Volt pricing finally released by GM

**GrandCircus289** · July-27-10, 02:57 PM

It looks like pricing will be between $41,000 and $44,600 [[excluding $7,500 federal tax credit). A $350 per moth lease will also be available.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010072...start-at-41000

**detmsp** · July-27-10, 02:58 PM

Anyone who buys this car needs to get their head checked. The lease offer is FAR more attractive.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-27-10, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by detmsp

Anyone who buys this car needs to get their head checked. The lease offer is FAR more attractive.

A five seater that can get 350 MPG? I'd have to see the terms of the lease contract. My gasoline costs would drop from about $100 a month to about $10! With 2 charges a week I could get that down to about $5. Over the 7-9 years I keep a car, I bet I would come out ahead on a buy. Granted, my electric costs would go up, but I have an interuptible service line.

Edit.... Whoops 230 mpg.... still impressive though it will mean more charges.

**GrandCircus289** · July-27-10, 03:27 PM

The Feds are using a new testing procedure which killed the 230 mpg rating.

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/14...30-mpg-rating/

**Whitehouse** · July-27-10, 03:40 PM

Last time I checked the dieselprice over here was €1,15/liter, which converts to more than 5 dollars per gallon! That car will cost more than a ton in Euros to us Europeans. I don't know how many miles you need to go to break even...

**East Detroit** · July-27-10, 03:45 PM

So, if you drive 15000 miles a year you could save $1500 a year over a car getting 30 mpg. if you ran only on battery?

[[15000/30) * $3

And if you kept it and the battery stayed good for 10 years, you would save $15K...

**douglasm** · July-27-10, 03:57 PM

The only problem with an electric car so far is the range. My wife and I [[as part of our job) put in 250 mile days with regularity. If they come out with an electric car that will recharge in the length of time it takes me to fill up the tank on my 35 mpg KIA, I'll consider one. But a 100 mile range just doesn't cut it.

**detmsp** · July-27-10, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

The only problem with an electric car so far is the range. My wife and I [[as part of our job) put in 250 mile days with regularity. If they come out with an electric car that will recharge in the length of time it takes me to fill up the tank on my 35 mpg KIA, I'll consider one. But a 100 mile range just doesn't cut it.

You do realize that the Volt has a range of around 350 miles, right? Sure, only 40 miles are electric, but the for the remaining miles you'll still get over 35 MPG

**douglasm** · July-27-10, 04:39 PM

So the Volt's basically just another hybrid? Goodie. I guess that makes the Nissan Leaf the only practical electric car on the horison, right?

My problem with pure electric cars still stands, though.

**Onthe405** · July-27-10, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

The only problem with an electric car so far is the range. . . if they come out with an electric car that will recharge in the length of time it takes me to fill up the tank on my 35 mpg KIA, I'll consider one.

Rather than being concerned with recharging time, my suggestion has always been to design electric vehicles in which the battery can be replaced quickly & easily [[it could even be drive through & automated--- like a car wash). When the car starts to run low, you stop at the nearest service station and swap out the battery. The network of service stations is already in place. At first they would serve both combustion cars & electric. As consumers migrated to primarily electric, the gas pumps become increasingly scarce.

**detmsp** · July-27-10, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

So the Volt's basically just another hybrid? Goodie. I guess that makes the Nissan Leaf the only practical electric car on the horison, right?

My problem with pure electric cars still stands, though.

Well I don't think it's fair to call it just another hybrid. The Volt is a series hybrid and all the other hybrids on the market are parallel hybrids. The biggest difference between the two is that the Volt can travel up to 40 miles at any speed without using the gasoline engine. A typical [[parallel) hybrid can generally only go a mile or two under light acceleration at sub-hwy speeds before the gasoline engine kicks in.

**detmsp** · July-27-10, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Onthe405

Rather than being concerned with recharging time, my suggestion has always been to design electric vehicles in which the battery can be replaced quickly & easily [[it could even be drive through & automated--- like a car wash). When the car starts to run low, you stop at the nearest service station and swap out the battery. The network of service stations is already in place. At first they would serve both combustion cars & electric. As consumers migrated to primarily electric, the gas pumps become increasingly scarce.

