The Grande Ballroom

**papillonaquatique** · July-20-10, 06:30 PM

I am starting this thread in the hopes of finding some photos of The Grande Ballroom. I am trying to find pictures from its original heyday from 1920's-1944. I especially welcome pictures that show what the ground floor was used for. Better yet if anyone can locate the original blueprints or drawings for the building I would be quite grateful for your assistance.

From what I have seen the building is in quite the sorry shape at the moment but I wonder just how bad it really is. I mean obviously the building needs a new roof,ceiling,rewiring,replumbing and such but I haven't seen any pictures from the bottom floor to see just how bad it really is. From what I have been able to gleam the first floor appears to be either boarded or bricked up and painted over but I can't really tell.

Any information is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

**daddeeo** · July-20-10, 07:15 PM

Is that dump still there?
I thought once they tore down the Riveria, that place wouldn't be far behind.

**papillonaquatique** · July-20-10, 07:28 PM

To my knowledge the building is still there and is currently owned by a church who bought the building and was planning to turn it into their new HQ. However that was back in 2006 and the building is in even worse shape now. There is a group of people who have been trying to get the building listed on the National Register of Historic Places but they need to owner to sign and since 2008 the owner has refused to do so. The roof is basically missing and the water that has leaked [[and I use the word 'leaked' loosely as there are entire sections of the roof that are missing) in has caused the ceiling and plaster to fall to the floor. I wonder if the building could be salvaged somehow.

**Kathleen** · July-21-10, 06:56 AM

Just wondering if your request is for one of the two known research efforts underway to document the Grande's history. I'm aware of the documentary "Louder than Love" and the Grande Ballroom website [[hosted by our own DYes webmaster).

**Whaler** · July-21-10, 07:59 AM

Grande Ballroom last year

**papillonaquatique** · July-21-10, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Whaler

Grande Ballroom last year

That picture is quite depressing. Not just the building itself but the fact that the building is not secure. I always see pictures of the stage but what about backstage or a view looking from the stage? First floor pictures are seemingly non-existant which makes me wonder if the building can be saved at all. Are those spots of mold on the dance floor?

**Moetown** · July-21-10, 05:27 PM

The first floor is vacant storefront space and is at least as bad as the the ballroom, maybe worse.

To repair it would be a total gut job leaving the outer walls and starting over.
Many old and newer pics are available with a google search.
The vanity ballroom is a close twin to the grande and in better shape.

**sol lahmi** · July-21-10, 05:43 PM

papillon-
Just so happens that the team behind the documentary about the Grande, "Louder than Love" is holding a fundraiser this Friday at the Magic Bag [[ http://detnews.com/article/20100720/...t-s-Grande-era ).
I'm sure there will be plenty of folks at that event who could provide you with an excess of information about the Grande...might want to check it out.

**papillonaquatique** · July-21-10, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Moetown

The first floor is vacant storefront space and is at least as bad as the the ballroom, maybe worse.

To repair it would be a total gut job leaving the outer walls and starting over.
Many old and newer pics are available with a google search.
The vanity ballroom is a close twin to the grande and in better shape.

The bottom floor appears boarded up and or bricked over. I can't really tell. I figured that repairing The Grande would be a bit of a gut and replace job but if I were doing it I would want to try and retain what original things I could but it appears that thought may be too little too late. If I could have my pick of what to salvage in that building it would be the stage and the hardwood floor but I don't know what condition those are in exactly or it that would even be possible.

How is the first floors actual floor and is the foundation stable?

The Vanity Ballroom may be a close twin but it doesn't have the history and love behind it like The Grande does.

**papillonaquatique** · July-21-10, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by sol lahmi

papillon-
Just so happens that the team behind the documentary about the Grande, "Louder than Love" is holding a fundraiser this Friday at the Magic Bag [[ http://detnews.com/article/20100720/...t-s-Grande-era ).
I'm sure there will be plenty of folks at that event who could provide you with an excess of information about the Grande...might want to check it out.

I would if I could. I don't live in Detroit.

**detroitbob** · July-21-10, 06:36 PM

The Vanity, although not as memorable in history [[as the Grande had it's 2nd career as a rock venue), is architecturally more interesting...many of the molds for the Mayan design were from the original Fisher Theatre design. The last photographs I saw of the Vanity were not encouraging either...both buildings have significant damage due to roof deterioration. Not much hope for either, I fear.

**papillonaquatique** · July-21-10, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbob

The Vanity, although not as memorable in history [[as the Grande had it's 2nd career as a rock venue), is architecturally more interesting...many of the molds for the Mayan design were from the original Fisher Theatre design. The last photographs I saw of the Vanity were not encouraging either...both buildings have significant damage due to roof deterioration. Not much hope for either, I fear.

Are these Mayan molds still in the building or have they been destroyed by vandals? I thought the Vanity was in decent shape and I have heard nothing about it deteriorating at all.

Bearinabox · July-21-10, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by papillonaquatique

Are these Mayan molds still in the building or have they been destroyed by vandals? I thought the Vanity was in decent shape and I have heard nothing about it deteriorating at all.

Why do you expect that you would have heard about it? Are you a clairvoyant?

