What we can expect after Jan 1, 2011 ?

[oladub]

Remember presidential candidate George H. W. Bush promise?
"Read my lips: no new taxes"

"Bush eventually agreed to a compromise with Congressional Democrats to raise several taxes as part of a 1990 budget agreement. Although technically there were no new taxes in this agreement, Bush in the same speech also ruled out raising existing taxes. Democratic nominee Bill Clinton... pointed to the quotation as evidence of Bush's untrustworthiness, which contributed to Bush's losing his bid for re-election." -wikipedia

"I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." - Barack Obama

Setting aside the issue of postponed taxes, just because Bush the Elder lied doesn't mean that president Obama will lie as some of you very cynical people are suggesting.

[313WX]

Those were some pretty nasty deficits that Bush left us.

Bush Deficit vs Obama Deficit

That looks more like political spin to me.

I could have swore Bush's $700 Billion Dollar Bailout wasn't factored into the '08 fiscal year, but maybe I have it all wrong.

In any event, Bush did create at least 2/3 of that deficit alone. Obama's deficit pretty much consists of the stimulus bailout [[which was frozen after roughly $500 billion was spent), excluding of course any spending towards Bush's questionably legal wars.

[oladub]

That looks more like political spin to me.

I could have swore Bush's $700 Billion Dollar Bailout wasn't factored into the '08 fiscal year, but maybe I have it all wrong.

In any event, Bush did create at least 2/3 of that deficit alone. Obama's deficit pretty much consists of the stimulus bailout [[which was frozen after roughly $500 billion was spent), excluding of course any spending towards Bush's questionably legal wars.

It appears to be spin from the White House and the OMB. In any event, Senator and President Obama always supported the funding of these unconstitutional wars and they have been his for a year and a half. If I was going to try to cover for President Obama, I would mention that when the economy slows, so does government revenue. Bush got into some of these messes and Obama has failed to get us out.

Affixing blame is difficult. Here are a few articles about dicrepencies such as $2.3T missing from the DOD and $3.3T missing from the Treasury. Transparancy is sometimes difficult to come by in the Capitol. http://solari.com/archive/missing_money/

"According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible."
- Remarks as Delivered by Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, The Pentagon, Monday, September 10, 2001

If President Obama could track down some of these national treasures, he won't have to break his pledge. From the dates on these articles, most occurred under Bush.

[DetroitDad]

I think you are going to an extreme, but it's common knowledge that tax increases and service cuts are often the eventual result of a deficit this high. It is not inevitable, but is highly likely.

[mjs]

That looks more like political spin to me.

I could have swore Bush's $700 Billion Dollar Bailout wasn't factored into the '08 fiscal year, but maybe I have it all wrong.

In any event, Bush did create at least 2/3 of that deficit alone. Obama's deficit pretty much consists of the stimulus bailout [[which was frozen after roughly $500 billion was spent), excluding of course any spending towards Bush's questionably legal wars.

Wow! That starts with talking about political spin!

The bailout was a Democrat idea, hated by the Republicans other than Bush. Conservatives believe in survival of the fittest and the bailouts are subsidizing of the weakest. Most irresponsibility encouraging piss away of government money ever until someone came along and thought we could reduce health care costs by increasing taxes rather than decreasing the causes of the costs.

As for the intelligence of Obama's supercharged tax and spend to get us out of the second great depression, did you see how the home buyer's tax credit turned out to just be a short term give away rather than anything close to a stimulus? May saw a 33% drop to the lowest sales record ever. Government programs didn't work for Roosevelt, it has never worked for our government, and it will not work for Obama. Maybe he'll get lucky like FDR and appease our enemies into a massive war that fixes all of this. The whole rest of the world has realized that a economic recovery requires improved economic efficiency and government spending is grossly less efficient than private spending. If private interests can't spend because government is taking it all for their inefficient spending, we will stay in trouble. Let American business's that produce things keep their money so they can invent our way out of this mess rather than welfare needing bankers and beuracrats that shuffle papers for a living.

[ghettopalmetto]

Government programs didn't work for Roosevelt, it has never worked for our government, and it will not work for Obama. Maybe he'll get lucky like FDR and appease our enemies into a massive war that fixes all of this. The whole rest of the world has realized that a economic recovery requires improved economic efficiency and government spending is grossly less efficient than private spending.

