President Obama stands up for Ground Zero mosque

[Jimaz]

The Word - Weapon of Mass Construction

[jerrytimes]

Nice job barnesfoto at trying to make this a Republican bashing topic, which it isn't since there are people on both sides of the party lines that all have different opinions on this topic. Also, nice trying to say that Republicans are against immigration, which is also a lie. They are against illegal immigrants being here. I don't know one Republican or conservative leaning person, whom is against legal immigrants. I also know a lot of Democrats whom agree with legal immigration and legal immigration only. Again, that is a topic when brought to the American people and not just politicians, people on both sides mostly agree with getting illegals out, and letting all legal immigrants in.

Also, you mentioned something about that nobody should be denying any religious group the right to build a building in America, unless it's on a public school playground. Number one, you can't do that because it's the public schools property and number two, if it was the property directly across or next to a public school, I bet you there would be some opposition in some areas of the country.

[Detroitej72]

Sure, I agree with some more than others, but I'm not a one sided close minded individual.

Then, if you though Bush was a good president, you should like Obama, since he has pretty much carried on with the Bush agenda.

He has not closed Gitmo, has kept Bush's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan going, and continued the Bush Wall Street Bailouts. Hell, much of the health care bill that passed was taken from John McCain's plan he presented during the campaign.

Most folks who whine about Obama think Bush was great, while failing to see that little has changed.

[gazhekwe]

They will be in good company, lots of opportunities for worship of your choice in proximity with Ground Zero.


Agudath Israel of America 42 Broadway Fl 14, New York, NY
Trinity Church 74 Trinity Pl Rm 1610, New York, NY
United Jewish Communities 25 Broadway Fl 17, New York, NY
Orthodox Union,11 Broadway Ste 1301, New York, NY
Our Lady of Victory Church 60 William St, New York, NY
Battery Park Synagogue 385 S End Ave, New York, NY
Our Lady of the Rosary 7 State St, New York, NY
Evangelical Assembly 74 Trinity Pl, New York, NY
St Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church 155 Cedar St, New York, NY
Faith Evangelistic Ministries 90 William St Frnt 2, New York, NY
Intervarsity Christian Fllwshp 74 Trinity Pl Rm 600, New York, NY
Torah Schools For Israel 40 Exchange Pl Ste 1403, New York, NY
Collegiate Reformed Church 45 John St Rm 804, New York, NY

The bold type is a function of the cut and paste from Bing, no emphasis was intended by me.

The address of the proposed Islamic Center is 45 Park Place.

[gnome]

It is a local issue. Decided by New Yorkers for New Yorkers. period.

Mr. Obama should keep his nose out of local politics because when he does step in, it causes something local to become global.

[jerrytimes]

Then, if you though Bush was a good president, you should like Obama, since he has pretty much carried on with the Bush agenda.

He has not closed Gitmo, has kept Bush's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan going, and continued the Bush Wall Street Bailouts. Hell, much of the health care bill that passed was taken from John McCain's plan he presented during the campaign.

Most folks who whine about Obama think Bush was great, while failing to see that little has changed.

I don't think Bush was great. I liked him in the first term, and was highly against him by the end of his second.

[jerrytimes]

It is a local issue. Decided by New Yorkers for New Yorkers. period.

Mr. Obama should keep his nose out of local politics because when he does step in, it causes something local to become global.

That is very true, but the majority of New Yorkers are against it as well.

[jerrytimes]

Interesting article that was posted by NBC

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...-97602569.html

[gazhekwe]

This one is interesting as well:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...m?csp=obinsite

[jerrytimes]

This one is interesting as well:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...m?csp=obinsite

I read that one, it was interesting. Notice the headline. The article that you posted says "Some" in the headline, the article that I posted says "Most".

[barnesfoto]

Nice job barnesfoto at trying to make this a Republican bashing topic

If I have to keep reading the usual muslim bashing drivel from you righties, it's only fitting that I give credit to the party that used my tax dollars to fund muslim fanatics, and now fear pimps muslims.

Also, nice trying to say that Republicans are against immigration, which is also a lie. They are against illegal immigrants being here.

