Where were you during the 1967 Detroit Riot?

[English]

I was born more than a decade after the riots. I've heard the stories. I've read the literature. But I don't have the lived experiences that seem to have shaped the fate of the city and the region. I'm not alone. No one under 45 remembers any of this.

I appreciated the reminiscing during the 40 year anniversary, but was hoping for grander gestures of reconciliation from the SE Michigan community at large, from both Detroiters and suburbanites, and people of all races. Yet 43 years after the riots, we are more racially divided than ever in this region. 43 years later and there's still so much finger-pointing and anger on all sides. This isn't natural. 43 years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the United States and Japan were trading partners and kids my age were sent there on exchange trips. 43 years after the Berlin Wall was constructed, Germany had been reunified for years.

Do you mean to tell me that what happened in July 1967 was comparable to nuclear warfare or genocide??? How come others can get over inhuman atrocities and build prosperous cities and societies fit for the 21st century, and we can't? What has gone so terribly wrong in Detroit?

43 years after the 12th Street Riot, so many people have yet to move on from 1967. What's so different here? Why the blanket demands for apologies from one group or the other? Why? This racialized acrimony in Detroit almost reminds me of how fresh the Civil War still is in parts of the South, but even the South hasn't let their anger kill their economic prospects. There were riots all over this country in the 1960s. There have been riots in other cities during my lifetime. Yet other cities haven't suffered the fate of Detroit, and there isn't this persistent bitterness. What will it take to let this feud go?

[Detroit Stylin]

Really? What other group rioted?

Ummmmm....on some real....I have always wonder where you stood at on relations here. Now I am beginning to see....

[Wintersmommy]

I was born more than a decade after the riots. I've heard the stories. I've read the literature. But I don't have the lived experiences that seem to have shaped the fate of the city and the region. I'm not alone. No one under 45 remembers any of this.

I appreciated the reminiscing during the 40 year anniversary, but was hoping for grander gestures of reconciliation. 43 years later and there's still so much finger-pointing and anger on all sides. 43 years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the United States and Japan were trading partners and kids my age were sent there on exchange trips. 43 years after the Berlin Wall was constructed, Germany had been reunified for years.

But 43 years after the 12th Street Riot, so many people have yet to move on from 1967. What's so different here? Why the blanket demands for apologies from one group or the other? Why? This racialized acrimony in Detroit almost reminds me of how fresh the Civil War still is in parts of the South. There were riots all over this country in the 1960s. There have been riots in other cities during my lifetime. Yet other cities haven't suffered the fate of Detroit, and there isn't this persistent bitterness. What will it take to let this feud go?

Very well said...

[Buy American]

Ummmmm....on some real....I have always wonder where you stood at on relations here. Now I am beginning to see....

Yeah, this gives you a lot of information on where I stand doesn't it?

[Downriver Gal]

This is an interesting Metro Times article that is mostly about the 1943 riot, but it discusses the differences between 1943 and 1967:

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=5041

“The one in ’43 was a real riot, and that’s frightening,” says writer Marvin Arnett. “Let me take you to the ’67 riot, OK — which always kind of irks me when they say ‘riot,’ because it wasn’t a riot, it was economic upheaval. And I’ll tell you what happened [in ’67]. I stood on my porch, I was an adult, and watched people looting Robinson’s Furniture Store down on Grand River, and they were taking out sofas and chairs, and there would be a black man on one end of that sofa and a white man on the other end. That doesn’t seem like a race riot to me. It was more economic, it was more the ‘have-nots’ giving the ‘haves’ some trouble.”

[EastsideAl]

I was going to say something short and nasty in response to Cass '66's vile little stinkbomb of a comment, until I read the much more sensible and very well put response from English above. Time to move on...

[canuck]

Evidently Detroit needs a lot more people like you English, but you are one of a kind!

[evergreen]

We were living just off 12th street, less than a mile north of where the riot started. All Sunday morning we knew there was a riot going on, but the media was refusing to report it. Mayor Cavanagh believed that news of the riot would fan the flames. As morning headed into afternoon, they were forced to broadcast it because people were coming back from their weekends in Canada and driving north on 12th and running into a situation, Plus, I am sure that by that point the smoke was pretty visible.

The rest of the week is pretty much like everyone else's, fire, the terrible smell of smoke [[fires are scary - especially when the fire department is overwhelmed, those were mostly wood frame houses in that area), gunfire and nights sleeping on the floor because of concerns about stray bullets. We moved about a month later, but the papers were signed on the new house before the riot. The National Guardsmen were pleasant once the shooting stopped, they even played ball with some of the boys on our street. We were disappointed to learn that they had left racist graffiti on the walls at Central High where they were headquartered.

