Goodbye Delray

[kraig]

I hope everyone is noticing that now that it's time for the money to get spent the meetings aren't taking place on the Southwest Side.

So, they come to us so that we can block Matty Moroun. They come to us to garner support for a publicly financed bridge [[financed not owned, it will be sold to some group just like the toll road in Illinois sooner rather than later) even though there is zero ownership for the City of Detroit. In fact, the City of Detroit's primary role in all of this will be to block Matty Moroun and kick all of the businesses and residents out of the Delray area, and that's it. But, they don't come to us when the opportunity to make money is discussed.

Everyone needs to pay very close attention to what getting used by politicians looks like. I bet you the Southwest Detroit Business Association [[you know the group that finances the campaigns of Toboccman and Tlaib) are going to get a piece of the pie.







The Detroit Regional Chamber
interested professionals in the finance, construction
contracting, engineering/architecture, and legal communities
for a
is hosting
The Michigan Department of Transportation
and
Public Forum on the Detroit River International Crossing Project.
The project was formally approved on January 14, 2009, by the Michigan and
U.S. Departments of Transportation. It includes a new bridge between Detroit,
Michigan and Windsor, Canada. The project also includes a new U.S. Customs
plaza and an interchange with I-75. The estimated cost for the U.S. portion of
the project is $1.8 billion.
The Forum will be held on April 23, 2009, from 1-3 p.m. at the Detroit Regional
Chamber's office located at One Woodward Avenue, 19th floor.
Interested parties should pre-register at
ASCHROED@detroitchamber.com
to receive more information and details on the Public Forum.
PUBLIC FORUM
AN INVITATION TO A

[rb336]

there are still residences and businesses in delray?

sorry, I know there are, but that is one area where the residents would benefit from getting bought out

[Andrew in Windsor]

How would they benefit if they are given "fair market value"? Where could you move to with a check for $10 or $15k?

[edw]

Where could you move to with a check for $10 or $15k?

just about anywhere else in the city.

[gumby]

How would they benefit if they are given "fair market value"? Where could you move to with a check for $10 or $15k?

Well they could move to many of the other crappy neighborhoods in Detroit where houses go for under $1000. Look I love Detroit as much as the next guy but lets face it Delray is a cesspool and there are many other cesspools in the city with just as cheap housing.

Hell I live in probably the best neighborhood in Flint [[College/Cultural) and my grandparents still managed to get the house next door to mine for $30,000.

[kraig]

there are still residences and businesses in delray?

sorry, I know there are, but that is one area where the residents would benefit from getting bought out

No they won't. Eminent Domain does not work well in Detroit, it never has. They're not going to get the assessed value, they're going to get the amount the homes were bought for 20-30 years ago. Which won't be enough to buy a new home and a lot of the residents are too old and don't have the income to take out 30 year mortgages. They're done, no one in authority is going to look out for them. Maryann Mahaffey probably would have were she still alive, but no one on this City Council will. They see the DRIC as a good thing simply because it messes with Matty Maroun, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Joann Watson and Barbara Rose-Collins should be very happy and proud of themselves. They've wanted another Paradise Valley and they're going to get it in a manner of speaking. The same way Paradise Valley was torn apart for the freeways and the people were thrown out of the area, Delray will be torn apart and the people will be thrown out.

Onward Christian Soldiers, yeah right.

[rb336]

No they won't. Eminent Domain does not work well in Detroit, it never has. They're not going to get the assessed value, they're going to get the amount the homes were bought for 20-30 years ago. .

and what, exactly, is a house in delray going for these days?

[kraig]

and what, exactly, is a house in delray going for these days?

More than they're going to get. If you ever have the opportunity, talk to someone that lived in Poletown or Graimark [[now Jefferson Village) areas. They'll give you an earful.

[LodgeDodger]

there are still residences and businesses in delray?

sorry, I know there are, but that is one area where the residents would benefit from getting bought out

Hey now, people have their homes there! A place a person calls home is just that, a home.

