Detnews: BCBS Moving 3,000 Downtown from Southfield

[Huggybear]

This is at least as big a deal as Quicken.

http://detnews.com/article/20100727/...-Blues-workers

[Genesyxx]

One can only hope the trend continues and brings retail back to the Ren Cen.

[DetroitPlanner]

Unfortunately, retail has never done well at the RenCen. The biggest impact I can see this having is on the City's General Fund. If workers all lived in the burbs and made $25,000 a year [[conservative estimates for both). It would raise just under $1 million in City income taxes. Not great, but the City needs every increase it can get.

[MotownSpartan]

This will have less impact on downtown retail than if these workers had moved to almost any other location in the CBD. The RenCen is very self-contained and workers leave the complex at a much lower rate than workers leave other downtown office buildings to do things like go to lunch, run errands, etc.

[Rocko]

True statement Spartan. Hopefully, however, these new employees will utilize the direct station for the People Mover and patronize some of the other downtown restaurants for lunch or dinner. At least the RenCen CVS should see a modest boost in traffic. Anywhere in Detroit is better than Southfield!!

[R8RBOB]

Next on the hit parade: moving HAP employees from JL Hudson Dr. to parts unknown in Detroit.

[tkelly1986]

Sorry for the ignorance, but what is HAP? I know this is a joke, but I'm just curious.

[mwilbert]

The regrettable design of RenCen notwithstanding [[and it's a lot less isolated from the rest of downtown than it used to be) more people downtown is more people downtown. Just having them around improves the vibe; people attract people.

Another thing to think about is that where there is a potential customer base, people will try to find ways to appeal to them; fewer customers, less effort. I do not believe it is impossible to lure people out of RenCen, but you have to give them a reason.

[gazhekwe]

HAP is Health Alliance Plan. They already have a major presence near Henry Ford Hospital.

[Focus313]

This will have less impact on downtown retail than if these workers had moved to almost any other location in the CBD. The RenCen is very self-contained and workers leave the complex at a much lower rate than workers leave other downtown office buildings to do things like go to lunch, run errands, etc.

I would say this might be true for any other company besides BCBS. Remember they have another campus that isn't going anywhere soon [[in fact the just put millions into development there) and people will likely walk from the RenCen to the BCBS HQ quite a bit in good weather.

[jt1]

I'm looking forward to the feigned outrage from OC leaders about Detroit 'poaching' their businesses and how that is not a good show of regional cooperation.

[bailey]

I would say this might be true for any other company besides BCBS. Remember they have another campus that isn't going anywhere soon [[in fact the just put millions into development there) and people will likely walk from the RenCen to the BCBS HQ quite a bit in good weather.

Ok, but the campus these folks may or may not walk to is bounded by the Greektown casino to the West. I-375 to the north and parking lots to the east. The stuff on Beaubian street from the RenCen to the BCBS campus is either a bar, a parking deck or a surface parking lot. Where do you want them to shop along the way?

I'm looking forward to the feigned outrage from OC leaders about Detroit 'poaching' their businesses and how that is not a good show of regional cooperation.

The problem is it's not "feigned". The really believe it and spout off with no concept of irony.

however, might be hard for them to do this time... i don't think there were any incentives used. Just a ton of empty space a stone's throw from the HQ.

[bartock]

[quote=Rocko;167184]True statement Spartan. Hopefully, however, these new employees will utilize the direct station for the People Mover and patronize some of the other downtown restaurants for lunch or dinner. At least the RenCen CVS should see a modest boost in traffic. Anywhere in Detroit is better than Southfield!![/quote]

I'd rather see 3,000 new jobs created in the area than the emptying out of one building to pour into another, regardless of where the jobs are or where they are going.

[Detroitnerd]

WHAT? What are these companies doing? Don't they know that the place to locate a business is in Troy? Or in Novi? Or in Farmington Hills? Don't they know that those places are working cities with police forces and families and acres and acres of beautiful parking? Why do they want to move into an abandoned hellhole like Detroit where homeless people fight in the street? Why? Why? Arrrrggghhh ... [HEAD EXPLODES]

[Wintersmommy]

yeah! new neighbors...hope there are lots of cute single young men amoung them tee hee

[iheartthed]

I'd rather see 3,000 new jobs created in the area than the emptying out of one building to pour into another, regardless of where the jobs are or where they are going.

This is irrelevant. It's not a choice between creating 3,000 new jobs in the area versus emptying one building of workers to move to another. I'm sure everybody reading this thread would prefer 3,000 new jobs over all else.