The problem with that is that these batteries are huge and heavy. The Volt's battery pack weighs 400 pounds! Generally to get the batteries to fit in the car, they have to wedge them into weird spots [[ie, between the seats in the Volt) so they aren't very easily accessible either.

**BagAJellyDonuts** · July-27-10, 06:08 PM

The Volt simply isn't for everybody. But for somebody that has a ten to fifteen mile commute and an open spot in a garage, it's an alternative. The lease deal is well within range of anybody that leases a Malibu, Camry or Fusion and just wants to go back and forth to work.

As far as it's just another hybrid, that's wrong, this is the foundation for the architecture of many cars in the future. Somebody had to do this, it is the natural progression with technology on hand. It will only get better.

BTW, the quiet of this car is just amazing. If you get to go for a ride you will find that out.

lilpup · July-27-10, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

So the Volt's basically just another hybrid? Goodie. I guess that makes the Nissan Leaf the only practical electric car on the horison, right?

My problem with pure electric cars still stands, though.

No, the Volt is NOT just another hybrid and it doesn't have the standard gasoline engine others do. What it has is an onboard generator that recharges the battery. Because the generator doesn't directly power the car like the engine does in a typical hybrid the mileage while running the generator should be a lot greater than 35 mpg.

**CLAUDE G** · July-28-10, 12:44 AM

I would actually lease one right now, the whole issue I have is only being able to travel 40 miles on a single charge.

If the engineers could figure out how to be able to affordably get it to 100-125 miles on a single charge, there is alot of people out there who would lease one right now.

I got an employee right now who drives 100 miles to work every day. You get 100 miles out of it on a charge we could install a charging station at his home and at the office, and then your not using any gas at all.

This guy is spending like$450/mo in gas right now, driving 1000 miles per week to and from the office.

Alot of other people travel this type of commute also, and this is where a $350 lease would make sense!

**Goose** · July-28-10, 01:34 AM

what i always see missing is factoring in the electricity cost at home.... and do you just run an extension cord to an outlet on the car or do you need a special hookup installed that costs $$$...

i see a HUGE increase in my electric consumption in the summer when i turn on the AC, i can't imagine how big the bill would be if I had to plug this thing in every night to charge....

**redvetred** · July-28-10, 03:00 AM

Goose, here's the numbers for you:
Home charging station:
1, You can charge using any available 120V, 15A outlet but 240V, 30A one is more practical.
2. A 240V outlet can cost $1000-3000 installed depending on service capacity, how far the wire must be run, etc.
Operating costs:
GM advertises 4 miles per kWh but let's say you have a lead-foot and like to operate at full speed so assume 2 miles per kWh. At $0.10 per kWh, operating costs will be $0.05 per mile. A 20 mile trip will cost you $1.00. Night-time charging could cost even less. The battery is warranteed for eight years so you don't have to ammortize the battery cost since most people don't keep a car that long. These vehicles are not for everyone but can provide an alternative for daily commuters. Not everyone wants a 4X4 either.

**wolverine** · July-28-10, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by douglasm

The only problem with an electric car so far is the range. My wife and I [[as part of our job) put in 250 mile days with regularity. If they come out with an electric car that will recharge in the length of time it takes me to fill up the tank on my 35 mpg KIA, I'll consider one. But a 100 mile range just doesn't cut it.

Shouldn't be a problem too soon. I'm seeing so many commercial parking garages already with spaces outfitted with electric sockets, same with new residential parking garages. Costs of charging are included in your parking space lease contract.

**unclefrank** · July-28-10, 09:23 AM

Yeah, I really trust GM to do anything right!

**ndavies** · July-28-10, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

This guy is spending like$450/mo in gas right now, driving 1000 miles per week to and from the office.

Alot of other people travel this type of commute also, and this is where a $350 lease would make sense!

