Baker's: maybe the end

**texorama** · August-20-10, 03:53 PM

http://www.freep.com/article/2010082...for-bankruptcy

**English** · August-20-10, 04:37 PM

Maybe someone will buy it... ?

LodgeDodger · August-20-10, 05:01 PM

Not for that price.

**RickBeall** · August-20-10, 05:08 PM

$450,000 for that tiny building? It is too bad that they could not have expanded, made that main room larger.

**texorama** · August-20-10, 08:53 PM

Maybe the Carhartt lady who bankrolled the jazz festival will buy it.

**mwilbert** · August-20-10, 09:19 PM

That is a lot, but I would presume you would be buying all the assets [[not just the building), and no doubt the name is worth something. The question is whether the previous owners went under because they were actually losing money on operating the business, or whether they were making an operating profit but couldn't make their debt payments. If it is the former, it is going to be tough to sell.

DetroitPole · August-20-10, 09:55 PM

What the fuck is with the management of that place? Weren't their water bills cleared by the water department? I've never gone in there and there not have been a sizable crowd. There are a hell of a lot of shittier bars in this city that continue to operate. How much does it really cost to run that place? It's not like it's cheap eats or drinks, either. Hopefully someone with their shit together can buy it.

**Jimg** · August-20-10, 10:22 PM

It's a small room, max capacity <100. John doesn't pay much to musicians, he can't afford to pay much. Lounges started to decline in the early 60s - the Rouge Lounge was in the same boat, escalating costs on all fronts forced the owner to increase the cover charge, the food/drink charge, and reduce the entertainment outlay. It's not sustainable. It's just a real shame that it's not a workable format. You're forced to use inexpensive or unknown musicians, and most folks won't shell out the cash to preview untested product...
I'll admit John can be prickly to deal with sometimes, but times are tough. I used to go frequently, but not so much in 2010.

**Bobl** · August-21-10, 12:17 AM

quote: "... It's just a real shame that it's not a workable format.."

So sad, but true. Writing has been on the wall about this place for some time. A lot of history there.

ps
Jimg, do you remember a conversation in the non conforming crib at Reef Gear?
Peace...

**Meddle** · August-21-10, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

What the fuck is with the management of that place? Weren't their water bills cleared by the water department? I've never gone in there and there not have been a sizable crowd. There are a hell of a lot of shittier bars in this city that continue to operate. How much does it really cost to run that place? It's not like it's cheap eats or drinks, either. Hopefully someone with their shit together can buy it.

DetroitDad · August-21-10, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Yeah. Freedom of speech is great, but when in Rome, you might want to do like the Romans do, if your goal is for them to lend you their ears.

While you are free to do whatever you want in this area, people seem to take excessive swearing as a disrespect to them, the issue, or the medium.

**bailey** · August-21-10, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by texorama

Maybe the Carhartt lady who bankrolled the jazz festival will buy it.

Doubtful. Gretchen owns and operates the Dirty Dog Jazz Cafe in GP. Hour's restaurant of the year this year and a great place to hear national jazz artists.

DetroitPole · August-21-10, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

Yeah. Freedom of speech is great, but when in Rome, you might want to do like the Romans do, if your goal is for them to lend you their ears.

While you are free to do whatever you want in this area, people seem to take excessive swearing as a disrespect to them, the issue, or the medium.

I understand, it is just a deeply frustrating issue for me. My first date with my first love was there and it was, like many places in Detroit, like something out of a movie. I've spent a lot of time and money there and I don't think I'm guilty of not supporting that place, and it just frustrates me that such a gem could go under, especially after it seemed they were in the clear after last year.

Some of my favorite places are outside of greater downtown too...Tom's Tavern, Scotty Simpson's, La Dolce Vita, and a bunch of little bars...it is just a shame that in a city of our size we can't sustain much of anything outside of downtown[[and even the places downtown are always shakey). I sure don't want to go to GP for my jazz when there is a place like Baker's. Jazz and Grosse Pointe? Seems really inauthentic to me.

Are they closed or are they closing?

