Buying homes and land in Detroit,looking to create jobs,need advice

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 08:44 AM

I have never been to Detroit but from what I have seen there are some pretty run down neighborhoods.I am considering buying some land and or some homes in Detroit due to the low cost and high availability.My question is where should I buy?I would like to start up a plant nursery business or farm of some kind as well as renovate some homes for use as rental properties.I have $200,000.00 to spend on such projects and I hope that I might be able to create some long term jobs for the local residents.Any advice in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,Kate

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 09:06 AM

I might be willing to go as high as $500,000.00 if the buildings happen to have significant historical meaning to the city.

**sumas** · July-06-10, 09:20 AM

My best advice is visit Detroit first. Set up meetings with local non profits such as Greening of Detroit, GROW Wayne[[if they are still around), Detroit Garden Center, Georgia Street Community Gardens, Planning and development and of course check zoning regulations and tax issues. Visit area restaurants and stores to see if you have a market for produce. Talk to Eastern Market about stall space $ costs.

I love your vision and goals but you do sound a bit naive. Please do your homework and research well. I would hate to see you lose a nest egg to a pipe dream. I run a small garden landscape company and have two homes in Detroit, one a primary residence and the other I lease. Being a landlord sounds good but is a pain in the A;;. I do take great pride in knowing the neighbors of our rental property adore us because of our maintenance and great tennants.

**Danny** · July-06-10, 09:23 AM

Be careful there are still lots of real estate scoundels who sometimes refuse you to buy their Detroit lots to anyone. Most of those companies rather wait til the downsizing of various Detroit ghettohoods is complete. Then the gentrification will begin.

**sumas** · July-06-10, 09:28 AM

I took so long writting my first post that I missed your interest in historic buildings. Check out West Village and Islandview Village, both are Historic Districts and have vacant land available. The Caputian Monks and Gleaners have community gardens in these areas and could also be a good reference source.

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 09:32 AM

Unfortunatly I live in Utah at the moment and visiting Detroit personally will not be an option for at least another year.In the meantime I will be doing plenty of research as I am as naive as a new born kitten and I want to be sure that I do everything right the first time.I just have this feeling that Detroit could really be something special again if enough people believed in it and empowered the citizens.

Being a landlord is not something I look forward to at all but I want to be able to provide fairly priced and safe housing as a means to bring in an income that I can use to purchase more properties and continue to improve the neighborhood.Making money is not my main objective as this money I have set aside is money that I can afford to lose.I was left a substantial inheritance by my grandparents and I want to put it into a project that is worth while not just for myself but for a community and I see my chance to do good in Detroit.

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 09:36 AM

I do however worry about the slum neighborhoods and the high crime rate.I want to do good but I don't want to have any progress that I make destroyed or stolen the very next day and I certainly worry about violent crime because I happen to be a small white girl who has never lived in a town that has such problems like Detroit does.Not being familiar with the city will be my biggest obstacle to overcome and I sincerely hope that the local people will cooperate with me.

**ndavies** · July-06-10, 09:38 AM

I have to agree with Sumas. Don't invest here without doing some serious research. Detroit has some unique market conditions that make it unlike anywhere you have ever invested. It is ripe with opportunities to lose all your money.

You'll have a very hard time generating enough revenue to pay for your rehabed rentals. The city is awash with rentals. The rents received are very low.

Your nursery will also be in a very competetive Region. There a many regional nurseries struggling to get by. A city based nursery is going to struggle to pull the suburbanites it will need to survive. It will have the added burdens of city zoning, taxes and regulations.

Detroit real estate is cheap for a reason. Make sure you understand the reasons why.

**cman710** · July-06-10, 09:41 AM

papillonaquatique, I would highly recommend that you get in touch with the folks at the Georgia Street Community Garden, if for no other reason than to get a sense of what is required to begin and sustain a community project. Mark [[Cub, on the Forum) is a great guy and I am sure that he would be willing to speak with you. He has the beginnings of something promising going on, which may be able to serve as a model for you [[or be something to which you would like to contribute).

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Be careful there are still lots of real estate scoundels who sometimes refuse you to buy their Detroit lots to anyone. Most of those companies rather wait til the downsizing of various Detroit ghettohoods is complete. Then the gentrification will begin.