Gosh, wasn't the USA founded by illegal immigrants? And if Repuglicans are not against immigration, why are they blocking Immigration Reform, which would streamline America's gridlocked immigration laws?



Just for the record I'm curious to know which conservocrites are going to rally to support the rights of gay businesspeople to open "Outfidels" next to the community center?

[oladub]

Gosh, wasn't the USA founded by illegal immigrants? And if Repuglicans are not against immigration, why are they blocking Immigration Reform, which would streamline America's gridlocked immigration laws?

Just for the record I'm curious to know which conservocrites are going to rally to support the rights of gay businesspeople to open "Outfidels" next to the community center?

jerrytime, barnesphoto has just vindicated your comment, "Nice job barnesfoto at trying to make this a Republican bashing topic."

The US was largely made up of former British citizens at it's inception. Many who wanted to retain their British ties left and were often encouraged to do so.

For what its worth, the Constitution fully protects the 'in your face' establishment of an Islamic recreation center in the shadow of an Islamic travesty. President Obama is correct about that and is well within his rights to comment on the issue.

[jerrytimes]

If I have to keep reading the usual muslim bashing drivel from you righties.....
Gosh, wasn't the USA founded by illegal immigrants? And if Repuglicans are not against immigration, why are they blocking Immigration Reform, which would streamline America's gridlocked immigration laws?

First off, I've not once bashed a Muslim or their faith, and second while I did say that I have more conservative views, I'm no where near a 'righty'.
Second, no the USA wasn't founded by illegal immigrants. The land was discovered and was made into territories and our founding fathers made it the USA. It wasn't a country before that. Also, with that line of thought that you are putting into that comment, every country would have been founded by illegals, wouldn't it. At one point every country was founded by people that migrated from somewhere, just in the case of most other countries, it happened thousands of years before it did here.

[barnesfoto]

The US was largely made up of former British citizens at it's inception.

The US was largely made up of Native Americans at it's inception. The illegals who arrived on the Mayflower [[one of whom was my ancestor) did not have visas to enter so called "Indian" Territory, they just showed up with excuses about why they could not simply work for change in England.

http://www.hiddenhistory.com/page3/ww-mass.htm


http://www.americanrevolution.org/ind1.html

I'm no where near a 'righty

Yeah, it's funny how many of you guys are describing yourselves as "independents". Seems to be the lapel de jour, or maybe that's what people are getting paid to post these days.

Anyway, if you are not a "righty", why wouldn't you support immigration reform, which would ease the gridlocked immigration laws?

Surely you'll agree that it was a mistake for the Raygun Gang [[many of whom later showed up in the Bush Admin) to fund Islamic Fanatics during the Soviet Occupation of A-stan? Don't they owe the American People an apology for funding Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who is now near the top of the "Enemies of the US in Afghanistan" list?
And surely you and our so-called "libertarian" friend Ola will support Greg's proposal to open "Outfidels", an establishment catering to gay muslims, next to the proposed community center?

[gibran]

to be fair ... many other friends have clandestinely supported radicals...Israel helped create Hezbollah when they invaded Lebanon in the guise of liberating the southern Shia [[little did they know whatthey created)...and they supported prehamas to balance PLO and the moderates...funny how these groups come back to bite... maybe we could learn the roots of terrorism is oppression and the ideology that people escape to when oppressed...

The early Jewish terrorists [[stern and ingrun etc)...another example of how oppression drove people to radical violence for a nationalistic cause...

my point is why radicalize moderates here ...why drive people to hidden mosques or for that matter churches [[Aryan nation ones) or even radical temples [[by the way any temple here that sends monies to build settlements should be considered for tax purposes too)...in an open society we should respect each others rights..instead of radicalizing them.

I do understand the pain of the families...but we should reachout to them with olive braches instead of exploiting them like the republicans and some others... I dont see it as in your face oladub..what I see is a palce for people to address their fears and come and dialog vs. ideolog.

Todays headlines Mosque to beocme focal point in midterm elections...how thoughtful is that?

[jiminnm]

jerrytimes, you have to understand that, according to barnesfoto, everything that was ever wrong with the US, is wrong today and will ever be wrong in the future is the fault of Ronald Reagan [[or Ray-Gun as he so often states).

