Brick trouble at Wurlitzer

[Whitehouse]

On my way to the gym this evening, I noticed construction dudes building a scaffold walkway in front of the Wurlitzer. I figured this is probably in response to the herds of people downtown is expecting for the parade.

I then saw that the frv
ont door was open and it looked like they may be working inside, too?

I can understand the scaff tunnel for pedestrian protection from falling history [[a la the Broderick tunnel and the Metropolitan tunnel), but why would they need to be inside?

Would that kind of protection be enough if a mass of stone fell from that height? I think anything in the path of falling stone would be crushed.

[wolverine]

Depends on the type of scaffold being put up.

[mikeg19]

Is there anything going on with the building? Was downtown for Winterblast on Saturday and noticed that the whole area in front of the building is fenced off and you have to walk in the street along Broadway to get around. Is it just for protection against falling debris or is there something happening there?

[Planner3357]

The signs say "falling debris".....funny how they put it up for Winterblast and all the tourists, but for the locals they don't give a damn.

[DetroitScooter]

The walkway scaffolding was up in the fall, then removed for several productions, and has finally been reinstalled. Danny, the co-owner of 1515 Broadway, said that he heard that people have actually been looking at the Wurlitzer Building for redevelopment, and that it "wasn't too bad". He also said that he heard that the news isn't as good for the Metropolitan [[behind the Wurlitzer) was actually in worse shape than whoever was looking at it expected. He also went on that they might take the Metropolitan down as part of the restoration of the alley/parking. We are both of the opinion that they will take the Metro down over our dead bodies [[just kidding, or am I?)

[mikeg19]

The signs say "falling debris".....funny how they put it up for Winterblast and all the tourists, but for the locals they don't give a damn.

Yes you've got to love that! I did see that sign posted on the Metropolitan when we walked by, I must have missed it on the Wurlitzer due to being pissed because DBC was charging $5 to walk in the door during Winterblast and NO other bar we went to was.

[esp1986]

The walkway scaffolding was up in the fall, then removed for several productions, and has finally been reinstalled. Danny, the co-owner of 1515 Broadway, said that he heard that people have actually been looking at the Wurlitzer Building for redevelopment, and that it "wasn't too bad". He also said that he heard that the news isn't as good for the Metropolitan [[behind the Wurlitzer) was actually in worse shape than whoever was looking at it expected. He also went on that they might take the Metropolitan down as part of the restoration of the alley/parking. We are both of the opinion that they will take the Metro down over our dead bodies [[just kidding, or am I?)

It has been no secret that there are significant issues with the Metropolitan Building. The Wurlitzer, in addition to facade issues, has been rumored to have significant foundational issues. The Metropolitan, has far larger facade issues. Significant chunks of bricks have fallen from nearly every outside wall, and even the netting that the DEGC installed has failed to slow the deterioration of the facade. The Metropolitan also has awfully low ceilings, providing little clearance for HVAC, among other things. The city, possibly through the DEGC, owns the Metropolitan, but one developer has had an option on the property for sometime now, and still holds the rights to the building. Every so often he has been trying to make the numbers work, but as the building continues to deteriorate, so have the hopes of putting a financially viable project together.

To be honest, if they can save one of those two buildings at the cost of the other, I would be all for it. They were both, at one time, beautiful buildings, and it would be ashame to see either one go, but if I had to pick one, I would rather see the Wurlitzer stay because of it's Broadway frontage... I hate seeing prime frontage of the nice drags like Broadway being occupied by parking lots, and if they were to use the Metropolitan site as parking lot, it would kind of hide it from the majority of traffic.

It is unfortunate, but the reality is, we aren't going to be able to save everything.

[DetroitScooter]

I hear you esp1986, but unless we present a [[somewhat) united front, I fear that they will come in a do a Lafayette, or even worse a Madison-Lennox on one or both of them. I feel that both buildings are unique, historical and worth saving. You're right that a surface lot on Broadway would be bad news [[across from the Opera House deck, a very well-run facility), but there is already a vacant, fenced lot to the south of the Wurlitzer. It's the home of the Kwame <3 Bubba graffiti that I love to show visitors...

[cramerro]

Just in: Judge ordered the the building owner must do fixes immediately and repay the COD for the fencing it put up a while back.

Here's the articles from News and FP. Who knows if anything will come of it - almost afraid this will mean it gets demolished.