Real estate is one of the trickiest things that people can deal in and there are far too many liars.Fortunatly I am not in any particular rush and can afford to take my time in selecting what places and land to purchase.I would love to be able to turn a profit but I have a feeling that I would need to hold on to the properties for years to see that happen so that will likely be an issue for any children that I may have in the future.I also like to think that time is on my side as I am only 20 yrs old currently.Lots of time for the property values to rise but I would rather put aside any intent to make a profit and just focus on having fun learning to renovate homes and running a business all while helping the community rebound.

**fryar** · July-06-10, 09:43 AM

I'll second what sumas said above, and suggest that you contact the organizations mentioned for assistance in finding a suitable area. Maybe partner with them? If you can figure out a good way to do this, you can set up shop here for a good price and have your pick of some people with a really good work ethic. Also, kudos to you for thinking of doing this, all of Detroit is not the hellhole it is made out to be, the suburbs are pleasant, and due to economic factors, all of it is a real steal. The price is so good,in fact, that it should more than even out the potential losses, so to speak, from partnering with someone local.
As you can see in this thread, there are a number of areas in Detroit that are darn near abandoned, and so the land should be really quite cheap, although you may run into issues identifying who the current owner is or working with the city to abate any outstanding property taxes, so bring some patience. Also, if you go into a dilapidated area, you should know that there has been a lot of talk on here about organized cartels that very efficiently jump on abandoned or foreclosed homes in order to strip out the copper wiring for scrap - no, that's for real.
There has been a bit of talk about possibly "slimming" Detroit down to reflect the lower population and turning some of the land over to farming or what-have-you, so see if you can't proceed in a way that aligns with what those plans might be. I don't happen to know what they are, and they don't seem to be official at this stage, but my two cents are that the riverfront and a viable urban corridor along Woodward, Detroit's "main drag," are not up for discussion, along with pockets of good, vibrant neighborhoods.

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

I have to agree with Sumas. Don't invest here without doing some serious research. Detroit has some unique market conditions that make it unlike anywhere you have ever invested. It is ripe with opportunities to lose all your money.

You'll have a very hard time generating enough revenue to pay for your rehabed rentals. The city is awash with rentals. The rents received are very low.

Your nursery will also be in a very competetive Region. There a many regional nurseries struggling to get by. A city based nursery is going to struggle to pull the suburbanites it will need to survive. It will have the added burdens of city zoning, taxes and regulations.

Detroit real estate is cheap for a reason. Make sure you understand the reasons why.

Any profit from renting would just be put right back into buying more near by land or properties as well as additional renovation.I work part time at a successful nursery where I am now and although local sales are nice the majority of the business is selling to non local clients as we tend to deal with rare varieties of plants and flowers.Learning to deal with a different climate zone will likely be a challenge.So many things could go wrong but I fortunatly I run a translation service online that brings me in a good $2000 a month working from my home.Having that to fall back on is a blessing indeed.

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by cman710

papillonaquatique, I would highly recommend that you get in touch with the folks at the Georgia Street Community Garden, if for no other reason than to get a sense of what is required to begin and sustain a community project. Mark [[Cub, on the Forum) is a great guy and I am sure that he would be willing to speak with you. He has the beginnings of something promising going on, which may be able to serve as a model for you [[or be something to which you would like to contribute).

Working with the community will be at the heart of my investment.People tend to want to protect and nurture what they have their own interest vested in.I will seek out some other community project models and hopefully come up with a solid plan and back up plan.

**fryar** · July-06-10, 09:54 AM

With your translation business, if you want to, you could consider moving here for a while prior to setting up shop. As was mentioned above, rents here are pretty low, so you could get by on your translation business income, moreso if you were able to make that a full-time thing. We have a number of threads on this board in which people asking where to move in Detroit are advised to move either downtown or to midtown because of safety and the like, including one fairly recent thread here.