[RaumVogel]

The address of the proposed Islamic Center is 45 Park Place.

OK, lighten up people...let's have a sing along!
If you're blue and you don't know where to go to
why don't you go where fashion sits,
Puttin' on the ritz.

Different types who wear a day coat, pants with stripes
and cutaway coat, perfect fits,
Puttin' on the ritz.

Dressed up like a million dollar trouper
Trying hard to look like Gary Cooper [[super duper)

Come let's mix where Rockefellers walk with sticks
or "umberellas" in their mitts,
Puttin' on the ritz.

Have you seen the well-to-do up and down Park Avenue
On that famous thoroughfare with their noses in the air
High hats and Arrow collars white spats and lots of dollars
Spending every dime for a wonderful time

If you're blue and you don't know where to go to
why don't you go where fashion sits,
Puttin' on the ritz.
Puttin' on the ritz.
Puttin' on the ritz.

[jerrytimes]

Yeah, it's funny how many of you guys are describing yourselves as "independents". Seems to be the lapel de jour, or maybe that's what people are getting paid to post these days.

Anyway, if you are not a "righty", why wouldn't you support immigration reform, which would ease the gridlocked immigration laws?

Listen, you don't need to believe me on where I stand politically. I could care less if you do. In my personal opinion Independents are more open than any Dem or Repub. I, and I'm sure you do to, know people that walk into that voting booth and pull the party handle. I bet tons of thought went into their vote... But that's their right. I've voted for both Republicans and Democrats, admittedly more for Republicans. I do support immigration reform, but that doesn't mean that I believe that all the illegals that are currently here should just be allowed to stay. I'm for legal immigration, just like how my ancestors came. Bush and Obama for the most part did and have done nothing to secure our borders, which is why we are where we are today..... That's a whole other topic though.

[barnesfoto]

jerrytimes, you have to understand that, according to barnesfoto, everything that was ever wrong with the US, is wrong today and will ever be wrong in the future is the fault of Ronald Reagan [[or Ray-Gun as he so often states)

.

And of course, Jim, being a good cultist, would prefer not to discuss the policy failures of his cult and one of its most revered icons [[again see: funding of Islamofacists, funding of dictators and thugs, endless war, endless deregulation, endless tax cuts) nor would he care to discuss his cults' endless and mindless circles of fear pimping, beginning with Joe McCarthy, but instead would encourage others outside his cult to embrace the idea of a sense of responsibility, [[for minorities and the poor, not for cult members or corporations) and less government regulation [[of corporations, but greater regulation of the hardest possible things to regulate, like human migration, human sexual activity and human self-medication).

I realize that in my defense of the constitution, my advocacy of Jim's cult stepping up and taking responsibility for their crimes, my criticism of foolish fearmongering and foolish militaristic crusades and in my advocacy of relaxed government regulations in terms of immigration [[and in especially my defending the rights of a gay conservative to open a club catering to gay muslims next to the proposed community center), I might appear to be embracing true conservative or libertarian ideals. I am terribly sorry.

[firstandten]

This is just another in the line of political wedge issues that the Repubs are trying to generate in advance of the the Nov elections. The reality is that there is two issues to this that Pres Obama addressed, one is the religious freedom issue in which he is correct and the other was is it a wise thing to do which Obama did not comment on and won't. That is a local issue for the locals to decide. People like Mayor Bloomberg who supports it and the project detractors should come to an agreement.

But understand the total situation. There is another mosque 4 blocks aways and yet another one 12 blocks away from ground zero. This one is 2 blocks away[[ there's also a strip club nearby should we be upset about that also). The mosque is only a small part of the project. There is going to be a community center along the lines of a jewish community center or YMCA. The board of directors for the center will include christians, jews and muslins.

I could see people being upset if the planned mosque/community center was planned to be built on the WTC conplex but its not . Islam has its lunatic fringe just like all the other major religions of the world. You can't paint all muslins with a broad brush.

[Zacha341]

Compelling points. As I've mentioned before "...expression of concern [must be] accounted for" by some party affiliation which defines/ owns the 'expression' in the first place. Hah!