[bartock]

This is irrelevant. It's not a choice between creating 3,000 new jobs in the area versus emptying one building of workers to move to another. I'm sure everybody reading this thread would prefer 3,000 new jobs over all else.

How can you say my response to someone else's comment is not relevant? Not relevant to what? Probably not relevant to the fact that a business is consolidating and moving workers, but I was responding to something else.

"Anywhere but Southfield" is a pretty interesting statement, followed by more smirk regarding Troy and other suburban areas. If Caraco was going to move hundreds of jobs out to Madison Heights and somebody was saying "good, at least it's not in Detroit," would you find a similar comment relevant then? Shoot, I'm not suburban defender, nor a city defender, but there is some serious chest thumping and "how big is yours?" going on.

...and I don't think your last statement is correct as to everybody here.

[casscorridor]

Although the RenCen is sort of a fortress and there are places within the building to eat, I still think it will have more of an impact on outside pedestrian traffic than a building at 11 Mile and Inkster in Southfield, where there is literally no places to walk within walking distance...

Also this move combined with Quicken brings us over 6,000 additional workers to Downtown every week day. I heard we need at least 10,000 more, if not 30,000 to make a substaintial impact on foot traffic and retail development. Although I think it has more to do with residential population. To be in the range of other cities, we need at least 30,000 people living Downtown [[up from the 10k range). Then we will see the vibrancy you see in other major cities. Midtown needs at least 15-20K if not 30k. Currently I think its only about around 7-8k. Sorry for the rough estimates, I don't have time to look into exact numbers.

Regardless, 6,000 extra workers Downtown is a good thing, and maybe a chunk of them will decide to move to/near Downtown to be close to work and all the fabulous cultural and recreational opportunities our central city has to offer-- the museums, galleries, theatres, stadiums, casinos, riverfront, belle isle, campus martius, the libraries, and colleges, the restaurants, the unique shops, the history, the beautiful architecture. There is a lot to see and do here, and a lot of reasons why someone would want to experience and wake up to this city every day, even with all the reasons not to.

[Danny]

YAY! 3,000 Detroit jobs! YAY KING BING! Quicken Loans step up and bring your workers to Downtown Detroit.

[bartock]

Although the RenCen is sort of a fortress and there are places within the building to eat, I still think it will have more of an impact on outside pedestrian traffic than a building at 11 Mile and Inkster in Southfield, where there is literally no places to walk within walking distance...

Also this move combined with Quicken brings us over 6,000 additional workers to Downtown every week day. I heard we need at least 10,000 more, if not 30,000 to make a substaintial impact on foot traffic and retail development. Although I think it has more to do with residential population. To be in the range of other cities, we need at least 30,000 people living Downtown [[up from the 10k range). Then we will see the vibrancy you see in other major cities. Midtown needs at least 15-20K if not 30k. Currently I think its only about around 7-8k. Sorry for the rough estimates, I don't have time to look into exact numbers.

Regardless, 6,000 extra workers Downtown is a good thing, and maybe a chunk of them will decide to move to/near Downtown to be close to work and all the fabulous cultural and recreational opportunities our central city has to offer-- the museums, galleries, theatres, stadiums, casinos, riverfront, belle isle, campus martius, the libraries, and colleges, the restaurants, the unique shops, the history, the beautiful architecture. There is a lot to see and do here, and a lot of reasons why someone would want to experience and wake up to this city every day, even with all the reasons not to.

I think the 30,000 thing was recently in Crain's. And to be clear, I think a vibrant core city is a key to a lot of things in the region, so ultimately the consolidation and close to 6,000 new workers downtown is good news, just not thumb-nosing news.

[MotownSpartan]

Although the RenCen is sort of a fortress and there are places within the building to eat, I still think it will have more of an impact on outside pedestrian traffic than a building at 11 Mile and Inkster in Southfield, where there is literally no places to walk within walking distance...

Also this move combined with Quicken brings us over 6,000 additional workers to Downtown every week day. I heard we need at least 10,000 more, if not 30,000 to make a substaintial impact on foot traffic and retail development. Although I think it has more to do with residential population. To be in the range of other cities, we need at least 30,000 people living Downtown [[up from the 10k range). Then we will see the vibrancy you see in other major cities. Midtown needs at least 15-20K if not 30k. Currently I think its only about around 7-8k. Sorry for the rough estimates, I don't have time to look into exact numbers.

