Christian Fanatics Rioting again in Ireland

[barnesfoto]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010...ef=global-home

[Blarf]

Religious people bitching and causing violence?!?!?!?! Never.

[GOAT]

I'll bite.
It is because they [[Brit prots) are having yet ANOTHER parade that does nothing but inflame tensions. A fuckinig useless orangeman parade through areas that are predominently catholic.

Tell me should Vietnamese hold parades in the USA showboating about winning the Vietnam war? Let's go further back and have Koreans do the same? Even further back and let Brits and Canadians march through Washington to show what they did.

If the fucking Brits would leave, there wouldn't be an issue. They already tried to breed out the catholics when they shipped of the Scots and other English to Ireland so whynot just hold them down.

[ghettopalmetto]

I thought Sstashmoo taught us all on a separate thread that Catholics aren't Christian.

[Johnlodge]

I read the article, and GOAT's interpretation seems spot-on to me.

[maxx]

When I was doing research at the Philadelphia Public Library one summer day, I heard bagpipes. A small band of bagpipes marched down the middle of the street. It was a Saturday so the traffic was light. I was told later it was the Orangemen celebrating the Battle of Boyne. Unbelievable.

[Retroit]

Is this like the Christians rioting in Detroit in '67?

[rb336]

A lot of slaves in the US south had it better than the peasants of Ireland under their Brit masters. Imagine starving to death in Limerick during the famine and watching the land owners ship all the grain and meat produced on their land and by their toil to places like the US, Canada and England. The famine WAS genocide

[Patrick]

When Ireland's economy was strong, they were like brothers again but now the recession has it....they hate one another.

[Detroitej72]

I'll bite.
It is because they [[Brit prots) are having yet ANOTHER parade that does nothing but inflame tensions. A fuckinig useless orangeman parade through areas that are predominently catholic.

Tell me should Vietnamese hold parades in the USA showboating about winning the Vietnam war? Let's go further back and have Koreans do the same? Even further back and let Brits and Canadians march through Washington to show what they did.

If the fucking Brits would leave, there wouldn't be an issue. They already tried to breed out the catholics when they shipped of the Scots and other English to Ireland so whynot just hold them down.

I couldn't have said it better, Goat.

Get the f-ing Protestant Brits out and all will be well.

As Paul McCartney sang before, "Give Ireland back to the Irish!"

[barnesfoto]

so the problem is caused by illegal immigration?

[Detroitej72]

so the problem is caused by illegal immigration?

"giggle, giggle"...

Not to make fun of illegal immigration, but, yes, as England is practicing its a form of "illegal' immigration.

I'm sure now cons will have a field day with this!!!

[Gistok]

For those of you not quite up to snuff on why periodic clashes happen, watch PBS Channel 56-3 [[Create Channel) at 9PM tonight [[Thursday).

It's a "Rick Steves Europe" Northern Ireland travel show... and during the first 10 minutes it gives a SUPERB overview of the problems between the Catholic Irish and the Protestent Scotch-Irish of Northern Ireland. The main trouble makers are the orange Unionists [[radical Protestants) versus the green Republicans [[radical Catholics). It's when the Unionists have their provocative parades thru Catholic neighborhoods that trouble seems to start.

Most people in Northern Ireland are neither Unionists nor Republicans.... but merely Protestant or Catholic.

Also, kudos to Goat for a spot-on summary.

The show should illuminate those on this forum who are not up to speed on the history of "the troubles" [[as they are called by the Irish).

[1KielsonDrive]

I thought Sstashmoo taught us all on a separate thread that Catholics aren't Christian.

Yup. He sure did. I learned my lesson.

[gibran]

any time you have colonial rule you will have difficulty...[[Africa and the middle-east, India etc)/ anytime you have imposed rule or artificial rule by proxy governments you will have problem...anytime you have a homogeneous nationalist dream in a multi-cultural or heterogeneous society with out equality you have difficulty...anytime the need to justify your own views out stripes the need for equality for others you will have difficulty...and anytime you walk down the middle of the road in open contempt of others [[KKK) you will have difficulty...

[DetroitPole]

Okay, let us set the record straight:

These are not "Brit Protestants" in Northern Ireland. These are people who have lived there since before the inception of the United States and consider themselves IRISH.

