The Fate of the Detroit People Mover

**BrushStart** · August-03-10, 03:23 AM

One issue that has been largely neglected in the discussions concerning the M1 rail line is the fate of the DPM. Looking at the M1 design that includes a downtown loop, the transit coverage of both systems will overlap significantly in places.

The popular opinion of the DPM is that it is a boondogle and has been since it was built. It has not lived up to ridership expectations and does not travel a significant area.

That said, the DPM is actually a highly effective circulator, and it provides a great service to downtown workers, residents, and visitors. IMO, the DPM gets a bad reputation because it failed to live up to the expectation that it would be a major mass transit system for the city. In fact, I would credit DPM's shortcomings with not only the long delay between new transit plans, but also a prime source of sour feelings and opposition to the M1 line, which promises to be superior at its task.

So what do you think should become of the elevated tram? I say we keep it if the M1 does not have a downtown loop, otherwise, it should be dismantled. Too much transit is not only inefficient, but also discourages foot traffic in perhaps the most walkable part of the city: downtown.

**Meddle** · August-03-10, 03:34 AM

I was always opposed to the ColemanTram, but if they can tie it in somehow, fine. Problem is, all the places worth stopping at are gone [[Trapper's Alley, Hudson's, etc.)

**smogboy** · August-03-10, 03:59 AM

I say keep the People Mover, but it just might be out of sentimentality and not practicality.

I have no idea what it costs to keep this thing running but just from the casual observer's point of view here, I know it's a godsend during things like Red Wing games and the Auto Show. It really seems to help alleviate some of the parking decks and let's some further lots reap the rewards. I also like the fact that it practically drops you off right at the front steps of the Joe and Cobo.

Now if the Wings move from the JLA in a few years, this topic might need to be revisited again.

I do agree that foot traffic is much much more desirable and feasible downtown, but have we Detroiters gotten just too used to driving everywhere and really not into a pedestrian mind set? And that non-pedestrian mindset isn't borne out of laziness- it's just become necessity because of where all of the services like grocery stores, hospitals and other amenities are. I also think our lack of decent mass transit has contributed to that mind set.

**Huggybear** · August-03-10, 07:18 AM

Did it ever stop at Hudson's? I don't recall its even being completed when Hudson's closed. But it does stop at Compuware now. And for some people, the Greektown Casino is at least as much a destination as Trapper's Alley.

Originally Posted by Meddle

I was always opposed to the ColemanTram, but if they can tie it in somehow, fine. Problem is, all the places worth stopping at are gone [[Trapper's Alley, Hudson's, etc.)

**French777** · August-03-10, 07:21 AM

I heard the PM brings in 1 million dollars a year, yet cost about 7 million to operate.

**tkelly1986** · August-03-10, 07:44 AM

Although it's probably not feasible, a good use for the people mover would be to retrofit it in the future with the same technology/system the M1 will be [[type of trains and rail). Thus you could feasibly build a ramp from one of the feeder lines [[preferably one down michigan or to the airport) and have a Chicago loop type senario.

EastSider · August-03-10, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Did it ever stop at Hudson's? I don't recall its even being completed when Hudson's closed. But it does stop at Compuware now. And for some people, the Greektown Casino is at least as much a destination as Trapper's Alley.

The DPM opened for service in 1987. Hudson's closed its downtown doors in January of '83.

**leady106** · August-03-10, 08:00 AM

The people ,mover should be expanded with a figure eight configuration to include access to the stadiums, the other casinos and the future hockey arena. Parts of the conection could be a 2nd story walkway/bridge system. I would be better used if could extend to outer areas like the Masonic Temple, Eastern Market, The DMC and Wayne Sttate cultural center. The light rail on Woodward should terminate on Jefferson in front of the RenCen. for maxium use. If it loops around downtown and has too many stops it looses if effecteness.
I have heard that a mile of a Woodward subway system was started before the 29 depression. could this be used between Grand Circus and RenCen? There are already access to some major office buildings from that time

**mallory** · August-03-10, 08:09 AM

I'm all for keeping the DPM for nostalgia sake more than anything else. Plus, when I worked downtown, I used it qute often, depending on where I parked. I would offer this though: can someone grab a can of 3-in-1 and lube up the wheels a little? WOW is it loud inside, especially along the river.

**ndavies** · August-03-10, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by leady106

The people ,mover should be expanded with a figure eight configuration to include access to the stadiums, the other casinos and the future hockey arena. Parts of the conection could be a 2nd story walkway/bridge system. I would be better used if could extend to outer areas like the Masonic Temple, Eastern Market, The DMC and Wayne Sttate cultural center. The light rail on Woodward should terminate on Jefferson in front of the RenCen. for maxium use. If it loops around downtown and has too many stops it looses if effecteness.
I have heard that a mile of a Woodward subway system was started before the 29 depression. could this be used between Grand Circus and RenCen? There are already access to some major office buildings from that time

The people mover will never be expanded. The people mover uses linear induction motors that make it non compatible with other train types. Bombardier, the company that built the PM components, Has obsoleted the people mover sized cars. They make longer cars using the same technology. The longer cars cannot work on the People movers tight corners.

The people mover technology is far more expensive than competing technologies. Why add that much cost to a system that is already struggling to get money.

