Trespassing at site of old Tiger Stadium

[manualshift]

I can't believe these people.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...r-Stadium-site

[oldredfordette]

Good for them. Every time I drive by the site and see people frolicking on the grounds, I like to think it gives Mike Illitch a gas pain. And I smile.

[Blarf]

I can't believe these people.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...r-Stadium-site

What can't you believe?

[Retroit]

I can't believe these people.

Which ones? Those who are trying to maintain the field for the enjoyment of all, or those that apparently have nothing better to do than kick the first group off?

[Whitehouse]

What can't you believe?

<---doesn't realize when sarcasm laughs in his face.

[Hamtragedy]

I hate people who cut the grass and knock down the weeds when no one else is willing to lift a finger to do it themselves. I'm so glad that the people who haven't fixed their lawnmower or don't have a one never thank those assholes. No thanks to them, a street corner looks so much nicer and civilized.

I also look forward to all the election signs that will go up there, then remain, after we dumpster dive at the polls next month. Those look so much better than cut grass. Wait, maybe one of those people running for office will actually cut their own grass for the next two weeks. I hope they win this time, and continue to cut their grass, not like last time when they lost, and then relied on someone else to cut their grass for two years.

[professorscott]

It's comforting to know that the Detroit Police - who didn't have time to send anyone to my house in Detroit the two times we were burglarized, or to send anyone to check on things the two times my car was stolen, which is why my wife and I moved out of Detroit permanently - have time to make sure nobody trespasses on the old ballpark.

[CLAUDE G]

It aint tresspassing if the gates are not locked!

[carlscomputers]

I still have not gotten over the whole demolition thing! The City kept saying we need to tear it down so we can develop the site?! What's there now? Memories! I hollered about using the old Tiger Stadium for a Minor League Team where you could take the family, get a $2 hot dog, pay $5 at the gate & have a good time. I'm sure there could have been many other uses as well, but noooooo, tear it down they said! Nobody seems to give a damn about history in this town & then they have the audacity to kick people off the field who are willing to cut the grass, pick up the trash & have some fun, yet they say there's no money to keep the grass cut, but we don't want you to cut it either???!!! Ok, I'm done venting for the night... Ha! Ha!

[DetroitScooter]

We should all go down and get arrested. If only everyone was this committed to a cause. I salute them.

[UpTown]

It's comforting to know that the Detroit Police - who didn't have time to send anyone to my house in Detroit the two times we were burglarized, or to send anyone to check on things the two times my car was stolen, which is why my wife and I moved out of Detroit permanently - have time to make sure nobody trespasses on the old ballpark.

It just shows that those who have power are not contributing to any positive energy within the city. They threaten and intimidate people who are merely trying to enjoy themselves on a hallowed site. Where is the sense of community and brotherhood? And Professorscott is correct: they harass a non-threat, and do not respond to actual threats. Almost cowardice in a way. I know it's tough to be a Detroit police officer, but seriously, the people were tresspassing, but there's a slumlord a few miles away who has an entire city park under his thumb.

[manualshift]

It aint tresspassing if the gates are not locked!

You might be correct on this.

State law on recreational trespassing prohibits trespassing on farm lands and wooded lands adjacent farm land where there is no trespassing signage or the area is fenced. The other state law on trespass is violated where one remains on the land after the owner or agent tells you to leave.

Of course there are city ordinances too. In Detroit, Sec. 38-4-1.5. - Unauthorized climbing, etc., of buildings. A public or private fence would probably be considered a structure. So, fence climbing is a violation of the city ordinance classified as an offense against property [[essentially trespassing).

No issue with Sec. 38-4-1. - Trespassing in vacant buildings. No building to trespass in.

Does the city own the site?

[econ expat]

You might be correct on this.


Of course there are city ordinances too. In Detroit, Sec. 38-4-1.5. - Unauthorized climbing, etc., of buildings. A public or private fence would probably be considered a structure. So, fence climbing is a violation of the city ordinance classified as an offense against property [[essentially trespassing).

No issue with Sec. 38-4-1. - Trespassing in vacant buildings. No building to trespass in.

Does the city own the site?

1977- After the Lions moved to Pontiac, Fetzer complained financial losses from owning Tiger Stadium, also hinted at moving to a new stadium.
CAY arranged a $1 buyout of the stadium. And all of us who bought tickets from then on paid $1[[+) surcharge on admission tickets for maintenance. Not exactly money well spent?

[manualshift]

Not clear to me why the city would care about people using the field.

The public can not gain a prescriptive easement after fifteen years of continuous uninterrupted use [[or a million years).

[unclefrank]

It just shows that those who have power are not contributing to any positive energy within the city. They threaten and intimidate people who are merely trying to enjoy themselves on a hallowed site. Where is the sense of community and brotherhood? And Professorscott is correct: they harass a non-threat, and do not respond to actual threats. Almost cowardice in a way. I know it's tough to be a Detroit police officer, but seriously, the people were tresspassing, but there's a slumlord a few miles away who has an entire city park under his thumb.

It beats chasing real crooks!

[Pam]

Her granddaughters, Krista Darin of Toronto and Catherine Darin of Philadelphia, held a bag of Katherine's ashes and scattered them on the outfield grass near second base.

Is this illegal? If not, maybe it should be.

[lizaanne]

Is this illegal? If not, maybe it should be.

It's totally illegal - you can't go spreading human cremains around where ever you like. How horribly disrespectful to the dignity of the human person as well, to dump their body where dogs will leave a dump and people will walk all over them. Tacky tacky tacky - and horribly sad. How much nicer if they had placed her cremains somewhere with a plaque about her dedication and love of the stadium. Oh well, too late now.

As for the folks keeping the old park clean and using it - I think that is totally awesome, and I think the city needs to put their energy toward more important things like REAL crime prevention.