FP http://www.freep.com/article/2011071...text|FRONTPAGE

DN http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...itzer-Building

[Wesley Mouch]

Years of neglect will do that to any building. Let's face it. Detroit have buildings that are standing on its last legs. Not every building can be the Book Cadillac or the Fort Shelby. Some buildings like the Wurlitzer need to come down and sadly nature will bring the building down before the city will.

How do we educate people about what constitutes a quality building?

Brick cladding pulling away from a building has NOTHING to do with whether the building needs to be demolished. That would be like demolishing the building because the roof has a leak.

Everyone needs to stop worrying that just because some brick falls, it means anything at all about structural integrity. It does not. Every brick can fall, and the steel superstructure of most buildings will stand.

Now of course the bricks falling are deadly. And facade failure is an indication of pathetic maintenance. That same water-intrusion can and will get to the steel eventually.

The Wurlitzer building is every bit as high-quality as the Fort Shelby or Book Cadillac. Steel superstructure, concrete fireproofing, and masonry cladding.

The only reason we didn't see this with those buildings is that they were probably better maintained during their lifetime. If you do maintenance to a masonry-clad building, it will last forever. If you don't, then the brick cladding will fall eventually.

[Hypestyles]

what are the proposed possibilities of a new business occupation if it is finally renovated?

[rjlj]

Strongly Agree.

How do we educate people about what constitutes a quality building?

Brick cladding pulling away from a building has NOTHING to do with whether the building needs to be demolished. That would be like demolishing the building because the roof has a leak.

Everyone needs to stop worrying that just because some brick falls, it means anything at all about structural integrity. It does not. Every brick can fall, and the steel superstructure of most buildings will stand.

Now of course the bricks falling are deadly. And facade failure is an indication of pathetic maintenance. That same water-intrusion can and will get to the steel eventually.

The Wurlitzer building is every bit as high-quality as the Fort Shelby or Book Cadillac. Steel superstructure, concrete fireproofing, and masonry cladding.

The only reason we didn't see this with those buildings is that they were probably better maintained during their lifetime. If you do maintenance to a masonry-clad building, it will last forever. If you don't, then the brick cladding will fall eventually.

[Gistok]

One would have guessed that bricks falling over 20 years ago from the United Artists Building would have spelled the demise of that building. Likely the engineers who Mike Ilitch hired before starting any work on the building told him otherwise. Hence the new roof and facade/interior work. Has it still been quiet over there lately?

[Hypestyles]

One would have guessed that bricks falling over 20 years ago from the United Artists Building would have spelled the demise of that building. Likely the engineers who Mike Ilitch hired before starting any work on the building told him otherwise. Hence the new roof and facade/interior work. Has it still been quiet over there lately?

ilitch owns this? curious.. hope it gets fully renovated sooner than later..

[Jimaz]

ilitch owns this? curious.. hope it gets fully renovated sooner than later..

From Detnews: Judge: Fix Wurlitzer Building

Wayne County Circuit Judge Robert Colombo ordered the company that owns the "dangerous" Wurlitzer Building on Broadway to fix the problems within 90 days or face contempt of court charges, chastising one of the owners for a "total lack of responsibility."

"He has basically ignored these violations," Colombo said. A city building inspector has cited Paul Curtis, the managing member of 1509 Broadway LLC, three times since October 2008 with emergency violations on the Wurlitzer, including crumbling bricks on the facade and a dangling fire escape....

But Curtis, who is an attorney,....

Curtis is married to Wayne County Circuit Judge Daphne Means Curtis, who records indicate has had an interest in the building.

It's always interesting to have judges on both sides of the bench.

I don't recall ever seeing Ilitch associated with this building.

[Gistok]

ilitch owns this? curious.. hope it gets fully renovated sooner than later..

OK before this thread gets any more ambiguous... my comments were only about the UA Building with its' problems with falling bricks back in the 1980s.... and how it's not too far gone... otherwise he would not have bothered with new roofs on the office and theatre portions of the building as well as interior cleaning and some renovation work.

Hypestyles... were you also referring to that one or to the Wurlitzer... which the Ilitch's have no ownership in...

[rjlj]

Wurlitzer update. I like how the Freep is keeping on top of this.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011072...xt|FRONTPAGE|s

[ghettopalmetto]

How do we educate people about what constitutes a quality building?

Brick cladding pulling away from a building has NOTHING to do with whether the building needs to be demolished. That would be like demolishing the building because the roof has a leak.