[Gistok]

I'm not thrilled about another neighborhood [[Delray) being torn up for a publicly financed bridge... no matter how crappy we think Delray is. After all there are folks living there. [[It's always easier with it involves disrupting other people rather than ourselves.)

But I wonder how much the "public" bridge will end up costing the taxpayers. For some reason when the government is involved in things... prices go up.

And here's a thought... what if Maroun tells potential buyers of the bonds needed for this new bridge that he will undercut the price of crossing his own bridge [[to stay competetive), even if it means pricing it below the lowest point where a return to the bondholders of the new bridge is possible.

Couldn't that keep potential buyers of new bridge bonds away?

I do believe that there are many things that Maroun could have up his sleeve to keep a non-Maroun bridge from being built.

[Danny]

Delray is dead! gobbled up by pre and post-industrial waste, turning it into a world's biggest toilet!

[kraig]

I'm not thrilled about another neighborhood [[Delray) being torn up for a publicly financed bridge... no matter how crappy we think Delray is. After all there are folks living there. [[It's always easier with it involves disrupting other people rather than ourselves.)

But I wonder how much the "public" bridge will end up costing the taxpayers. For some reason when the government is involved in things... prices go up.

And here's a thought... what if Maroun tells potential buyers of the bonds needed for this new bridge that he will undercut the price of crossing his own bridge [[to stay competetive), even if it means pricing it below the lowest point where a return to the bondholders of the new bridge is possible.

Couldn't that keep potential buyers of new bridge bonds away?

I do believe that there are many things that Maroun could have up his sleeve to keep a non-Maroun bridge from being built.

The study for the DRIC already cost us 35 million. And if it's ever audited they'll never be able to justify the cost. But, if you really want to see something funny, watch the City Planning Commission Director and staff anytime the DRIC is brought up by Council. They never give Council real information on the DRIC and will immediately mention the Ambassador Bridge. It's like a word association exercise.

CC Question: What's the environmental impact of the DRIC project?

CPC Answer: The Coast Guard has some questions about the Ambassador Bridge.

[gnome]

Silly me, I didn't know Dan Stamper was a forum member.

[kraig]

Silly me, I didn't know Dan Stamper was a forum member.

I'm too damn broke to be confused with Dan Stamper. But, seeing how you're deflecting my comments by associating them with the Bridge, I could easily accuse you of working for the CPC.

But, who you are and who you work for isn't an issue for me. I'm more interested in your opinion. Or are you just interested in taking shots at people and deflecting from the issue that the people living in Delray deserve a whole lot more in the way of consideration and representation than what they're currently getting.

[SWMAP]

Kraig: you keep ragging on about SWBA being the prime movers/funders of Tobocman and Tlaib - what do you mean by that - as if it is a smear.

I live in SW Detroit [[Vernor/Junction). I was happy to contribute to Steve Tobocman's campaigns and other fund-raising. He was a great representative in Lansing; he remains in the neighborhood where he is hugely respected for hard work and his fine mind. As to Tlaib, I don't know yet - but she is fierce for SW Detroit and I will contribute to her fund-raising in the future.

Who was the little small-minded woman who represented our district before Tobocman? Can't remember her name, but I do know that she sent her son as a fugitive to Mexico when he murdered a someone in our neighborhood.

I was at some civic meetings with her. Her illiterate boyfriend [[it was obvious) was her chief of staff. they took food from the buffet and put it in her purse. They spoke poorly and had nothing but pedestrian ideas and they parroted some party line. I was embarrased.

Then there was the guy who ran against Tobocman. He was Kilpatrick's choice and he was a threatener of anyone who didn't stay on board with Kilpatrick - and I know it for a fact.

If SDBA supports Tobocman and Tlaib - I say that we should thank them and respect them.

[kraig]

Kraig: you keep ragging on about SWBA being the prime movers/funders of Tobocman and Tlaib - what do you mean by that - as if it is a smear.

I live in SW Detroit [[Vernor/Junction). I was happy to contribute to Steve Tobocman's campaigns and other fund-raising. He was a great representative in Lansing; he remains in the neighborhood where he is hugely respected for hard work and his fine mind. As to Tlaib, I don't know yet - but she is fierce for SW Detroit and I will contribute to her fund-raising in the future.