[cman710]

Considering the city's lack of resources to maintain the site, it is absurd that they would chase these people off the field. This is precisely the kind of dedication needed to help improve the city, and the city has needlessly put a damper on the whole thing. Someone should really try to get the attention of a council member or the mayor.

[MCP-001]

How many square miles of Detroit are vacant?

And the city sends cars out to harass people mowing the lawn?!?

I'd recommend that the city just throw up its hands and request that the state to come in and run things since it has low-grade morons making asinine decisions like this.

Unfortunately, Lansing is no better off...

[DetroitScooter]

It's totally illegal - you can't go spreading human cremains around where ever you like. How horribly disrespectful to the dignity of the human person as well, to dump their body where dogs will leave a dump and people will walk all over them. Tacky tacky tacky - and horribly sad. How much nicer if they had placed her cremains somewhere with a plaque about her dedication and love of the stadium. Oh well, too late now.

As for the folks keeping the old park clean and using it - I think that is totally awesome, and I think the city needs to put their energy toward more important things like REAL crime prevention.

Recall that littering is also against the law, as well as not cleaning up where "dogs will leave a dump". The sterilized ashes are probably the cleanest thing on that ground.

[manualshift]

I saw civilians trimming severely overgrown trees in a public park last weekend. Pretty sure these trees are property of the City of Detroit. More evidence of the spread of rampant criminality and self-help.

[Huggybear]

Articles like the one in the paper often muddle simultaneous altruistic and antisocial behavior - with the suggestion that they somehow cancel each other out. People in Detroit for decades have maintained property that belongs to the city - things like mowing the medians in residential boulevards, plowing streets, and things like that. And that's now branched out into parks and other places. But this article makes the suggestion that if one group of people comes onto the Tiger Stadium site and plays baseball, that it's somehow OK because that group might also mow the lawn. I would think twice before signing off on that conclusion.

If the choices are [[a) a weed-choked field that no one enters or [[b) a neatly manicured field in which people trespass to play ball, there are circumstances that would actually make the weed-choked field preferable. If you believe that the rule of law is important, you might conclude that access to the site has to be controlled - because that is what the law says, and it has to be enforced.

To say that the city has "better things to do" than enforcing trespassing laws on vacant lots is the same form of situational ethics that rationalizes an array of behaviors that are sadly everyday issues in Detroit: running red lights, drinking from open containers on the street, wandering onto a ball field and playing there, exploring abandoned buildings, vandalizing other people's property, dumping tires in vacant lots, stripping architectural details, pursuing drug and sex addictions in the city, and burning vacant houses. The patronizing refrain — often heard from the blue-eyed constituency confronted in flagrante delicto — is that the police should be pursuing "real" crimes. Well, all of these are still real crimes, even if they are often committed by white people and there is no specific and immediately identifiable human victim.

Everything that is on the books is there because democratically-elected officials decided that they should be there. That is what society has decided is the norm. When you start to depart from that because you [[personally) think it's pointless to obey the law, you're not just flouting the law - you're also telling your neighbors [[and representative democracy) to go to hell. And you would have no legitimate reason to complain when someone puts a brick through your car window to steal something because he thinks that petty larceny is excusable. A lot of what has happened here came about because everyone treated the city's law as optional and the city itself as disposable. Where there is no respect for [[or awareness of) the limits between your property and rights and those of others, the result is far worse than a couple of acres of un-mown ball field.

And come now, is the cop driving down Michigan Avenue really confronted by a choice between stopping a rape in progress and stopping what he's seeing going on right then and there?

"Um, Adam-12, we have a rape in progress at Seven Mile and Gratiot."

"Uh, copy that, um... can't do; I have to bust a bunch of crackers playing Ty Cobb at Michigan and Trumbull."

The whole argument is a canard. And there is a deterrent value in busting suburbanites [[or Detroiters) acting like they own a place when they don't.

Considering the city's lack of resources to maintain the site, it is absurd that they would chase these people off the field. This is precisely the kind of dedication needed to help improve the city, and the city has needlessly put a damper on the whole thing. Someone should really try to get the attention of a council member or the mayor.

[cman710]

Huggybear, I completely understand your concern with law and order, and I agree that the city needs to step up enforcement on certain quality of life crimes. I believe that "broken window" theory policing works, and I am in favor of enforcing the rule of law.

That said, I think that we need to approach these issues realistically. All the other things you mention have obvious negative consequences. Running red lights can cause someone to be killed [[whether pedestrian or other driver). Drinking open containers on the street does not necessarily hurt anyone directly, but hurts the quality of life, and if rampant, would lead to other problems. Exploring abandoned buildings has some negatives - someone could get hurt, plus urban explorers are sometimes destructive of other people's property. Dumping tires in vacant lots not only creates a potential fire hazard, but reduces the quality of life of anyone nearby. It also encourages further illegal dumping. Stripping architectural details hurts us all because we lose part of our shared heritage, besides the fact that it is stealing. Drug and sex addictions clearly have awful negative effects, as do burnt out hulks.

How could you compare that to trespassing on an open field, mowing the lawn, and playing a baseball game? The reality is that the city has finite resources with which to combat crime. Those limited resources should be employed to address the worst quality of life crimes first. Moreover, do we really want to discourage people from doing things like cleaning up parks and other city-owned property?

[manualshift]

If they want to keep people off they should lock the gate. We do not want random police officers deciding on a case by case basis which of these thousands of city owned lots are off limits to the public? You don't want people on it? Fence it and put a lock on it and ticket/arrest violators.

Any use for this vacant land is better then having it just sit there.

[Detroitej72]

Everything that is on the books is there because democratically-elected officials decided that they should be there. That is what society has decided is the norm.

Like this: http://detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=6467