Everyone needs to stop worrying that just because some brick falls, it means anything at all about structural integrity. It does not. Every brick can fall, and the steel superstructure of most buildings will stand.

Now of course the bricks falling are deadly. And facade failure is an indication of pathetic maintenance. That same water-intrusion can and will get to the steel eventually.

The Wurlitzer building is every bit as high-quality as the Fort Shelby or Book Cadillac. Steel superstructure, concrete fireproofing, and masonry cladding.

The only reason we didn't see this with those buildings is that they were probably better maintained during their lifetime. If you do maintenance to a masonry-clad building, it will last forever. If you don't, then the brick cladding will fall eventually.

For starters, any sort of historic preservation ordinance with teeth would require the written opinion of a licensed Professional Engineer with regards to structural integrity. In that way, you avoid the scads of armchair engineers [[George Jackson) who don't exactly make decisions with a full array of facts.

Disclosure: While I am a structural engineer, I'm not licensed in the State of Michigan, so do not consider my statement above to be a solicitation for work or as advocating my own self-interest.

[Rocko]

For starters, any sort of historic preservation ordinance with teeth would require the written opinion of a licensed Professional Engineer with regards to structural integrity. In that way, you avoid the scads of armchair engineers [[George Jackson) who don't exactly make decisions with a full array of facts.

And such a report would likely come back: "Structure, good condition." "Exterior masonry facing, peeling away but in good shape." Masonry is removed and reanchored all the time to historic buildings. The fact is that the metal anchors often wear out long before the masonry [[brick, stone, terra cotta, etc.) and mortar does. It's no problem to pull the masonry off, pull the old anchors, put in new stainless anchors, and reassemble the face.

Historic Preservation: not as dumb as you might think!

[downtown_racine]

Yea water intrusion for 27 years is no problem, "good old iron" in there.
Its easy just add 50 million.

[wolverine]

I said this before but the city needs to push back really hard on building owners that have dangerous structures that pose a direct threat to the public.

Failure to stabilize and provide protective barriers within a certain amount of time should result in steep fines

$500/day for an ordinance violation
$10,000/day for hazardous conditions

Failure to pay the fines, your building gets condemned. Sucks in the case of where tenants are there and they get evicted, but saving lives is better.

[Cushkid]

I said this before but the city needs to push back really hard on building owners that have dangerous structures that pose a direct threat to the public.

Failure to stabilize and provide protective barriers within a certain amount of time should result in steep fines

$500/day for an ordinance violation
$10,000/day for hazardous conditions

Failure to pay the fines, your building gets condemned. Sucks in the case of where tenants are there and they get evicted, but saving lives is better.

The only problem is once the city condems it, they can't afford the upkeep and the building is just as dangerous.

[rms]

With all the work going on in this block lately [[Broderick Tower and Madison Theater) I got excited one morning when en route to the gym I noticed that the scaffolding out in front of the Wurlitzer had been repositioned. Then a couple of days later, I was horrified to see that the sidewalk overhang had been taken off. The I beams looked like they'd been sawed off flush with the building. Has anyone heard of any recent plans for the Wurlitzer Building?

[mcsdetroitfriend]

With all the work going on in this block lately [[Broderick Tower and Madison Theater) I got excited one morning when en route to the gym I noticed that the scaffolding out in front of the Wurlitzer had been repositioned. Then a couple of days later, I was horrified to see that the sidewalk overhang had been taken off. The I beams looked like they'd been sawed off flush with the building. Has anyone heard of any recent plans for the Wurlitzer Building?

Please don't delete my reply Lowell/Mod, the user obviously did not read the rest of this post, he will likely find his questions answered in the other pages here

[rms]

Please don't delete my reply Lowell/Mod, the user obviously did not read the rest of this post, he will likely find his questions answered in the other pages here

Scanned most of the 3 pages of older messages. I didn't read all of the embedded news paper articles, but scanned some of those too. I get it. The building has issues. The court ordered the owner to do some repairs. Most everything written has been about the bricks falling or that potential. There was no obvious sign that the awning over the entry was failing. Where on some buildings you see where the supports are pulling away or the awning is sagging. If someone has commented on the awning specifically I must have missed it. A lot of the posts seem speculative to me - not someone with inside info. I was just fishing to see if anyone knew that the awning was actually unsafe and part of what was ordered to be repaired or removed.