This lease would make no sense at all for someone who drives that many miles. All car leases have mileage limits. I'm sure he would be way over the mileage limits. These's no way a new vehicle lease would include 50,000+ miles a year.

He would need to purchase the car. The over mileage fees would destroy any savings provided by a lease.

**jiminnm** · July-28-10, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by detmsp

You do realize that the Volt has a range of around 350 miles, right? Sure, only 40 miles are electric, but the for the remaining miles you'll still get over 35 MPG

The 350 miles range has been the claim for a long time. But, early announcements also had it with a 12 gal gas tank and recent articles have mentioned a 8-9 gal tank. I think I'll wait and see what the real numbers are.

**Onthe405** · July-28-10, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by detmsp

The problem with that is that these batteries are huge and heavy. The Volt's battery pack weighs 400 pounds! Generally to get the batteries to fit in the car, they have to wedge them into weird spots [[ie, between the seats in the Volt) so they aren't very easily accessible either.

The point of my original post was that perhaps, as technology evolves, engineers could/should be more practical by incorporating battery change-out capability into the vehicle design by standardizing the location and ease of replacement of the battery pack. The weight, 400 pounds +, is not an issue in the era of heavy duty electronic machinery & robotics. The average car weighs a few tons, but it can be mechanically lifted. The technology used on the assembly line could be applied to the local service station.

The initial investment would be expensive, but with millions upon millions of vehicles on the road, the economies of scale hold the potential to make it profitable. The current system of gasoline pumps & storage, soil toxicity mitigation, and fuel refining & distribution aren't exactly cheap either.

**d.mcc** · July-28-10, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

This guy is spending like$450/mo in gas right now, driving 1000 miles per week to and from the office.

Here's a quick fix... Don't live 100 miles from work

**bailey** · July-28-10, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by d.mcc

Here's a quick fix... Don't live 100 miles from work

yeah. seriously. especially in a region pathologically against mass transit in any form.

I wonder if the Volt were a Toyota product it would be subject to as much derision and cynicism? I can't wait to see the statements when this thing has any sort of performance that is not exactly or superior to advertised. the breathless reports of how it only gets 38 miles per charge which means GM lies are, i'm sure, already written.

**ndavies** · July-28-10, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Onthe405

The point of my original post was that perhaps, as technology evolves, engineers could/should be more practical by incorporating battery change-out capability into the vehicle design by standardizing the location and ease of replacement of the battery pack. The weight, 400 pounds +, is not an issue in the era of heavy duty electronic machinery & robotics. The average car weighs a few tons, but it can be mechanically lifted. The technology used on the assembly line could be applied to the local service station.

The initial investment would be expensive, but with millions upon millions of vehicles on the road, the economies of scale hold the potential to make it profitable. The current system of gasoline pumps & storage, soil toxicity mitigation, and fuel refining & distribution aren't exactly cheap either.

The concept of swapping batteries is dead on arrival.

First, You are never ever going to get the automanufacturers to commonize on a low enough number of battery pack configurations. They have enough trouble commonizing components they internally control. Look at the huge number of 12 volt battery configurations in cars as it is. If they couldn't commonize this seaminly simple process, what hope does a larger higher tech battery pack have.

Without commonization of the battery pack, nobody is going to sign up for battery pack swap outs due to the fear of their specific battery pack becoming obsolete.

The weight may not be an issue. But packaging a box with enough volume to hold 400 lbs into a vehicle is a nightmare. Where are you going to put a box that is as large as a gas tank and make it accessable to the outside. Placing it too close to the front or rear will make the car's vehicle dynamics a nightmare. Placing it under the Cab interferes with occupant comfort and safety.

Also how do you verify the integrity of the battery pack you just swapped into your vehicle? How do you deal with the aging of battey packs? How do you know the battery station you just stopped at gave you a good battery pack? What happens when you get a pack that only went 250 instead of 300 miles? How could you guarranty the service center isn't skimming off the new battery packs for its own or it's prefferred customers use?

I know many people who won't use the propane tank exchanges because they their afraid of getting a crappy tank for the good tank they just turned in..