Term Limits for the Detroit City Council.

[kraig]

Cara Blount, we all know you're a member of DetroitYes. Please bring up Term Limits [[2) to the Charter Commission. Thank you.

[Novine]

Look at how great those have worked out in Lansing.

[jams]

Term limits are another simplistic idea that doesn"t work

[iheartthed]

Electing council members by district is more pressing, IMO.

[kraig]

The model that we currently have is that the so-called public servant is expecting to be publicly served for the rest of their lives. Lansing is no worse off than it was before. The problem is that their eligible for pensions far too early.

[Searay215]

Term limits are another simplistic idea that doesn"t work

I agree....the only thing that works is if voters get mad enough and vote the bums out!!! You will see a big change this fall in the elections.

[firstandten]

I took a few minutes and checked a city similar in population to Detroit, San Jose Ca to see how its governance works.

It seems like an interesting system.

BTW, Detroit needs to benchmark its governance structure in the worst way. What we have been doing doesn't work for us, and maybe some other folks are doing a better job.

But I digress, the council there is elected by districts, have term limits. Even though the mayor is elected by a city wide election there is a city manager that handles the budget.

On the city web site one of the council members believes in open government to the extent that he has memo's and other documents posted on his web page. The others have documents posted on their pages. You can go to the council persons page and get a pretty good idea as to what they are and are not doing.

Now, I'm sure they have problems because no system is perfect. But if we know what we have isn't working lets look at something else.

[kraig]

Electing council members by district is more pressing, IMO.

Since it's an issue that's already out there, I didn't mention it. Both ideas, whether separate or together, still rely on getting good people into office.

[1KielsonDrive]

Term limits are an excellent idea for almost all elective offices. I don't care what Lessenberry has to say about it. If the current number of terms aren't working, as in the case of our State Representatives and Senators, then increase the number of terms by one for a few years. Don't wreck what we worked so hard to obtain because of a few idiots. In the case of Detroit City Clowncil, it's a great idea to limit members to a few terms. Politicians are always going to try to find a trough to feed at. Our job is to limit the feed they get. One of the most difficult jobs ever.

[mam2009]

Term limits are an excellent idea for almost all elective offices. I don't care what Lessenberry has to say about it. If the current number of terms aren't working, as in the case of our State Representatives and Senators, then increase the number of terms by one for a few years. Don't wreck what we worked so hard to obtain because of a few idiots. In the case of Detroit City Clowncil, it's a great idea to limit members to a few terms. Politicians are always going to try to find a trough to feed at. Our job is to limit the feed they get. One of the most difficult jobs ever.

Seems to me that all those term limited folks just keep getting recycled into new elected positions or appointed to new positions of political influence anyway. If someone chooses public policy as a career, term limiting them doesn't make them disappear anymore than telling a doctor that s/he has to work at a different hospital or in a different specialty every eight years.

[EastsideAl]

Term limits are almost as stupid as voters.

[Novine]

"Seems to me that all those term limited folks just keep getting recycled into new elected positions or appointed to new positions of political influence anyway."

You're got that right. Check out the number of former political officials who are working their way back down the ladder from Lansing.

"Don't wreck what we worked so hard to obtain because of a few idiots."

What did you obtain? A revolving door of idiots? Can anyone say that we have a better crop of elected officials in Lansing today as compared to 10 years ago?

[Gistok]

"Seems to me that all those term limited folks just keep getting recycled into new elected positions or appointed to new positions of political influence anyway."

You're got that right. Check out the number of former political officials who are working their way back down the ladder from Lansing.

"Don't wreck what we worked so hard to obtain because of a few idiots."

What did you obtain? A revolving door of idiots? Can anyone say that we have a better crop of elected officials in Lansing today as compared to 10 years ago?

Gotta agree Novine.... term limits make for a great slogan, but little else....

The State Senate will get 31 of 38 new Senators this fall thanks to term limits. With the state of the state in such dismal condition, a crop of newbies is not the way to go.

All that is happening is the beaurocrats that make up the state House/Senate staff [[mainly the Chiefs of Staff)... become the "power behind the throne" when new elected officials hire seasoned veterans to work on their staff. And this [[to a lesser degree) is what happens on City Council as well.

Are we better served by this? I don't think so.

[1KielsonDrive]

Seems to me that all those term limited folks just keep getting recycled into new elected positions or appointed to new positions of political influence anyway. If someone chooses public policy as a career, term limiting them doesn't make them disappear anymore than telling a doctor that s/he has to work at a different hospital or in a different specialty every eight years.

Yup. But you don't stop trying to keep their snouts out of the trough.

[1KielsonDrive]

[quote=Novine;163985]"Seems to me that all those term limited folks just keep getting recycled into new elected positions or appointed to new positions of political influence anyway."

You're got that right. Check out the number of former political officials who are working their way back down the ladder from Lansing.

"Don't wreck what we worked so hard to obtain because of a few idiots."

