Size of City of Detroit's work force...

[Al Publican]

What is the size of the CoD's workforce, and how much of it has been reduced since Dave Bing became mayor?

I'm told by a member of the Detroit Fire Dept that battalion chiefs received sizeable pay raises this year? Are cops and firefighters in Detroit receiving pay raises in the midst of the city's economic woes?

[Detroitnerd]

You mean the government of the city of Detroit, not employment statistics for within Detroit proper?

[RO_Resident]

There were 13,387 positions in Bing's proposed budget for FY 10-11.

This chart shows the city's trend in the number of positions budgeted.

[Al Publican]

Detroitnerd, "CoD" is short for the governmental entity as seen in some city government bulletins and forms.

About two years ago the LA Times ran a piece comparing LA's public employee workforce to other big cities. I was surprised to see that Detroit had a higher public employee to citizen ratio than that of LA. What was CoD's workforce two to four years ago?

[fryar]

According to the chart linked to by RO_Resident, it has hovered at 15,XXX for the past 4 years or so, so that's probably what it was at the time of the LA Times article. For purposes of ballparking, if we accept a figure of 900,000 residents, that's 900/15 = 60, so one city employee per maybe 50-60 city residents. I have no idea what that figure looks like for other cities. It does seem higher than necessary, but a smaller figure has been proposed for 2010-11.

If people are going to start comparing this ratio with that of other cities - and that could certainly be insightful - I do want to put forward the idea that Detroit does have a lot of neighborhoods with very low density, and so would have to employ more people per resident than other cities in order to administer the area.

[bailey]

According to the chart linked to by RO_Resident, it has hovered at 15,XXX for the past 4 years or so, so that's probably what it was at the time of the LA Times article. For purposes of ballparking, if we accept a figure of 900,000 residents, that's 900/15 = 60, so one city employee per maybe 50-60 city residents. I have no idea what that figure looks like for other cities. It does seem higher than necessary, but a smaller figure has been proposed for 2010-11.

If people are going to start comparing this ratio with that of other cities - and that could certainly be insightful - I do want to put forward the idea that Detroit does have a lot of neighborhoods with very low density, and so would have to employ more people per resident than other cities in order to administer the area.

...which is exactly the reason there is so much discussion about downsizing the city itself.

[fryar]

Yep. And why I'm all for it. What is in place now really doesn't seem sustainable.

[Detroitnerd]

...which is exactly the reason there is so much discussion about downsizing the city itself.

The main reason, IMO, is that the decision-makers have no vision for the city whatsoever. They believe people will go on happily living in places like Farmington Hills and Troy and Clinton Township until the end of time.

Any other metro in the United States would jump at the chance to have an intact urban core ready for redevelopment. But ... Detroit is different.

[fryar]

Yeah, I'm with you on that. The not-so-new trend of people rediscovering the pleasures and stimulation of living in a city has not really hit SE Mich yet, at least as of 2 years ago. Royal Oak, and some other places, have cutesied up their walkable downtowns - which some people also like, FWIW - but none of the suburbs can hope to offer the diversity of options that potentially could exist in a dense, walkable corridor up Woodward from Hart Plaza out to Midtown. The trouble is just getting that ball rolling in the face of nonsensical obstacles, as discussed on this board. Meanwhile, the "brain drain" continues, and not only because of economic reasons.
The only advantage I see for me in this paradigm is that if I come back, I'll be way out ahead of the gentrification curve that would ultimately price my faux-bohemian though non-posh-hipster tuckus out. That, and the potential irony of the day, way off in the future, when erstwhile farmland is converted to suburban-style developments. Within the borders of a revitalized Detroit. At which time Danny's theory will have come full circle. :-P

[kraig]

At one point, the employee rate was around 11,900 for the fiscal year 2009-10. If it's 13,000 now that would mean that city government has grown within the past year.

As far as an attractive urban core goes, it comes down to balance. New York, Chicago, LA, etc. all have the same problems that Detroit has. The big difference is that Detroit does not match up from the positives standpoint. One of the things that Detroit should focus on is developing more after work and school activities. People in Detroit work hard, they need to be able to play hard to.

Instead of maligning the Dateline type of stories, we should look at the City from the perspective of an out-of towner. If your visiting Detroit today, Tuesday the 29th, and you're staying at the Marriott. What is there for you to do? When most of us are out of town. We eat, shop, and take in some form of entertainment. But here, tonight. What would you do?

[stromberg2]

I'd probably just get hammered at one of the many bars downtown and stumble back to the Marriott.

Stromberg2

[fryar]

One of the things that Detroit should focus on is developing more after work and school activities. [[...)
Instead of maligning the Dateline type of stories, we should look at the City from the perspective of an out-of towner. If your visiting Detroit today, Tuesday the 29th, and you're staying at the Marriott. What is there for you to do? When most of us are out of town. We eat, shop, and take in some form of entertainment. But here, tonight. What would you do?

I agree with you as well [[my I'm agreeable today).

As regards to the out of towner at the Marriott or, worse yet, the downtown Holiday Inn Express, I think they may not realize what their options are. Coming in from NYC 5 years ago, I can tell you I had no clue whatsoever what to make of the surface lots and shuttered buildings in what was clearly the center of the region - other than that folks around here obviously maxed out the whole car thing, and kind of wrecked the place in the process. There's definitely an initial impression that needs to be overcome, even with people who ain't skeered, because there's no particular reason to think anything worth doing lurks anywhere around there.
Smug and full of answers, I propose a website that a) allows you to order food from downtown restaurants [[and sample their menus) and b) provides an overview of your options downtown, marketed by virtue of a three-part folding brochure with a map of downtown Detroit [[can be an existing map) that the hotel places in all of the hotel rooms [[assuming they're game). This way, you can try to get people who are open to leaving the building to get exposure to some *current* information about what sort of nightlife is available while you're showing them *current* information about the food they can order.
Great, problem solved. <eye roll>

[bobby wobby]

Yes your right Detroit fire Chiefs and Detroit Police Commanders just got a raise ,What happened was they went into arbitration about 6 years ago [[when their last contract expired) and after years of delays they finally got their raise with no back pay, that's the way it fell ,I still think thier one of the lowest paid of any large American City, but thats still too much for some people.