I don't believe there was any tunnelling done for a subway. The subway plan failed long before construction started.

**iheartthed** · August-03-10, 09:11 AM

The light rail plans currently being touted don't really obsolete the DPM since they travel two different routes.

**Meddle** · August-03-10, 09:29 AM

I don't remember exactly where all the stops were, but I know there was one back there somewhere. The store was closed, but there was still hope for the building for a while.

**buildingsofdetroit** · August-03-10, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I was always opposed to the ColemanTram, but if they can tie it in somehow, fine. Problem is, all the places worth stopping at are gone [[Trapper's Alley, Hudson's, etc.)

Hudson's was gone for several years before the People Mover opened.

**Detroitej72** · August-03-10, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I don't remember exactly where all the stops were, but I know there was one back there somewhere. The store was closed, but there was still hope for the building for a while.

That stop was for the downtown branch of the Detroit Public Library.

**smogboy** · August-03-10, 10:22 AM

Is it my imagination but has there never been a fare increase on the People Mover since it went into service in 1987? Has it always just been 50¢ a pop on this thing forever?

**R8RBOB** · August-03-10, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by smogboy

Is it my imagination but has there never been a fare increase on the People Mover since it went into service in 1987? Has it always just been 50¢ a pop on this thing forever?

For 23 years, it has been 50¢

**Hermod** · August-03-10, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

I don't believe there was any tunnelling done for a subway. The subway plan failed long before construction started.

Were the underground rest rooms under Grand Circus Park a remnant of the abortive subway effort? I don't know, just asking.

**texorama** · August-03-10, 10:38 AM

The People Mover trains must be approaching the end of their useful lives anyhow. I remember during a breakdown five or ten years ago there were already stories saying they were wearing out. That said, tying the new trains into a revamped People Mover or some other downtown circulator is a promising idea.

**Searay215** · August-03-10, 10:49 AM

I say abandon it and that way it adds to the rest of the abandon buildings in downtown, perfect for the next Transformer movie. Just sayin......

**Sandhouse** · August-03-10, 10:52 AM

I remember seeing plans for the system that show that the kink in the People Mover route on Farmer Street was put in with the intention of serving Hudson's; the route was never adjusted after the store closed, probably in hopes for re-use of the building or its replacement with more retail.

I have never heard of any serious proposal for a subway in Detroit, and there was never any construction. [[Not like Cincinnati, where unused subway tunnels still exist.)

**Whitehouse** · August-03-10, 10:56 AM

Well, I think this railsystem is ripe enough to be exported to Henry Ford's Greenfield Village. I mean, he exported other downtown buildings to that tourist attraction and I think the system will actually do better over there than downtown.

Seeing old pictures of the Stattler hotel with the peoplemover track in front of it, I think the peoplemover was a disgrace to that building, even in it's abandoned state. It certainly contributed to the Stattler's demise, although it was by far not the only reason the tore the building down. Getting rid of the tracks might be a good thing for the United Artists Theater, and even the Michigan.

Detroit had a fully working streetcar system that was the victim of the automobile. A streetlevel streetcar is more accessable to the pubic than that elevated one...

**ndavies** · August-03-10, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Were the underground rest rooms under Grand Circus Park a remnant of the abortive subway effort? I don't know, just asking.

I don't believe there are any restrooms under Grand Circus park. [[although I only lived 2 blocks away for over 10 years, I may be wrong.)There is a purpose built parking garage under Grand circus park.

The 1922 subway plan was vetoed by the mayor long before any of it was built.

The Cadillac Square station would have been the station to use for Hudson. [[If they had been open at the same time.) It was less than a block away. The Farmers St. section was the strip of track that had to be rebuilt after the Hudson building landed on it during the implosion. The train ran in both directions for some time.

**Hermod** · August-03-10, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by ndavies

I don't believe there are any restrooms under Grand Circus park. [[although I only lived 2 blocks away for over 10 years, I may be wrong.)There is a purpose built parking garage under Grand circus park.

At one time there were underground restrooms downtown. I remember using them with my father. They had entrances just like NYC subway entrances with the womens on one side and the mens on the other side. As I remember [[I was a kid) they were huge and fascinated me. If I was downtown with my mother, she wouldn't let me use them because of "all the homosexuals" down there.

**CLAUDE G** · August-03-10, 11:01 PM

The only time I ride the people mover is when going to Joe Louis arena due to the lack of parking.

I think if the people mover is to survive, it needs to be expanded to service Comerica Park, Ford Field and where ever Illitch decides to build the new Hockey arena.

If Joe Louis arena is eventually closed, and the people mover is not expanded they might as well just close down the people mover.

**R8RBOB** · August-03-10, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

The only time I ride the people mover is when going to Joe Louis arena due to the lack of parking.

I think if the people mover is to survive, it needs to be expanded to service Comerica Park, Ford Field and where ever Illitch decides to build the new Hockey arena.

If Joe Louis arena is eventually closed, and the people mover is not expanded they might as well just close down the people mover.

The newly proposed M1 Rail will cover CP and FF. Now if the new arena is built on site of the demolished Motown Bldg, then the rail cover that too.

As for the People Mover, it can still serve a purpose if the planners make use of the People Mover to accept people coming off the M1 rail. Of course this won't be effective until they get the rail to 8Mile.