Please tell us why repeating 1938 is a good idea.

You're just repeating the same tired, reckless, right-wing platitudes that have no grounding in fact.

[gibran]

newsflash ...wars don't fix economies anymore...in fact it has cost us...I am still waiting for Iraq to pay for this project....and the flowers at our feet...thank you neocons for destroying our financial stability to protect your new world order...

on this fourth God Bless Our Troops...but prosecute the neocons....

[oladub]

Please tell us why repeating 1938 is a good idea.

You're just repeating the same tired, reckless, right-wing platitudes that have no grounding in fact.

from: Why the Greater Depression Still Lies Ahead
"The cause of the Great Depression in the 1930's and the Great Recession beginning in 2007 was an overleveraged economy. An overleveraged economy is the direct result of artificially-provided low interest rates from the central bank and superfluous lending on the part of commercial banks. That easy money provided by banks eventually brings debt levels in the economy to an unsustainable level. At that point, the only real and viable solution is for the public and private sector to undergo a protracted period of deleveraging. The ensuing depression is, in actuality, the healing process at work, which is marked by the selling of assets and the paying down of debt.

However, all efforts on the part of our politicians today are to fight the natural healing process and to promote the accumulation of more debt. During this latest economic contraction, the Fed took interest rates to near zero percent and the administration is leveraging up the public sector to record levels in order to re-leverage the private sector. The government's philosophy is tantamount to sticking a frost bitten man in the freezer so he won't have to suffer the pain associated with thawing off his extremities."


So what does President Obama do? He gave even more powers to the privately held Federal Reserve, which caused much of the overleveraging, to control more of the economy. This will probably work as well as hiring the fox to guard the henhouse and be a redux of the Hoover/Roosevelt non-solutions for the Great Depression. Don't believe everything your ninth grade social studies teacher read you out of a government textbook about how great Roosevelt was. Americans suffered for a decade under Roosevelt's policies such as printing money to pay farmers to destroy crops and then organizing soup kitchens for those who could no longer afford food.

[Papasito]

Lets tax small business owners more so they can send more money to the Government to waste, and not hire your neighbor who has been unemployed for the last 7 months. That should get America moving again.

[Zacha341]

Precisely! And taxes will go up and up over-all to feed the current government expansion [[which is otherwise unsustainable). And more small and mid-sized business employ that what is considered... and they are struggling and will respond by hiring less and raising prices for their goods and services.

Lets tax small business owners more so they can send more money to the Government to waste, and not hire your neighbor who has been unemployed for the last 7 months. That should get America moving again.

[Thomcat52]

U.S. News gets it. The expiring tax cuts at the end of the year = taxes go up for everybody. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/8-Prob...65513.html?x=0

When the tax cuts expire, Arnott says, that will be equivalent to a 2 percent jump in taxes as a percentage of GDP

[Papasito]

[[which is otherwise unsustainable).

Considering the Government runs out of tax money collected by March or April annually, the Government is unsustainable with or without these tax hikes. The problem is that our Government is improperly structured, not that the people are improperly taxed. They can tax our pants off and they still can't cover thier expenses. Raising taxes is a mute point until they fix the real problem.

[Stosh]

Oladub thinks there's another depression ahead, and all he and his buddies think about is shrinking government and cutting the social backup programs in this country. All the phony facts and figures in the world won't cover up the fact that this would be the case. Anyone that promotes this agenda isn't thinking clearly.

[ghettopalmetto]

Oladub thinks there's another depression ahead, and all he and his buddies think about is shrinking government and cutting the social backup programs in this country. All the phony facts and figures in the world won't cover up the fact that this would be the case. Anyone that promotes this agenda isn't thinking clearly.

It's 1937 all over again.

[Stosh]

It's 1937 all over again.

I think it's the dark ages all over again.

[Papasito]

In order for the USA to give up its' borders and accept NATO/International law and become part of the new world order, we must go completely bankrupt and transform into a 3rd world country. It does not seem so far off as the notion may have seemed 5 or 10 years ago.

[Detroitej72]

Oladub thinks there's another depression ahead, and all he and his buddies think about is shrinking government and cutting the social backup programs in this country. All the phony facts and figures in the world won't cover up the fact that this would be the case. Anyone that promotes this agenda isn't thinking clearly.