My favorite story is about my older brother, then in his late teens. That Saturday night, he had gotten dressed up to go to the very blind pig that got raided by the police, thereby triggering the riot. He was headed out the door when my mom asked him where he was going. He always said that for some reason, he just didn't feel like arguing with or lying to her. He marched back upstairs, changed clothes and stayed home that evening.

12th street never recovered. People just don't know how vibrant 12th was back in the late 50's and 60's. Walking to and from school on that street was an adventure. To drive down there now, and I do so several times a year, is to go through a desert.

Empires come and go. Detroit never really recovered. Just drive down 12th. Nobody and nothing benefitted and the loot has long since gone to landfills.

[carlscomputers]

http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/ru...1j8EZlkItATdNQ

http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/pr...g6czz3LOOGUvAA

[Detroit Stylin]

I was born more than a decade after the riots. I've heard the stories. I've read the literature. But I don't have the lived experiences that seem to have shaped the fate of the city and the region. I'm not alone. No one under 45 remembers any of this.

I appreciated the reminiscing during the 40 year anniversary, but was hoping for grander gestures of reconciliation from the SE Michigan community at large, from both Detroiters and suburbanites, and people of all races. Yet 43 years after the riots, we are more racially divided than ever in this region. 43 years later and there's still so much finger-pointing and anger on all sides. This isn't natural. 43 years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the United States and Japan were trading partners and kids my age were sent there on exchange trips. 43 years after the Berlin Wall was constructed, Germany had been reunified for years.

Do you mean to tell me that what happened in July 1967 was comparable to nuclear warfare or genocide??? How come others can get over inhuman atrocities and build prosperous cities and societies fit for the 21st century, and we can't? What has gone so terribly wrong in Detroit?

43 years after the 12th Street Riot, so many people have yet to move on from 1967. What's so different here? Why the blanket demands for apologies from one group or the other? Why? This racialized acrimony in Detroit almost reminds me of how fresh the Civil War still is in parts of the South, but even the South hasn't let their anger kill their economic prospects. There were riots all over this country in the 1960s. There have been riots in other cities during my lifetime. Yet other cities haven't suffered the fate of Detroit, and there isn't this persistent bitterness. What will it take to let this feud go?

Beautifully stated and totally agreed with....

[English]

Thanks, wintersmommy, DetroitStylin, canuck & EastsideAl. I appreciate hearing the stories about the long hot summer of '67 and love Detroit's history, and have been really enjoying the memories from people here who are just sharing what happened during one of our most tragic moments. I just wish we could find a way to honor our past, AND move forward without hating each other so much.

I've always thought that someone should make the '67 riots into a serious feature-length film or [[better yet) a cable television series. Have a strong ensemble cast, explore that time period from all points of view and all walks of life, perhaps add a prologue or epilogue set in today's Detroit. They could interview many of you who are posting here, use all the books and documentaries that have been produced about '67, and I'm sure we all have friends and folks who'd love to help with the oral history. I mean, my grandma still has the LIFE magazine with the picture of the tank in front of their house. With all the filming being done here lately, it'd be great to see that happen. Besides, it would have one of the best soundtracks ever.

It might be cathartic for us as a city and region, and it might help explain why Detroit is the way that it is to outsiders. It would provide some nuance to a discussion that's usually only told from one or two points of view. It might do for the city of Detroit what something like "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" did for the Funk Brothers. I don't know... maybe I'm just dreaming here.

[carlscomputers]

Thanks, wintersmommy, DetroitStylin, canuck & EastsideAl. I appreciate hearing the stories about the long hot summer of '67 and love Detroit's history, and have been really enjoying the memories from people here who are just sharing what happened during one of our most tragic moments. I just wish we could find a way to honor our past, AND move forward without hating each other so much.

I've always thought that someone should make the '67 riots into a serious feature-length film or [[better yet) a cable television series. Have a strong ensemble cast, explore that time period from all points of view and all walks of life, perhaps add a prologue or epilogue set in today's Detroit. They could interview many of you who are posting here, use all the books and documentaries that have been produced about '67, and I'm sure we all have friends and folks who'd love to help with the oral history. I mean, my grandma still has the LIFE magazine with the picture of the tank in front of their house. With all the filming being done here lately, it'd be great to see that happen. Besides, it would have one of the best soundtracks ever.

It might be cathartic for us as a city and region, and it might help explain why Detroit is the way that it is to outsiders. It would provide some nuance to a discussion that's usually only told from one or two points of view. It might do for the city of Detroit what something like "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" did for the Funk Brothers. I don't know... maybe I'm just dreaming here.

