Detroit freeway ramp lights

[dtowncitylover]

I see these lights quite a bit in Chicago on their expressway on-ramps. I vaguely remember that there might have been one from Mack onto the Chrysler or it's a figment of my imagination...

Does anyone else actually remember such lights during the days of heavier traffic? Are there any lights left, working or otherwise?

[Detroitnerd]

If I remember right, the one one the entrance ramp to I-94 off Trumbull used to work in the early 1980s.

[Gary]

There was one at the Chicago Blvd. entrance ramp to the northbound Lodge.

[Homer]

I also remember almost no one paid much attention to them, or better put completely ignored them.

[dtowncitylover]

I looked at Google Maps [[and as recent as that is), there is still a sign saying "Stop here on Red" on the Trumbull ramp to the WB Ford Fwy, but no actual light.

[donpablo]

That one at Trumbull worked in the early nineties as well. I remember no one stopping at it but I used to regularly stop at it.

[Meddle]

I blew by them whenever I could. I was amazed they wanted you to something so incredibly dangerous as stopping on a freeway ramp.

They were all over the place on the Lodge. Thankfully I Never had to use the Lodge much. Jefferies was better for me.

[Gistok]

I remember them from circa 1990-95 [[I may be off by the dates here).

They had them all along I-94 [[can't speak for the other freeways). The goal of these was so that a caravan of say... 5 or more cars that all want to enter the freeway all at once in a continuous stream... well it prevented them from causing slowing down of drivers ON the freeway. Since they were at the top of the ramp, they really didn't impede the speed folks were entering the freeway at.

I thought it made sense, with the unfortunate possible consequence [[during rush hour) of having backup onto the ancilliary streets feeding the freeways. But then if you don't have compliance with obeying the red and green lights at the top of the ramp [[not to mention that you were not likely to get a ticket for the offense) ... then the whole process was doomed to failure...

[FerndaleDamon]

There used to be a few on the eastside, along 94. The one @ Mt Eliott comes to mind. I think they were put in to compensate for the short on ramps when the expressways were built in the '50s. Looks like they took them out. I don't see 'em anymore. People ignored 'em, anyway.

[EastsideAl]

They put them in along the Ford in the mid-80s but eventually turned them off and took many, if not all, of them out after about 10 years. They were some wizard traffic engineers big idea, but no one paid much attention to them after the first few months.

I never understood the need for them at all, because people in this area [[well, most people anyway) understand how to merge into freeway traffic and had been doing so successfully at those same entrances for many years before those lights were installed. Similarly, if one was driving on the freeway and wanted to avoid slower merging traffic there was a very simple solution: move into the center lane.

I think most experienced Detroit drivers felt that, like Meddle said, rather than solving a problem the lights actually created a potentially dangerous situation by stopping you on a freeway ramp just at the point where you would normally be speeding up to make the merge.

[LodgeDodger]

I blew by them whenever I could. I was amazed they wanted you to something so incredibly dangerous as stopping on a freeway ramp.

They were all over the place on the Lodge. Thankfully I Never had to use the Lodge much. Jefferies was better for me.

Racist.

............

[EMG]

I see these lights quite a bit in Chicago on their expressway on-ramps. I vaguely remember that there might have been one from Mack onto the Chrysler or it's a figment of my imagination...

Does anyone else actually remember such lights during the days of heavier traffic? Are there any lights left, working or otherwise?

I remember such lights on I-94 on the east side as of the time I left Michigan almost a decade ago.

Here in Phoenix/Scottsdale we have them on a lot of our freeway ramps. They're only turned on during rush hour, but they do cause backups on the ramps at times. One thing that does help is that most metered ramps are two lanes, with two separate lights, so the ramps can hold twice as many cars. The light flashes green for a driver in the right hand lane, then for the driver in the left hand lane, so that drivers in the lanes take turns proceding.

Many busy Arizona surface streets also have dual left turn lanes. That took some getting used to when I encountered them for the first time!

[DetroitPlanner]

Ramp metering is a way to control traffic in heavy traffic corridors with little if any merge/weave areas during peak hour. This was typical among early freeways of which Detroit has a lot. It is not a perfect solution as mentioned, it is usually ignored. The idea is to time the lights so that traffic at the end of the ramp is staged to merge easier. Often times when freeways have major rehab work, much is done to the ramp areas to extend the end of the ramps to give a bit of merge room. Over time this has led to the need for fewer meters.

Car technologies have changed too. This has also eliminated the need for the ramp meters. Remember it was not all that long ago when cars were much slower than they are now. You never wanted to be stuck behind a van or a Suburban at a light back then because you knew it was not going to have the power to take off. I remember having a Plymouth Horizon that seemed remarkably fast because it had a 95 horsepower engine! The only cars that screamed were hot rods and pony cars. My car today has more than twice that and it is a lowly Sable.

