower compare to each other. Not that large of a discrepancy at all.

I'm not trying to attack you but it appears that there is a growing sentiment that GP must be on the downslide because of its proximity to Detroit [[which likely has a racial component to it).

There is also a mentality that assumes schools/communities are inherently better if they are in Oakland County compared to the sorry Macomb/Wayne County counterparts.

DistrictSchoolCombined proficiencyTroy School DistrictTroy High School168.1Rochester Community School DistrictRochester Adams High School166.4Bloomfield Hills School DistrictBloomfield Hills Andover H.S.161.4Grosse Pointe Public SchoolsGrosse Pointe South High School161.4Rochester Community School DistrictStoney Creek High School159.3Bloomfield Hills School DistrictBloomfield Hills Lahser H.S.149.9Troy School DistrictAthens High School147.6Grosse Pointe Public SchoolsGrosse Pointe North High School146.4Rochester Community School DistrictRochester High School140.9

Perhaps the point wasn't made well enough, but at worse I was suggesting that GP Schools are in the same ballpark as the other schools. The poster who said that GP Schools were once top 25 in the nation, actually makes it look like they have fallen precipitously. I agree with you about the growing sentiment, and would argue [[as it seems you would) that it is misplaced as to the overall district.

I was also confirming the idea that GP North and Poupard within the GP School are more than marginally worse than comparable schools in the area. I think by any measure, those numbers suggest that.

[bartock]

What are you basing , "overall, their school numbers were better" on.

The averages for all schools in the district were as follows:

GP: 88.65
Troy: 90.19 [[Does not list anything for one school)
Rochester: 93.65 [[Does not list anything for two schools)
B Hills: 94.24 [[Does not list anything for four schools)

Overall there is not a significant gap in the schools. I do question why there are no rankings for schools in Troy, Rochester, B Hills. Is it an attempt to hide dismal numbers in certain schools?

I would also question how definitive this ranking is. The formula is based upon ELA two year averages and mathematics proficiency two year averages as well as improvement in both. Ultimately schools are impacted if they don't improve. When that doesn't take raw data into account it may be misleading. [[As an example a school with an imrpovement from 20%-30% proficiency in a two year span will get a greater bump than a school that goes from 90-95%)

All districts are very good districts and the fact that people are painting GP as a rapidly declining district that is far infererior to Troy, Rochester, etc is laughable

I agree with this and did not intend to suggest it was.