Bravo! It's enough script material in this thread alone! I hope there's some screenwriters out there. I would like to see it real & gritty, not sugar coated, include some of those indirect stories as well...

[Susan Messer]

English, etc., In this context I'd like to speak up for my novel--Grand River and Joy. It looks mainly at the black-Jewish piece of the story, and the northwest side of the city. But in a larger sense, it's concerned with the lack of understandings that are so difficult to resolve and that have such explosive potential.

[RickBeall]

English wrote:
>>This racialized acrimony in Detroit almost reminds me of how fresh the Civil War still is in parts of the South, .... persistent bitterness. What will it take to let this feud go?

That is an interesting analogy English. Traveling through the South as a kid, I noticed you could buy a Civil War hats and swords everywhere. But in the North there was nothing. I always thought this was because the losing side has a hard time forgetting about a war because they lost. The winning side is vindicated and can move on. Maybe, in Detroit, no one can forget the riot because no one won.

[Corn.Bot]

Maybe, in Detroit, no one can forget the riot because no one won.

Succintly put and possibly exactly right.

I wish we could know why, and how, Detroit is this way. We were not the first, only, or last city to deal with race riots, corruption, citizen flight, and poor leadership. Why do we seem to be the one city that cannot seem to slow, much less stop, the severe downward spiral that continues?

[jfk]

I was all of 12 when the riots happened. My Dad had a friend who lived in the first house south of 8 mile on Lauder, across from the 8 mile armory. He had a built in pool and because my dad couldn't go to work he decided it would be a good day to go swimming. The family went over around 1pm on Monday and what I remember the most was all of the thick black smoke billowing in the sky towards the southeast. This friend also had a sun deck by the pool and as we sat up there around 3pm we saw the parade of police cars,tanks, jeeps with machine guns,and army trucks coming out of the armory and head east on 8 mile towards Woodward. Needless to say we didn't stay past dark. The next night my Dad got a call from the Detroit Police telling him he needed to meet them at the Lumber yard [[Roger Hanson Lumber on Myers at the railroad tracks) because the alarm was going off. He snatched up my oldest brother and a shotgun and headed down Schoolcraft [[ we lived in Redford Twsp) to meet them.Upon arrival the DPD was there and they looked over the property and then told him to just leave the alarm off because if was going to get burned an alarm wasn't going to help. I also remeber Redford Police were running 4 man cruisers during the riots in case the "trouble makers" decided to come into the Twsp.

[Stosh]

Succintly put and possibly exactly right.

I wish we could know why, and how, Detroit is this way. We were not the first, only, or last city to deal with race riots, corruption, citizen flight, and poor leadership. Why do we seem to be the one city that cannot seem to slow, much less stop, the severe downward spiral that continues?

I think it has a lot to do with the quality of the people the city and surrounding areas attracted in the glory days of the auto industry as well as the wartime industrial buildup. People moved to the "arsenal of democracy" due to the large number of unskilled jobs. The tendency of these jobs being filled by, for the most part, uneducated workers could explain a lot.

The workers from the South brought their prejudices with them, both black and white. The lack of education could explain a little bit of the ignorance and racism inherent in both Black and White Detroiters. This, plus the distrust and racism of the vast amount of immigrant laborers that were still present up to the 1970's added a lot to the problem.

A lot of people felt betrayed by the city due to the increase in crime and the perception of the city turning a blind eye to the underlying issues behind it. The fleeing Detroiters, first White, and now Black and Brown, are all concerned about preserving their way of life, their families.

The sniping behind the comments and backbiting in the region is all about control, and power, naturally. There's no lack of ignorance in this region, still. Habits and values ingrained in generations continue to be perpetuated, whether you think so or not. I think that the only way to bust this cycle is to attract other people to the area. Maybe by an infusion of new blood these ingrained tendencies will be quelled once and for all.

[kryptonite]

I remember the riots fairly well. We had moved to Ohio and at the end of the rioting we visited relatives in the Plymouth/Greenfield area. There had been no rioting in their area, so we drove down Grand River. Some of the buildings were still burning and I believe there were still National Guard vehicles. It was sad seeing the look on people's faces, very despairing.

[laurin]

I think it has a lot to do with the quality of the people the city and surrounding areas attracted in the glory days of the auto industry as well as the wartime industrial buildup. People moved to the "arsenal of democracy" due to the large number of unskilled jobs. The tendency of these jobs being filled by, for the most part, uneducated workers could explain a lot.