[CLAUDE G]

I remember the Ramp lights on Connor, and on Cadiuex along I-94. I remember then as early as 1986, and then they where shut down for many years and I think where finally removed around 1999.

I also remember the phone booths they had setup on 1-94 every 1/2 mile or so, so you could call for help if you break down. You can still see the cement pads where they once stood today...

But I think they where simply too dangerous, as I prefer to be doing about 50 or 60 down the enterance ramp so when I merge with traffic I don't get rear ended.

[Meddle]

But I think they where simply too dangerous, as I prefer to be doing about 50 or 60 down the enterance ramp so when I merge with traffic I don't get rear ended.

The problem there was too many people would run up to 50 or more without looking ahead to judge the speed of freeway traffic, then have to slow down quickly if the flow was only around 40.

The key was to always watch freeway traffic and adjust your ramp speed to merge in smoothly.

[Onthe405]

As DetroitPlanner mentioned, they are hardly a panacea for severe congestion. However, they can be a particularly helpful tool during the shoulder hours of early AM [[delaying) and evening [[prevent prolonging) of rush hour. By regulating the spacing of merging traffic, which is always in the right lane, it facilitates absorbing of “newcomers” so the through traffic can maintain an uninterrupted, constant speed. Cities with carpool lanes frequently have two-lane onramps and the HOV lane doesn’t have to stop. As Damon stated, most 50s era urban freeways [[as is the case in most of the city of Detroit) weren’t designed with long enough onramps for them to work as intended.

Freeway congestion customarily spreads from right to left as the overwhelming pace of merging traffic from the entrance ramps forces drivers in the right lane to slow down and brake. In an attempt to avoid the merging traffic, drivers in the right lane merge into the next left lane, which causes drivers in that lane to slow down & brake, and so on. Of course, once peak traffic becomes completely gridlocked, a freeway loses much of its intended purpose and functionality, and all of the tools in the arsenal become ineffective

For those who appear to take pride in blowing through the red lights, this is basically the equivalent of the person who crowds to get on the subway as soon as the doors open, rather than deferring to the departing passengers first. Observing ramp meters is a basic “courtesy rule of the road” that contributes to the effort to make the freeway system work more efficiently. It also indicates lax penalties and enforcement. A red light is a red light, whether it’s an intersection or at the end of a ramp.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

they have them in new zealand and they work in terms of people following them, however they definitely do not clear the congestion on their streets.

The rule is on green one car at a time and there's a seperate lane for cars with more than 3 passengers or trucks which has a faster light [[green to red) change than the other lane....people follow it, but its impact is little to nothing

[EastsideAl]

For those who appear to take pride in blowing through the red lights, this is basically the equivalent of the person who crowds to get on the subway as soon as the doors open, rather than deferring to the departing passengers first. Observing ramp meters is a basic “courtesy rule of the road” that contributes to the effort to make the freeway system work more efficiently. It also indicates lax penalties and enforcement. A red light is a red light, whether it’s an intersection or at the end of a ramp.

The problem here was that people in Detroit had been getting on the freeway just fine for more than 30 years before these lights were put in. And it wasn't as if freeway traffic congestion around here was increasing at that point, indeed if anything there was less traffic than there had been in years past.

The biggest problem was that the lights were placed in such a way that you basically had to go from 0 to 50mph in less than half the space you had done so previously. This meant that if you stopped for the ramp light you were often entering the freeway going significantly slower than the oncoming traffic and quickly running out of entrance lane, which left you with two choices, either push your way onto the freeway anyway forcing others to brake or stop at the end of the entrance lane and wait for a break in traffic. In other words, the lights often worked out for drivers exactly opposite to the way they had been advertised. They actually created congestion and made entering the freeway more difficult.

In addition, since the ramp lights were placed only in certain spots in the city, people who stopped for them ran the very serious risk of being hit hard from behind by people who were entering the freeway 'normally' not even thinking that someone would have put a light there. Especially since we had all been taught around here from childhood that the one thing you don't ever do if you can help it is stop on a freeway entrance ramp.

After a short while Detroiters just made the simple calculation that the risk of stopping for the lights, which seemed to most of us a pretty clueless attempt to 'solve' a problem that didn't need solving, far outweighed any possible rewards and/or penalties.

[Onthe405]

Al, I totally agree this was a poorly conceived idea for the urban freeways of Detroit. As I previously stated, the ramps are not long enough for them to be effective for their intended purpose [[actually a hinderence), nor is there enough of a congestion problem to warrant them.

In other states, they are generally placed more carefully & selectively at on-ramps that meet specific criteria. Good traffic engineering is only effective when the applicable circumstances are considered. The previously posted protocol comment regarding ignoring the meters was simply a cautionary one for travelers. What flies as acceptable behavior in Detroit does not always apply to the rest of the country. Try the same thing in Los Angeles or the Bay Area, and the CHiP won't hesitate to write a $210 ticket + points. Freeway etiquette courses through the veins of urban Californians just as subway etiquette does for New Yorkers.