It's always funny when cons like them blame all the ills on social programs.

Newsflash: social programs make up less than 30% of government spending. Yet if you listen to how the right wing propaganda machine spins it, you'd think it was 90% of the budget. This is done by design so as to keep the sheep in line and focused on being angry at the poor while they continue to bleed us taxpayers to fund their new world order, which includes controlling the world's oil supply.

[Detroitej72]

In order for the USA to give up its' borders and accept NATO/International law and become part of the new world order, we must go completely bankrupt and transform into a 3rd world country. It does not seem so far off as the notion may have seemed 5 or 10 years ago.

Thank you, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz and the rest of the neo-con oligarchy.

[ghettopalmetto]

In order for the USA to give up its' borders and accept NATO/International law and become part of the new world order, we must go completely bankrupt and transform into a 3rd world country. It does not seem so far off as the notion may have seemed 5 or 10 years ago.

Uhhhh, what?

[Papasito]

Thank you, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz and the rest of the neo-con oligarchy.

AND Clinton AND Bush I AND Obama.
Until the American people wake up and stop pretending it is Left versus Right, and realize that all these politicians are in it together, we will continue to live in a nation with the wool drawn over our eyes. A divided people are easier to control.

Uhhhh, what?

It's the progressive dream for the world. No borders, global government, financial equality for all peoples. The USA must be knocked down to the level of the rest of the world for it to work.

[Stosh]

AND Clinton AND Bush I AND Obama.
Until the American people wake up and stop pretending it is Left versus Right, and realize that all these politicians are in it together, we will continue to live in a nation with the wool drawn over our eyes. A divided people are easier to control.

Sure they are, divided. But the whole problem is, that they are divided not by idelogy, but by raging stupidity. Believing everything posted on the internet is no way to live your life, Steelers.

[ghettopalmetto]

It's the progressive dream for the world. No borders, global government, financial equality for all peoples. The USA must be knocked down to the level of the rest of the world for it to work.

And who told you this? And what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

Oh wait, I forgot. We're "The Greatest Country in the World! [[TM)". You know, with identical Walmarts full of Chinese products in every town, rotted cities that look like World War II was fought *here*, decaying infrastructure, abysmal educational system, insane levels of gun violence not seen outside Africa and the Middle East, and infantile dependence on petroleum. Yeah, we rock.

Are you sure you don't mean that we'd have to RAISE UP the United States to the level of the civilized world?

[Papasito]

Are you sure you don't mean that we'd have to RAISE UP the United States to the level of the civilized world?

The rest of the world still [[and many policians here at home) still see the US as gluttons and consumers of most of the world's resources. If we spiral down out of control, most of the world would kick us on the way down.

Sure they are, divided.

I was referring to the people, not the politicians. They want us pointing at each other and arguing left versus right, while looking past the fact that they are all putting the screws to us together.

[Detroitej72]

I was referring to the people, not the politicians. They want us pointing at each other and arguing left versus right, while looking past the fact that they are all putting the screws to us together.

That is all too true. Every election cycle, they divide us with hot button issues like abortion, flag burning and gay marriage. Issues that are, for the most part important to small groups, not the population as a whole. They do this because it rallies the troops, and gets them to the polls. Every notice none of them ever get resolved, yet they are trotted out, year after year to divide and conquer this nation.

[Stosh]

The rest of the world still [[and many policians here at home) still see the US as gluttons and consumers of most of the world's resources. If we spiral down out of control, most of the world would kick us on the way down.

I was referring to the people, not the politicians. They want us pointing at each other and arguing left versus right, while looking past the fact that they are all putting the screws to us together.

I was referring to the people too. Stupid as the day is long. There's profit in division, and the only reason they can play that game is the general stupidity and lack of intellectual curiosity of the majority of the American Public. There's never going to be a stop to this, unless there's a push to stop the incessant lies coming through the internet. Once that is fixed, then there may be a chance to repair the country.

However, there's profit in lying on the internet and on the airwaves.
Just ask Rush or Beck, they'll tell you.

Anyone that can believe in the premise of the original post and just throw it out there for discussion without verification is challenged in more than one way.