**fryar** · July-06-10, 09:59 AM

Yes, work with the community. If you believe your background may be, in various ways, quite different from that of a native Detroiter, working with/through locals would be a good way to make sure you're getting good tenants. That's what I would do if I had money to invest in Detroit real estate - frankly, I might have to make do with government subsidized rental income, which is probably not the highest, and I wouldn't necessarily have the experience to identify which tenant is a good prospect, but I'm guessing some local church groups would be able to help with that, especially if they got a community center or something out of it, though there could be an issue there if a potential tenant felt discriminated against for religious reasons. But my point is that working with locals is not at all a bad idea, since they know the lay of the land and the ways of the locals, so to speak.

**fryar** · July-06-10, 10:01 AM

Oh, btw, what do you translate? How did you get into that?
Edit: Oh, duh, I'm guessing English <-> French?

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by fryar

I'll second what sumas said above, and suggest that you contact the organizations mentioned for assistance in finding a suitable area. Maybe partner with them? If you can figure out a good way to do this, you can set up shop here for a good price and have your pick of some people with a really good work ethic. Also, kudos to you for thinking of doing this, all of Detroit is not the hellhole it is made out to be, the suburbs are pleasant, and due to economic factors, all of it is a real steal. The price is so good,in fact, that it should more than even out the potential losses, so to speak, from partnering with someone local.
As you can see in this thread, there are a number of areas in Detroit that are darn near abandoned, and so the land should be really quite cheap, although you may run into issues identifying who the current owner is or working with the city to abate any outstanding property taxes, so bring some patience. Also, if you go into a dilapidated area, you should know that there has been a lot of talk on here about organized cartels that very efficiently jump on abandoned or foreclosed homes in order to strip out the copper wiring for scrap - no, that's for real.
There has been a bit of talk about possibly "slimming" Detroit down to reflect the lower population and turning some of the land over to farming or what-have-you, so see if you can't proceed in a way that aligns with what those plans might be. I don't happen to know what they are, and they don't seem to be official at this stage, but my two cents are that the riverfront and a viable urban corridor along Woodward, Detroit's "main drag," are not up for discussion, along with pockets of good, vibrant neighborhoods.

I have seen people steal the copper from homes and leave things in the most terrible state of disrepair I have ever seen.Replacing the wiring in the homes and getting them proper AC and heating is the first things I will do to any properties that is for certain.Followed by security systems and hired patrol guards if the need arises.I used to live in Florida so I have seen some of the kinds of things that happen.You can't feel safe in a place that that nor can you call it home and I want to change that.Especially for the children.

If I am unable to start a nursery I am considering running a produce farm as an alternative route.I would need to find places to sell the produce to make money to pay off the workers to keep things cost neutral however.Any food that is left over would be donated to charity.

Is the land by the riverfront still available for sale?I would that that land would have the most potential future value and as such I would be quite interested in it at least just to have a portion of it for future development or an office space.

Detroit has its bad parts just like any other city but if there were jobs available and people had a reason to take some good old fashioned American pride in a project then I believe that they would make the most of such an opportunity.Never let it be said that people from Detroit are unwilling to work.It was their spirit that lead to a great economic boom.

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by fryar

Yes, work with the community. If you believe your background may be, in various ways, quite different from that of a native Detroiter, working with/through locals would be a good way to make sure you're getting good tenants. That's what I would do if I had money to invest in Detroit real estate - frankly, I might have to make do with government subsidized rental income, which is probably not the highest, and I wouldn't necessarily have the experience to identify which tenant is a good prospect, but I'm guessing some local church groups would be able to help with that, especially if they got a community center or something out of it, though there could be an issue there if a potential tenant felt discriminated against for religious reasons. But my point is that working with locals is not at all a bad idea, since they know the lay of the land and the ways of the locals, so to speak.

I translate Japanese,Korean,Russian,Arabic and Chinese.I found out at a young age that I had a natural ability to learn languages and I spent years teaching myself and taking classes.Right now there is a major demand for translation in those languages so I am making a decent wage while I pay my way though school.I might well consider quitting my nursery part time job and start translating full time.I only took the nursery job because I have an interest in native plant species.I could easily afford to live in Detroit but I am not a tough person and moving into such a town would be a a huge step to take since I would be alone.

I think that contacting local churches would be a great idea to find tennants.I do not have a discriminatory bone in my body and I do not mind people of other faiths at all as my family is very diversive when it comes to religions and I myself happen to be LDS which is not really popular in other parts of the US.