**bailey** · August-21-10, 11:42 AM

how does the location of the venue make the jazz less authentic? If Gretchen had put the DD in Detroit, it would somehow be more "real" for you?

**1KielsonDrive** · August-21-10, 12:09 PM

What some people don't seem to realize is that we are in a TERRIBLE economy. Cities like Detroit are feeling the pinch more so than most any others. Baker's is predicated on music. Music is expensive, even when musicians work for very little. And they most often do work for very little. There are sound systems to acquire and maintain. I've been to Baker's many, many times over the years, dating back to the 60's. It's had it's share of great crowds and it's share of lean crowds. With entertainment, you work the averages. I have nothing but empathy for the owners of Baker's.

DetroitPole · August-21-10, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

how does the location of the venue make the jazz less authentic? If Gretchen had put the DD in Detroit, it would somehow be more "real" for you?

Do you really want me to elaborate? Bakers has been there for, oh, forever, first of all.

Second of all, how authentic can the jazz be in an extremely affluent old money white suburb that historically systematically excluded black people? It seems to me like the equivalent of going to Nantucket for some authentic Cajun food.

**Zacha341** · August-21-10, 04:10 PM

This is too bad. I REALLY liked the old school big band jazz groups that would frequent there at time... and the food was great. They had a great "carry-out" food business that went on during the day... not sure how many people knew that, but indeed it was very good soul food fare!

I wonder if Jackson Five Star Catering in the attached building is going to go out too? Excellent catering service!

Originally Posted by texorama

http://www.freep.com/article/2010082...for-bankruptcy

**Goose** · August-21-10, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Do you really want me to elaborate? Bakers has been there for, oh, forever, first of all.

Second of all, how authentic can the jazz be in an extremely affluent old money white suburb that historically systematically excluded black people? It seems to me like the equivalent of going to Nantucket for some authentic Cajun food.

wow, someone harbors some stereotypes of grosse pointe...

drive by 8 mile and mack at 3pm when school is getting out, doesn't look like old white money going to class there

regardless, when did jazz become a "black" thing??

one of the best local jazz musicians graduated from Grosse Pointe schools and currently lives in Harper Woods [[white)....

stop making every damn thing about race and you might enjoy life more.....

**bailey** · August-21-10, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Do you really want me to elaborate? Bakers has been there for, oh, forever, first of all.

Second of all, how authentic can the jazz be in an extremely affluent old money white suburb that historically systematically excluded black people? It seems to me like the equivalent of going to Nantucket for some authentic Cajun food.

wow. project much?

**Vic_doucette** · August-21-10, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

one of the best local jazz musicians graduated from Grosse Pointe schools and currently lives in Harper Woods [[white)....

Is he a drummer?

**Jimg** · August-21-10, 09:14 PM

Somehow, this thread veered way off course...musicians make music, not clubs, but clubs foster a certain vibe which may impact what musicians create. The irony here, which escapes some folks, is that Baker's was not at all welcoming to black folks until Solly Hartstein took over around 1960. Solly broke the door wide open...

**Goose** · August-21-10, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Vic_doucette

Is he a drummer?

pianist and composer

**Bobl** · August-22-10, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

pianist and composer

"The drummer" is quite good, too!

**mwilbert** · August-23-10, 09:06 PM

Are they closed or are they closing?

It was open last night, and it looked like it was going to be open tonight.

DetroitDad · August-23-10, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Do you really want me to elaborate? Bakers has been there for, oh, forever, first of all.

Second of all, how authentic can the jazz be in an extremely affluent old money white suburb that historically systematically excluded black people? It seems to me like the equivalent of going to Nantucket for some authentic Cajun food.

I agree with your point that history and culture make a venue, and produce artists. You can't just build another Baker's out in nowhere [[middle or the edge), not gonna happen.

Culture comes from the word cultivated, and it is cultivated through the history of place and traditional use. Jazz, like other music forms, has history and credibility on the streets of Detroit. Building a jazz club in a cow pasture or in an affluent gated community just isn't the same.

Something IS gained from authentic tradition that is never really found in Hallmark traditions.