[DetroitDad]

I agree with you as well [[my I'm agreeable today).

As regards to the out of towner at the Marriott or, worse yet, the downtown Holiday Inn Express, I think they may not realize what their options are. Coming in from NYC 5 years ago, I can tell you I had no clue whatsoever what to make of the surface lots and shuttered buildings in what was clearly the center of the region - other than that folks around here obviously maxed out the whole car thing, and kind of wrecked the place in the process. There's definitely an initial impression that needs to be overcome, even with people who ain't skeered, because there's no particular reason to think anything worth doing lurks anywhere around there.
Smug and full of answers, I propose a website that a) allows you to order food from downtown restaurants [[and sample their menus) and b) provides an overview of your options downtown, marketed by virtue of a three-part folding brochure with a map of downtown Detroit [[can be an existing map) that the hotel places in all of the hotel rooms [[assuming they're game). This way, you can try to get people who are open to leaving the building to get exposure to some *current* information about what sort of nightlife is available while you're showing them *current* information about the food they can order.
Great, problem solved. <eye roll>

Well, they can now visit the Inside Detroit run welcome center on Woodward, near Compuware, and/or visit the Inside Detroit web site, which features a slew of links to over 100 bars and restaurants in Downtown Detroit.

While you can't get Downtown's food delivered, unless you are lucky enough to live or work near Downtown, Detroit typically has a Taste Fest or something similar every year in New Center. Many local restaurants also have stands at the Winter Blast every Winter.

This is at least a start...

[kraig]

Well, they can now visit the Inside Detroit run welcome center on Woodward, near Compuware, and/or visit the Inside Detroit web site, which features a slew of links to over 100 bars and restaurants in Downtown Detroit.

While you can't get Downtown's food delivered, unless you are lucky enough to live or work near Downtown, Detroit typically has a Taste Fest or something similar every year in New Center. Many local restaurants also have stands at the Winter Blast every Winter.

This is at least a start...

That's ............nice. But, here's the thing. Detroit needs to get to a point where a lot of other cities are and where Detroit used to be. All a visitor should have to do is walk out of his hotel and head north, east, south, or west. That's how it's done in Chicago, New York, Toronto or LA. Hell, you can even do more of that in downtown Windsor than you can here in Detroit.

[fryar]

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, those things are good. I was specifically trying to come up with something that would give Kraig's hypothetical business traveler staying at the Marriott a reason to maybe go out for dinner and/or drinks, or at least have some food delivered. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference, economically, of course. But it would allow a person in that position who would like to do these things to get a plan together, to go see Greektown, and if they decide that to them that's lame, maybe they hit up Buzz Bar, or maybe the Oyster Bar is more their style. Right now, if you're from out of town and say you're giving a presentation to a potential client in downtown, you could really come away with the impression that you'll have to spend the whole evening in the RenCen/Millender complex, in the heart of the city. What's the concierge going to tell you, are they going to be some kind of downtown enthusiast that they'll know what's where? I hadn't thought about that before, but I think it's true, and a shame at that. So I pulled that website idea out of my butt. :-D
If it got set up, locals could use it to order as well [[including my erstwhile colleagues, when they get their free overtime dinners for working more than 10 hours).

[DetroitDad]

The main reason, IMO, is that the decision-makers have no vision for the city whatsoever. They believe people will go on happily living in places like Farmington Hills and Troy and Clinton Township until the end of time.

Any other metro in the United States would jump at the chance to have an intact urban core ready for redevelopment. But ... Detroit is different.

Are you sure it's not the lack of vision that is the problem, but instead a lack of cooperation, action and commitment?

[Detroitnerd]

Are you sure it's not the lack of vision that is the problem, but instead a lack of cooperation, action and commitment?

There's some truth to that too. But, fundamentally, I think the leaders of ALL units of government across metro Detroit have no vision for the city other than to build their personal political [[or financial) capital and, secondly, manage the ongoing disaster.

[fryar]

Yeah, like that list at insidedetroit.org, but with much more functionality - sorting by type of restaurant, by Yelp-price level or opening hours, interactive mapping, online menus or links to the online menu, that kind of thing. There's probably room to work with them on that, actually.

In thinking about the business traveller at the Marriott, my experience was not successful. I couldn't tell from the addresses on the list at insidedetroit.org which restaurants were close by, and when I finally settled on what sounded like a place that might have the action I pretended to be looking for - a sports bar - I found that Coaches Corner's site did not provide an online menu, though it did have a banner ad for Loco's, which had an online menu [[though no prices) but is a different kind of place altogether. If I'm that business traveller, at this point, maybe I just give up and just "settle" for Andiamo's followed by some TV in my room. I guess what I'm saying is that if we can make it easier to spend an enjoyable evening in Detroit, we can improve the impression people leave Detroit with.

[Russix]

Well, they can now visit the Inside Detroit run welcome center on Woodward, near Compuware, and/or visit the Inside Detroit web site, which features a slew of links to over 100 bars and restaurants in Downtown Detroit.

While you can't get Downtown's food delivered, unless you are lucky enough to live or work near Downtown, Detroit typically has a Taste Fest or something similar every year in New Center. Many local restaurants also have stands at the Winter Blast every Winter.

This is at least a start...

Taste Fest or City Fest in the way it has been previously known is no more: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=5616