So... here we go: the left agrees that this is thus, and the right believes the other... there can be no admixture. Oh no - never! Everyone's locked, less they're less loyal to their party [[heaven forbid) or perceived values.

So long as critism re. public policy, immigration reform and other issues can be walled off [[summarized) as "teabagged, right-winged and or rush limbaugh" inspired, consideration of the criticism or warning will be dismissed. The so-called right is given "ownership" of issues that should be of bipartisan concern... That's just were we are sadly. And our enemies and detractors know it.

I tend to maintain a 'watchful' eye over both the dems and repubs relative to these kinds of things though I am a card carrying democrat. Therefore, I'm far less 'surprised' when the dems shape/ shift and start acting conservative or "Bushy" as they say. I'll be owned by neither party... to assume one parties benevolence over the others parties prescribed constriction. I try to vote per issue and specific candidate.

Listen, you don't need to believe me on where I stand politically. I could care less if you do. In my personal opinion Independents are more open than any Dem or Repub. I, and I'm sure you do to, know people that walk into that voting booth and pull the party handle. I bet tons of thought went into their vote... But that's their right. I've voted for both Republicans and Democrats, admittedly more for Republicans. I do support immigration reform, but that doesn't mean that I believe that all the illegals that are currently here should just be allowed to stay. I'm for legal immigration, just like how my ancestors came. Bush and Obama for the most part did and have done nothing to secure our borders, which is why we are where we are today..... That's a whole other topic though.

[maxx]

http://gothamist.com/2010/08/06/muse...tolerate_g.php

"Wait, Wait, don't tell me" had a joke about this. It was something about an exhibit on this story showing at the Museum of Irony.

[gibran]

In defense of Barnes I personally agree that most of what is wrong lately has links to the Reagan years where the neocons fermented waiting for the Bush Jr... [[ Personally liked Papa Bush despite some of his policies). I also lay blame to the xenophobia that has always been there with the tea party [[even though a new name) likes...driving wedges against the moderates and even more so liberals..with their false patriotism and protective stance against new comers and change. Finally, the demo"scaredy cats" who have thrown both Carter and now Obama under the bus out of fear of being politically incorrect and offending the neocons. Who had a chance to bring leverage and middle-east peace and step up for the environment and medical care [[ this is a moral obligation) for all citizens...cowards and paid off lackeys... we finally have a president with a vision for all Americans and the Democrats blew it ...and the republicans exploited it and become the biggest group of hypocrites ever. Not , that I am angry...I have hope that moderates tale this back in both parties before they fall to the idiots of the extremes...and the likes of the tea party,,, This Mosque issue show how little we really understand each other and how easily we are driven by emotion... The memory of everyone who has died at and since 9/11 is shouldn't be shrouded with the hate...yes we get it; that a group of haters from the fringes of the Islamic world raised their ugly heads...and should be smashed. But, read Zinn and his take and you will realize that we are just creating an army of these bastards everytime we drop a bomb [[ for vengence and revenge) and it blows up a family or "collateral" damage... all for the neocons whose patience was rewarded by these conflicts..and whose profits have been increased...Bet you didn't know that most of our 5% percent wealthiest people and 20% of Israel's have ties to the military industrial complexs and we wonder why this has been a ten year war?

Back to the Mosque issue; the above groups are perpetuating this hate fo all things Muslim to justify the fear mongering..when it would be simpler to root out the causes of terroism....oppression and ideology that is it's byproduct.

[oladub]

[quote=barnesfoto;173088]The US was largely made up of Native Americans at it's inception. quote]

No, it was made up of mostly former British subjects at it's inception. As usual, you have a problem with differentiating the United States from North America. The US is a country within North America. In 1776 there were more former British colonists in the US than American Indians. It is estimated that there were at a maximum, 18M American Indians in the territory of all contiguous 48 states and 89-90% of them died of smallpox and other newly introduced diseases well before 1776 when the US was created out of 13 colonies. The first census in 1790 recorded 3.1 whites and .75M blacks fourteen years later. I can't find any numbers suggesting there were more American Indians in those 13 states at that time.

[Detroitej72]

In 1776 there were more former British colonists in the US than American Indians.

I think his point was that the colonists were the first illegal immigrants in America.