Who was the little small-minded woman who represented our district before Tobocman? Can't remember her name, but I do know that she sent her son as a fugitive to Mexico when he murdered a someone in our neighborhood.

I was at some civic meetings with her. Her illiterate boyfriend [[it was obvious) was her chief of staff. they took food from the buffet and put it in her purse. They spoke poorly and had nothing but pedestrian ideas and they parroted some party line. I was embarrased.

Then there was the guy who ran against Tobocman. He was Kilpatrick's choice and he was a threatener of anyone who didn't stay on board with Kilpatrick - and I know it for a fact.

If SDBA supports Tobocman and Tlaib - I say that we should thank them and respect them.

You go ahead and thank them if that's what you want to do. But ask yourself this. Besides opposing Matty Moroun, which is real easy to do, what have they actually accomplished? Hell, I can complain about something, I do it on this forum along with others on this forum all the time. But it's their job to actually get things done. Where was Toboccman when the Air Quality Monitors were being taken out of the Southwest area in 2007? Had Matty Maroun been the one removing the Air Quality Monitors, Toboccman would have had 200 public hearings on it. It's more to representing an area than railing against someone that's unpopular.

As for the Southwest Detroit Business Association, Kathy Wendler was on the board of the City Planning Commission for years [[where was the ethics investigation on that?) as they received far more money than any other group on the Southwest Side and some of their resources went into helping Steve Toboccman.

You should have kept your check, you tax dollars already had that campaign covered.

[SWMAP]

"Where was Tobocman when the air quality monitors were taken out in 2007?"

I am uncertain about what this refers to. Do you mean when the study begun in 2004 and ended in 2007 closed? Or were other, ostensibly permanent MDEQ air monitoring sites closed in Detroit?

I never thought that there was a station in Detroit. I understood that the station was in Allen Park and that the EPA study established air monitoring stations for three years for the purpose of the study.

[kraig]

"Where was Tobocman when the air quality monitors were taken out in 2007?"

I am uncertain about what this refers to. Do you mean when the study begun in 2004 and ended in 2007 closed? Or were other, ostensibly permanent MDEQ air monitoring sites closed in Detroit?

I never thought that there was a station in Detroit. I understood that the station was in Allen Park and that the EPA study established air monitoring stations for three years for the purpose of the study.

There was more than one. Once I find the information I'll post it. You seem pretty well informed as to what's going on in the area. I would love to hear your opinions on both Delray and the fact that the opportunities for work, as far as the DRIC, are not being discussed on the Southwest side.

[rb336]

More than they're going to get. If you ever have the opportunity, talk to someone that lived in Poletown or Graimark [[now Jefferson Village) areas. They'll give you an earful.

Those were much more vibrant communities at the time

[edw]

yeah i find you comparison of Delray and urban renewal disingenuous at best and somewhat insulting. While it is sad that people will have to loose their homes in the name of progress, delray is far from an ideal location and a place that in this day and age very few people choose to live and invest anything. There are mecanisiams on the books in this state that will allow for the relocation, with in the city. There are examples of people in flint being bought out of their homes to consilidate the city and deal with the contraction of the city. It is my understanding that they were happy with the sum of money that they were given because it was far greater than what they could have got in the market, which is nothing. Additionaly according to the 2000 census there are only 2100 people in 762 housholds living in Delray. So there are not that many people to move out.
After reading your argument i am not sure what you are arguing for other then the preservation of a neighborhood that has been dead for years. It's hard to tell if you are a stooge for moroun or just repeating the same banana arguments that stand in the way of progress everywhere.

[12468_laing]

I used to go to Delray quite often in the 60-70's - my Dad was Hungarian and we used to get about all our meats from the market there. Great stuff and memories. I moved to TN in '82, and since have gone back a couple of times, but as they say, it never stays the same. After most of the business moved out, and people moved out, it really had no way to sustain itself. I do hate to see an area such as that one with so much history and lore going the way of the wrecking ball, but what can be done to save any of it? To me, in order to resurrect any of it, it would take new money to rebuilt and revitalize. It is sad how an area like that goes, as have other areas in Detroit. Just my thoughts........................