What did you obtain? A revolving door of idiots? Can anyone say that we have a better crop of elected officials in Lansing today as compared to 10 years ago?[/quote]
No. But is that an excuse to stop trying? Hindsight is always 20/20.

[1KielsonDrive]

Gotta agree Novine.... term limits make for a great slogan, but little else....

The State Senate will get 31 of 38 new Senators this fall thanks to term limits. With the state of the state in such dismal condition, a crop of newbies is not the way to go.

All that is happening is the beaurocrats that make up the state House/Senate staff [[mainly the Chiefs of Staff)... become the "power behind the throne" when new elected officials hire seasoned veterans to work on their staff. And this [[to a lesser degree) is what happens on City Council as well.

Are we better served by this? I don't think so.

So we now have short-term incompetence as opposed to long-term corruption.

[English]

^I guess. Politically, we are so screwed on every level -- local, state, and national. I'll do my civic duty in August, but I've never been so cynical about an election.

[Novine]

"So we now have short-term incompetence as opposed to long-term corruption."

It's only short-term if you look at the individual lawmakers. What we have is a constant turnover of elected officials in Lansing where we get a fresh crop of no-nothings who care little about the long-term interests of the state and are only looking ahead to their next political position. As the current crop get rotated out, many of them move onto another political position where their name gets them elected and the incompetence spreads. Name one good thing that has come from term-limits in Lansing.

[1KielsonDrive]

"So we now have short-term incompetence as opposed to long-term corruption."

It's only short-term if you look at the individual lawmakers. What we have is a constant turnover of elected officials in Lansing where we get a fresh crop of no-nothings who care little about the long-term interests of the state and are only looking ahead to their next political position. As the current crop get rotated out, many of them move onto another political position where their name gets them elected and the incompetence spreads. Name one good thing that has come from term-limits in Lansing.

Name one good thing that has come from 'lifetime' positions. The problems we're experiencing come as much from polarization due to 24 hour news cycle, corporate propaganda, corporate take-overs of public functions, unlimited money and endless campaigns, as anything. I'm not now, nor have I ever said that all term-limits are entirely good, I'm just making the case for some limits on politicians. Hey, they make the laws and rules. They are truly our 'ruling monarchy'.

[kathy2trips]

Term limits are another simplistic idea that doesn't work

It works to curb corruption and prevents this job-for-live delusion some politicians live under. History bears this out. Some of the worst politicians were able to do their damage because they were in office for so long. A former mayor of Detroit comes quickly to mind, but no doubt there are others.

Shouldn't we apply simple, cost-effective solutions to problems FIRST? I mean, aren't you tired of people thinking THEY own their seat? You might have a good person in for 30 years, but it's a gamble. You could have [[another) bad one too. Want to risk it? Not me.

[Novine]

"Name one good thing that has come from 'lifetime' positions."

Experience that comes from serving in a position for a number of years. Name one other profession in our country where lack of experience leads to better performance.

"They are truly our 'ruling monarchy'."

That's a joke. Voters get a chance to end that "monarchy" every election. The only ones helped by term limits are lazy voters.

"Shouldn't we apply simple, cost-effective solutions to problems FIRST?"

Term limits are not a cost-effective solution. The mess the state is in today has been compounded by the lack of legislative experience and relationships among those serving in Lansing.

[Hermod]

Electing council members by district is more pressing, IMO.

Electing city councils by at-large voting was originally one of the great liberal/ progressive pushes on the basis that it would eliminate ward politics and elect people who sought the good of the entire city.

[Hermod]

^I guess. Politically, we are so screwed on every level -- local, state, and national. I'll do my civic duty in August, but I've never been so cynical about an election.

In the 1980s, my late father came to the conclusion that the best strategy for a voter was to vote against the incumbent regardless of party.

[kraig]

"So we now have short-term incompetence as opposed to long-term corruption."

It's only short-term if you look at the individual lawmakers. What we have is a constant turnover of elected officials in Lansing where we get a fresh crop of no-nothings who care little about the long-term interests of the state and are only looking ahead to their next political position. As the current crop get rotated out, many of them move onto another political position where their name gets them elected and the incompetence spreads. Name one good thing that has come from term-limits in Lansing.

That's easy. Granholm won't serve another term.

I do hear what everyone is saying about term limits, and it's understandable. But, you also have to look at these politicians that hang around until it's time for them to check out. What has John conyers done in forty years? Or some of these Southern Senators whose last relevant act was trying to prevent integration. Like I said, the number of sorry politicians that pretty much stay in for life without term limits far outweigh the number of good politicians that get loss to term limits.

Of course, no matter how they're elected [[term limits, district or at large), doing a little bit of research on the candidates is going to be a lot more effective than what system is put in place.

[GOAT]

I have always thought that as a politican if you couldn't do what you wanted to do within 12 years of "serving" then you failed and you should be out anyway. 12 year terms limits seem fair imo.