Calling them "Brit Protestants" and telling them to go "home" is as absurd as referring to Protestant German Americans[[as an example) who have been in the United States since before its independence as "German Protestants" and telling them to go back to Germany. I'm sure most of the German Americans you know are about as Americanized as you can be.

That said, it is pretty difficult to justify an Orangeman Parade through predominantly Catholic areas.

Needless to say, the Catholic IRA has not been a force for peace.

Northern Ireland has consistently voted to remain part of the United Kingdom. Isn't that democracy?

Now, in referring them to Christian rioters:
We saw the same situation in Yugoslavia. Different nationalist groups embracing their historic religion as a form of national identity and to identify against the "other". You don't have to be a theologian to deduce that this conflict is not about religion. The Irish Catholic population wants to join the Republic of Ireland. The Protestant population wants to stay under the UK. They're not fighting about transubstantiation.

I'm a Catholic.

[GOAT]

N. Ireland votes to remain in the UK? Really? Well it's easy to do when the the deck of cards are stacked in your favour isn't it? Kind of like those Albanian Kosovars isn't it? Just outbreed the indigenous population and the land can become yours!

As for the former Yugoslavia [[Serbia is really just Serbia now), that civil war is about enthinicity and always had been. Until Tito took control and made everyone fearful of one regime. Once he died; within the decade, the civil war was on. The religious aspect you speak of was only used to divide the ethnicities even further, nothing more.

As for N. Ireland, as many of the people are Scot descendants, it still remains ethnic but now the use of religion has over-powered the use of ethnicity. Regardless, one fights for the freedom of living in their land BEFORE subjugation, the other fights to retain that hold on those lands that are being held.

[DetroitPole]

N. Ireland votes to remain in the UK? Really? Well it's easy to do when the the deck of cards are stacked in your favour isn't it? Kind of like those Albanian Kosovars isn't it? Just outbreed the indigenous population and the land can become yours!

As for the former Yugoslavia [[Serbia is really just Serbia now), that civil war is about enthinicity and always had been. Until Tito took control and made everyone fearful of one regime. Once he died; within the decade, the civil war was on. The religious aspect you speak of was only used to divide the ethnicities even further, nothing more.

As for N. Ireland, as many of the people are Scot descendants, it still remains ethnic but now the use of religion has over-powered the use of ethnicity. Regardless, one fights for the freedom of living in their land BEFORE subjugation, the other fights to retain that hold on those lands that are being held.

Okay, great.

So all non-Native American inhabitants of this continent should go back to where they came from to right things.

Maybe the Angles should go back to Germany, the Jutes back to Denmark, the Hungarians back to Asia.

[gibran]

it usually is not whose God is better or whose promised land that ends our Irish cousins in trouble it is whose policies regulates opportunities and equality... If people were treated equally who would care where they sit on Sunday as long as are they free on monday.

[1KielsonDrive]

When Ireland's economy was strong, they were like brothers again but now the recession has it....they hate one another.

I doubt they were ever like brothers again. They might've been a little less likely to kill each other, but hardly loving.

[Ray1936]

Hate to say this to this lively conversation, but I don't much give a shit about any of them so long as they stay off my lawn.

[Jman]

I agree with Ray.

[Gistok]

First of all Ray1936 lives in Las Vegas... so he doesn't have a lawn....

The Brits settled Scotch and English residents in Northern Ireland in the early 1600s. The city of Derry [[Northern Ireland's 2nd largest, and called Londonderry by the Unionists/Protestants) had to have city walls built around it because it was surrounded by native Irish clans living in the hills and valleys surrounding Derry, which were hostile to the new settlers.

Ironically the Brits seem to have been at fault in not only these troubles [[dating back centuries), but also in how they carved up the Middle East following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWI... causing decades of strife there as well [[Kurds, Palestinians & Israelis, etc).

And then there's the problems after the colonization of Africa, and creating of nation-states that often crossed ethnic borders, and have caused decades of tensions from Biafra [[in Nigeria) to Rwanda, Uganda, and the troubles of South Africa [[although the fault for many of these troubles is shared by other European countries).

[Detroitej72]

Ironically the Brits seem to have been at fault in not only these troubles [[dating back centuries), but also in how they carved up the Middle East following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWI... causing decades of strife there as well [[Kurds, Palestinians & Israelis, etc).

One needs to look no further than modern day Iraq, with Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds to see the effects of British meddling.

[GOAT]

I'm not taking your bait and switch tactic Detroitpole. Nice try.