Building a community center sounds like a really good idea because it would attract good people who are trying to make a better life for themselves and it is those very people that I am trying to attract.I would even consider paying to give on the job training to those who do not have the skill set currently to renovate homes or to work on a farm.It would give people who would not otherwise have that kind of opportunity a chance to learn and earn a higher wage which is part of my plan.Plus if they turn out to be reliable I can contact them for more work in the future.Establishing a good reputation in the community is also important.If the neighbors care for my cause then I will have a much higher chance to succeed.

**cman710** · July-06-10, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by papillonaquatique

Building a community center sounds like a really good idea because it would attract good people who are trying to make a better life for themselves and it is those very people that I am trying to attract.I would even consider paying to give on the job training to those who do not have the skill set currently to renovate homes or to work on a farm.It would give people who would not otherwise have that kind of opportunity a chance to learn and earn a higher wage which is part of my plan.Plus if they turn out to be reliable I can contact them for more work in the future.Establishing a good reputation in the community is also important.If the neighbors care for my cause then I will have a much higher chance to succeed.

Yes, you have the right instinct. It will be much easier for you to find success working through current community organizations than by coming in, putting yourself down in some neighborhood you have no connections to, and trying that way. Once you are able, I would suggest that you come out here for several weeks and set up meetings with as many people as you can. Given your resources, I am sure there will be many people interesting in helping you [[in the hope of getting some funding, of course). That is not a bad thing, but you will have to be careful, and I would suggest that when it comes down to in person meetings, that you keep the extent of your resources on the down low.

Also, you may have this taken care of, but if you want to make sure you have the money for this project, make sure that you are keeping the money in a safe investment.

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by cman710

Yes, you have the right instinct. It will be much easier for you to find success working through current community organizations than by coming in, putting yourself down in some neighborhood you have no connections to, and trying that way. Once you are able, I would suggest that you come out here for several weeks and set up meetings with as many people as you can. Given your resources, I am sure there will be many people interesting in helping you [[in the hope of getting some funding, of course). That is not a bad thing, but you will have to be careful, and I would suggest that when it comes down to in person meetings, that you keep the extent of your resources on the down low.

Also, you may have this taken care of, but if you want to make sure you have the money for this project, make sure that you are keeping the money in a safe investment.

Oh my money is in a very safe investment.It started off with US gold coins.I learned the hobby as a child from my grandmother and I convinced my grandparents to buy certain ones back in 2000 right before gold started to rise.They figured since they were so old and that their initial investment of almost a million dollars would be enough for me that the steady price of gold would ensure that I saw all of that money.They turned their nest egg into a fortune that they left to me.I then took the coins and sold them and now I have the $500,000.00 in the bank and another $ 1,500,000.00 in a balanced stock portfolio so that it can continue to grow.

Working with local people is a great idea but I worry that people might take advantage of an inexperienced lily white chick from the south.Under no circumstances would I ever let anyone know how much money I have or that I was alone.That would be a recipe for disaster!

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 10:54 AM

Should I start off by buying a single house and land for a farm first and then expand by buying up the land and properties directly next to me?I wonder what the best method of execution would be in this instance.If I were to start a produce farm I might not have any crops for several years,especially if I need to plant fruit trees or prepare the soil.I suppose in the mean time I could start renovation of near by adjacent homes and set them up as rental properties as a means of income.I wonder how much the average home would cost to buy and renovate up to code conditions and for such properties what would be a reasonable price to rent them out for.There is alot of things that I need to figure out.

**Downtown Lady** · July-06-10, 11:01 AM

I smell a CPer.

**papillonaquatique** · July-06-10, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Downtown Lady

I smell a CPer.

CPer?What does that stand for?

**Novine** · July-06-10, 11:17 AM

If you want a reason to move to the area, check to see if Mango Languages is hiring. They're based in Farmington Hills. Crains did a story about them back in March.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article.../C02/303149991

Retroit · July-06-10, 11:19 AM

I don't think you are cut out for this.

Exhibit 1: "I am not a tough person"

Exhibit 2: "I worry that people might take advantage of an inexperienced lily white chick from the south."

Trust your instinct.