[bobby wobby]

Anyone who sticks up for Many Marone must be on his payroll. There is very little that will be torn down when they build the bridge in SW Detroit .

[MIRepublic]

Kraig, your sudden and convenient advocacy of Delray [[or what little is left of it, residential-wise) is disingenous, at best, which makes it thoroughly insulting. It's disingenous, because I don't ever believe I've heard to advocate for the two much more thoroughly and densely populated hoods of Corktown and Mexicantown, which have literally been cleaved in half to justify Matty's continued insatiable ambition to turn the entire area into his personal Bridgetown. If Matty would have had his way, and if Corktown and Mexicantown had been far weaker and less organized hoods, he'd have gotten rid of them, altogether, or left them to the fate he's left MCS and the Roosevelt Warehouse.

The downriver bridge being proposed is far more sensitive to those few residents left in what is otherwise an industrial wasteland, even by Detroit standards. You sudden advocacy for what's-left-of-Delray is a total joke.

[kraig]

Kraig, your sudden and convenient advocacy of Delray [[or what little is left of it, residential-wise) is disingenous, at best, which makes it thoroughly insulting. It's disingenous, because I don't ever believe I've heard to advocate for the two much more thoroughly and densely populated hoods of Corktown and Mexicantown, which have literally been cleaved in half to justify Matty's continued insatiable ambition to turn the entire area into his personal Bridgetown. If Matty would have had his way, and if Corktown and Mexicantown had been far weaker and less organized hoods, he'd have gotten rid of them, altogether, or left them to the fate he's left MCS and the Roosevelt Warehouse.

The downriver bridge being proposed is far more sensitive to those few residents left in what is otherwise an industrial wasteland, even by Detroit standards. You sudden advocacy for what's-left-of-Delray is a total joke.

I hope that both the people in Delray and the Southwest are paying very close attention to what is going on. All it took was the mention of the name Matty Maroun and a whole bunch of people adopted the attitude that Delray is just collateral damage and needs to go. Once people are gone, they're gone. This, in order to save Delray we must destroy Delray attitude isn't going to work. Tearing up the first part of an area is always the hardest part, after that, other areas can fall like dominoes. After Graimark, which was pretty much viewed the same way then that Delray is viewed now, was destroyed, the Detroit Riverfront area was wiped out virtually overnight. Delray is just the beginning. Other parts of the Southwest side will fall afterward.

As far as Matty Maroun, I've said nothing that supports him building a second span. What I've done is point out how the disdain for him is used to steer us in a certain direction. But, what I find most ironic is that no one is commenting on the fact that the money discussions are not taking place on the Southwest Side. 3.5 billion is going to be spent on our side of town and our businesses are not going to be a part of it. Business as usual.

As far as me advocating for the Mexicantown and Corktown areas, I do. I just don't do it in a way that praises politicians for accomplishing nothing. I've noticed that none of the people that are objecting to my posts have actually been able to state what has Toboccman and Tlaib actually accomplished besides organizing meetings against Matty Maroun. I don't have any feelings about him one way or the other. I simply think that if a goal is to improve the environmental quality in the area then steps should be taken towards that end. It's no coincidence that the areas where children have the most cases of asthma are also the areas with the most abandoned homes being torn down at the slowest rate and politicians focusing on the least as far as providing municipal services. I feel that we pay more attention to Matty Maroun than we do the politicians that represent us. The City of Detroit has a contract with the Greening of Detroit to plant trees. They have been planting trees all over the Northwest side and Southeast side. They've planted very little, if any, on the Southwest and Northeast sides. What councilmembers or state reps are saying anything about this?

That's where I'm coming from and I make no apologies for seeing a situation for what it is.

[Gistok]

Anyone who sticks up for Many Marone must be on his payroll. There is very little that will be torn down when they build the bridge in SW Detroit .

One can hardly call 2100 residents and 762 households "nothing".

Something tells me that most of those folks will take the money they get, and move out of Detroit... since it is a buyers market.