The workers from the South brought their prejudices with them, both black and white. The lack of education could explain a little bit of the ignorance and racism inherent in both Black and White Detroiters. This, plus the distrust and racism of the vast amount of immigrant laborers that were still present up to the 1970's added a lot to the problem.

A lot of people felt betrayed by the city due to the increase in crime and the perception of the city turning a blind eye to the underlying issues behind it. The fleeing Detroiters, first White, and now Black and Brown, are all concerned about preserving their way of life, their families.

The sniping behind the comments and backbiting in the region is all about control, and power, naturally. There's no lack of ignorance in this region, still. Habits and values ingrained in generations continue to be perpetuated, whether you think so or not. I think that the only way to bust this cycle is to attract other people to the area. Maybe by an infusion of new blood these ingrained tendencies will be quelled once and for all.

I think this is so important. We have a hard time attracting and keeping new blood to region and without it we seem to stay in the same cycle.

[jfk]

If you got a half hour watch this http://vimeo.com/5337314

[Hermod]

I think it has a lot to do with the quality of the people the city and surrounding areas attracted in the glory days of the auto industry as well as the wartime industrial buildup. People moved to the "arsenal of democracy" due to the large number of unskilled jobs. The tendency of these jobs being filled by, for the most part, uneducated workers could explain a lot.

The workers from the South brought their prejudices with them, both black and white. The lack of education could explain a little bit of the ignorance and racism inherent in both Black and White Detroiters. This, plus the distrust and racism of the vast amount of immigrant laborers that were still present up to the 1970's added a lot to the problem.

The majority of whites in Detroit in 1950 were not uneducated migrants from the south. The majority of them were European immigrants and their descendants who had come to the US during the period 1880 to 1930 plus the postwar DPs from Europe. These people did not "bring their prejudices with them" when they came to Detroit.

[gazhekwe]

If they didn't bring them, they sure found them when they got here. Jim Crow was alive and well in those days.

[Stosh]

The majority of whites in Detroit in 1950 were not uneducated migrants from the south. The majority of them were European immigrants and their descendants who had come to the US during the period 1880 to 1930 plus the postwar DPs from Europe. These people did not "bring their prejudices with them" when they came to Detroit.

I never said that the southerners were a majority, did I? Please reread the above statement by me. And BTW, being an offspring of one of those immigrant families, allow me to say that you are completely and totally wrong. Prejudices are easy. Fear of the unfamiliar, the strange, the foreign, the "other" are easy. You just have to be opposed to someone that is NOT LIKE YOU.

Among the uneducated, these fears are easily played on by people looking to profit. Remember the real estate block busters that paid black people to walk up and down the streets in white neighborhoods, scaring the whites into selling at a loss? Sometimes that's all it took to set off the blockbusting. Think that's the sign of intelligence?

[mikefmich]

This is easy....I was having band practice Sunday afternoon at Gunston & Gratiot. One of that small handful of events of the 60's that we remember exactly where we were when hearing of it. My folks came by the house to make sure I knew about the curfew, hell I didn't know about the riot going on...yet.

My dad worked for MichCon at the time in service management....he saw a lot, and related a lot.

My cousins wife was a nurse at Det. Rec. Hospital. That figure of 40-something deaths during the riot I've always questioned for many reasons besides her.

Two years later I was in the Natl. Guard unit out of the artillery armory that spent the riots on the street. There was very little turn over between 1967 & 1969....heard a lot of stories. More wondering about the "official" victim tally.

Two yrs later dad was on the New Detroit committee, became one of the longest serving reps. in that position.

Here we are 43 yrs later....where do we go now?

[reddog289]

To put in my two cents, I grew up hearing from my parents , grandparents, Uncles, Co workers. About July 1967. I have never heard from the mouth of an Afro/American their thoughts on this time. I have only heard the same story repeated by members of my family and friends on why Detroit was never the same after those days 43 years ago.The only thing I have really gotten out of this is that them N#######,s wrecked Detroit and and Colman Young killed it off.But you know as I grow older, I see places in the neighborhoods I traveled as a youngster in both Detroit and its neighboring cities and they both have gotten "long of tooth".
Growing up after the riots I have heard, and witnessed alot.As my cousin put it when I was a teen when we visited our Grandmother around 7/Evergreen. He was going to Eastern at the time.The middle class lived here at one time, then the blacks moved in. Next the Hillbillies like you will come.Well 20 years later I am here He is upstate.I am not down at Ever /7 or Old Redford, But none the less I miss going to the Dairy Queen at 7mi & Pierson or the one at Joy rd &Stahalen .
No one wants to deal with what happened 43 yrs ago again.White, Black or whomever.