Regardless, 6,000 extra workers Downtown is a good thing, and maybe a chunk of them will decide to move to/near Downtown to be close to work and all the fabulous cultural and recreational opportunities our central city has to offer-- the museums, galleries, theatres, stadiums, casinos, riverfront, belle isle, campus martius, the libraries, and colleges, the restaurants, the unique shops, the history, the beautiful architecture. There is a lot to see and do here, and a lot of reasons why someone would want to experience and wake up to this city every day, even with all the reasons not to.

Remember that these 6,000 workers are really more like replacements for workers who used to be downtown but left due to layoffs, etc. At one point, the entire RenCen was full and the Compuware building was largely occupied. If these 6k were being added on top of a full RenCen and Compuware building, then I think it's more likely that we'd notice the effect.

I'd say the analogy is like someone treading water, Detroit's downtown was starting to slip below the surface and these jobs have hopefully got us back to the point where we're not sinking anymore ... this is great news but we need a lot more jobs before I think we hit the tipping point.

[BrushStart]

I always think of the Ren Cen as being the first choice most companies consider. Filling up the Ren Cen means that the next wave of businesses coming downtown will have to move into more city/street friendly office towers.

[iheartthed]

How can you say my response to someone else's comment is not relevant? Not relevant to what? Probably not relevant to the fact that a business is consolidating and moving workers, but I was responding to something else.

"Anywhere but Southfield" is a pretty interesting statement, followed by more smirk regarding Troy and other suburban areas. If Caraco was going to move hundreds of jobs out to Madison Heights and somebody was saying "good, at least it's not in Detroit," would you find a similar comment relevant then? Shoot, I'm not suburban defender, nor a city defender, but there is some serious chest thumping and "how big is yours?" going on.

...and I don't think your last statement is correct as to everybody here.

Your response was not relevant to what the person said. If you're gonna say it then say it, take a shit or get off the toilet! Specify that you don't like the idea of shifting jobs from the suburbs to Detroit. That is the only reason that you bothered to respond.

This was not a choice between bringing new jobs into the state versus taking jobs from Southfield to Detroit. So it's irrelevant to even bring up that false option. This is a choice between leaving 3,000 jobs in Southfield or moving them to Detroit.

[Focus313]

Ok, but the campus these folks may or may not walk to is bounded by the Greektown casino to the West. I-375 to the north and parking lots to the east. The stuff on Beaubian street from the RenCen to the BCBS campus is either a bar, a parking deck or a surface parking lot. Where do you want them to shop along the way?

So What? Is Greektown and the east-side of Downtown not part of the central business district? You act like its the burbs or some sh!t. Just because it's a parking lot now doesn't mean that its not a possible redevelopment site 2,3,5 or 10 years down the road. You gotta get the ball rolling sometime right? People need to stop being so damn cynical. It really is the worst trait of Metro Detroiters.

Yes these workers are filling the void that was left in 2005-2008 but that doesn't mean it's not a good thing. Whats the alternative? Not having the RenCen solvent and have it go abandoned? Now that would really be good for downtown.

[bartock]

Your response was not relevant to what the person said. If you're gonna say it then say it, take a shit or get off the toilet! Specify that you don't like the idea of shifting jobs from the suburbs to Detroit. That is the only reason that you bothered to respond.

This was not a choice between bringing new jobs into the state versus taking jobs from Southfield to Detroit. So it's irrelevant to even bring up that false option. This is a choice between leaving 3,000 jobs in Southfield or moving them to Detroit.

My response was relevant to the barely-veiled glee that ensued because workers were moved from one area of this area to another area of this area. This is the same bullshit that is seen with opinions regarding crime. That was my shit and I took it.

"you don't like the idea of jobs shifting from the suburbs to Detroit. That is the only reason that you bothered to respond." Sorry, this couldn't be more wrong, for any number of reasons. Again, the barely-veiled nah nah nah nah nah that comes from news like this I find ironic...and, if you are implying race, well, I won't get started with the irony of that.

I responded because the topic is interesting, I obviously have an opinion regarding recent thumb-nosing, I am bored at work, like to multi-"task," spend way too much time on these boards, could be more productive if I give them a rest, should probably get a new hobby, and firmly believe in the stated purpose of the board regarding discussion of the "fabulous Detroit-Windsor Metropolis."

So...if you still think my comment implied a "false option" of a choice between creating jobs and moving to Detroit, and that's what you are going to stick with, then to each his/her own. Whatever feeds the agenda.