**papillonaquatique** · July-21-10, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

Why do you expect that you would have heard about it? Are you a clairvoyant?

I just did a little browsing around online and because the exterior of the building is in decent condition I assumed that the building was probably well maintained. I clearly assumed wrong. The Vanity does appear to be in better shape than The Grande but the floor apparently has springs beneath it. Considering there are puddles of water in the pictures that I have seen that can not be good news. I feel bad for such pretty buildings that have fallen into such decay. Most of these were really pretty in their time.

**Moetown** · July-22-10, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by papillonaquatique

The bottom floor appears boarded up and or bricked over. I can't really tell. I figured that repairing The Grande would be a bit of a gut and replace job but if I were doing it I would want to try and retain what original things I could but it appears that thought may be too little too late. If I could have my pick of what to salvage in that building it would be the stage and the hardwood floor but I don't know what condition those are in exactly or it that would even be possible.

How is the first floors actual floor and is the foundation stable?

The Vanity Ballroom may be a close twin but it doesn't have the history and love behind it like The Grande does.

The first floor of the grande is destroyed, severe water/weather damage, the storefronts are bricked/boarded up.
The foundation and outer walls are probably sound and the main staircase and thats about it.
Forget about saving the stage and wood floors, the roof has had holes for at least 20 years, major rot and water/weather damage.

If it was repaired you would still end up with a concert venue with a capacity of about 1800, and no parking and with houses directly behind it.

Also with the amount of work needed it would have nothing original left anyway, so that would diminish the historical value a lot.

The vanity and grande were designed by Charles Agree and built within a few years of each other. While both are in crappy areas at least the vanity has plenty of room for parking, the entire block behind it is empty.
Both are total rehabs but the vanity has been closed to the weather longer so some
of the original Aztec theme might be able to be saved. I have not been in the vanity but the first floor has to be in better shape than the grande.
I hope at least one of them will be saved.

**Moetown** · July-22-10, 02:55 AM

This is a good source for new and old pics of the grande and vanity and others.

http://detroiturbex.com/content/park...rksandrec.html

**buildingsofdetroit** · July-24-10, 02:35 PM

More Grande interior shots:

www.buildingsofdetroit.com/places/grande

**Gistok** · July-24-10, 07:16 PM

Here's the link to a 2008 DYES thread about the Vanity [[and also the Grande) Ballroom... It's where the Fisher Theatre architects [[Graven & Mayger) were first mentioned as likely having some of their architectural features used in both ballrooms....

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1229585155

Apparently the architect of both ballrooms [[Charles N. Agree) never mentioned that he used other architects architectural details in his own work.

**smogboy** · July-25-10, 12:37 AM

I heard the Ann Delisi/ WDET interview with the guys who working on the "Louder Than Love" project a few weeks back and it really sounds like a great project. I saw parts of the trailer that they put out to get more investors and it really looks sharp. They really did a nice job getting some of the interviews and even despite the place darn near falling apart around their ears, they made the place look a lot sharper than it actually is today.

**douglasm** · July-25-10, 10:49 AM

A couple semi related questions.....

1) was Punch Andrews connected in any way with The Grande, or just the Cinderella?

2) what's the story with Trans-Love Energies and the Varsity Theatre on Livernois just up from Six Mile?

**bobby wobby** · July-25-10, 11:58 AM

I disagree I think the Grandes heyday was in the late 60,s

**TONY BOX 42** · July-25-10, 08:41 PM

The back end of the Grande was E.Co.42's quarters.

**56packman** · July-25-10, 11:40 PM

Papillionantique--Good luck finding anything on the Grande from its early years, most all you see on the building was from the period in the 60s when the down-on-its-luck building was the site of a vibrant rock music scene. Very few people alive today care about the original purpose for constructing ballrooms like the Grande and Vanity [[name one building expressly constructed for the presentation of rock music--I don't know of one in the USA).
The Manning Brothers archive must have something on the building, they photographed every movie theater built in the teens-20s-30s-40s, they took all of those photos for insurance purposes, and I'm sure the Grande had the need to document what they were insuring.
Bobby Wobby--you think the Grande's heyday was the 60s because that music appeals to you. To the parents of the kids who hung out there in the 60s it was a huge slide downward from the music, fashion and standards of conduct they knew. All things are relative.

**Leo B** · July-26-10, 04:15 PM

Kathleen: For the record, Lowell and Detroit Yes! do not host www.thegrandeballroom.com, I do. Lowell has been very supportive of the project and I am a long time forum member.
I have hosted my Grande site for seven years now and I am presently compiling my research, interviews and photos into a book.

Over the years I have corresponded with many speculators interested in the ballroom property.
I always invite these individuals to chat over the phone about their interest and my archive. Unfortunately, most that actually do call turn out to be 12 year olds or acid casualties. The remainder were obviously not so serious.

**Kathleen** · July-26-10, 06:26 PM

Sorry, LeoB!! I didn't mean to give credit to others for your work. Not sure where I saw that info. I was just trying to figure out where this inquiry was headed and making sure that your research and the documentary project were both noted by papillonaquatique. Thanks for clarifying!!