Mission Accomplished

**maxx** · June-26-10, 12:44 PM

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Mis...100625-58.html

"...Instead, the intense pressure now will be to finish the job of eviscerating the middle class and transferring every last nickel of their wealth to the oligarchs who fancy themselves masters of the universe....

...And thus the Reagan Occupation inches closer yet to a full-blown "mission accomplished". The middle class is on its knees and shrinking fast. Unions have been broken into irrelevance. Government, supposedly an agent of the public interest, has become a complete tool of those it is meant to monitor. Both political parties are fully owned by the oligarchy. The public has been brainwashed into seeing its allies as enemies and its enemies as allies. We have been drained of hope that any actor on the horizon can come to our rescue.

Bad policy choices by self-serving politicians? Would that "twere only thus.

We are occupied."

**maxx** · June-26-10, 01:01 PM

http://www.counterpunch.org/farago06242010.html
"...There is no doubt that President Obama misjudged and, in key respects, continues to misjudge the risks to the US economy and environment. But how could any president retrace the steps and fix regulatory failures in only eighteen months? These were not just triggered in a fury over eight years of Bush administrations in Washington, and in Florida too. Those eight years finished the hit job on federal authority that rolled out during the Reagan Revolution. Barack Obama's policies and spokespersons may be facing off with John Boehner and Mitch McConnell on Sunday morning talk shows, but who he is really squaring off against are the corporate funders of the Wise Use Movement and the Sagebrush Rebellion: money from Big Oil and Gas seeking profits on public lands that started forty years ago...

...Aquifer destruction in the United States [[soon, coming to Europe), releasing uncontrolled blowouts a mile beneath the sea, wrecking drinking water wells, plowing pollution back underground, one gets the sense that the United States, the can-do nation, is being dissolved by solvents and aromatic compounds into something utterly new and different, something low interest rates can't change or improve, paving the way to a future no father would wish on his children..."

Retroit · June-26-10, 04:41 PM

So what is the alternative? Our capitalistic-socialistic-oligarchic-whateveristic economy has developed over hundreds of years and has been greatly beneficial to contributing to our high standard of living. Of course, there have been abuses, but there were also abuses in the anarchistic cave man days.

Big corporations got big because they provide products/services that many people enjoy. Their customers give them the money with which they promote their own interests, which is to continue to supply their customers.

Boom and bust cycles are inherent in any successful economy. It is unrealistic to expect the government to be able to dictate an eternally booming economy with zero unemployment and zero abuse by greedy opportunists.

Sounds to me like Mr. Green is a socialist who thinks that the government is the solution to all our problems, yet can't seem to find one politician that will prove his point.

**Sstashmoo** · June-27-10, 05:55 AM

Quote: "Big corporations got big because they provide products/services that many people enjoy. Their customers give them the money with which they promote their own interests, which is to continue to supply their customers."

Oh no, haven't you been reading this forum? These corporations are the result of elite backroom deals, they must be seized and all assets confiscated and divided equally amongst the people, it belongs to them anyway.

Retroit · June-27-10, 10:15 AM

^ Or better yet, we could turn over the corporations to the socialists to benevolently run for the good of mankind. After all, they've preven their acumen at running successful economies. Just look at the USSR.

**Papasito** · June-27-10, 10:53 AM

Or better yet, we could turn over the corporations to the socialists to benevolently run for the good of mankind. After all, they've preven their acumen at running successful economies. Just look at the USSR.

**jams** · June-27-10, 07:11 PM

Your point might have been relevant if the USSR still existed.

**Jimaz** · June-27-10, 07:25 PM

I don't even see a point when this is the best that can be posted:

Attachment 6552

There's a test lab here where you can shed your training wheels before wasting everyone's [[including your) time.

Start banging the rocks together guys.

**Jimaz** · June-27-10, 08:05 PM

Ignorance of one's own ignorance/mastery and the Dunning–Kruger effect.

**rb336** · June-28-10, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Retroit

So what is the alternative? Our capitalistic-socialistic-oligarchic-whateveristic economy has developed over hundreds of years and has been greatly beneficial to contributing to our high standard of living. Of course, there have been abuses, but there were also abuses in the anarchistic cave man days.

no, our high standard of living was bought with the blood of workers sick of seeing their robber-baron masters get rich from standing on their backs. Without unions, working people in this country are little more than thralls

Retroit · June-28-10, 11:48 AM

Let's not forget that the workers who bought our high standard of living were very eager to get jobs from the robber barons, including my ancestors who came all the way from Europe to work in the dirty factories and sweatshops of America. I also support unions, as I think they are an efficient way for businesses to interact with large numbers of employees. But unions also need to realize that they can price their members out of the labor market, at which point they are no better off than if the robber barons had never given them a job in the first place.

**Papasito** · June-28-10, 02:58 PM

Where I live and where I work, I see many people who have come from Communist countries. Every one of them I talk to strongly believe they are seeing the same things happen here that happened where they came from. I had a man from Cuba tell me today that he could tell me each step towards Communism/extreme Socialism before the Government does it, because he has seen these things happen before.

He also said it was a shame that we are thowing away what was once the greatest, freeest nation on this Earth.

**Detroitej72** · June-28-10, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

But unions also need to realize that they can price their members out of the labor market, at which point they are no better off than if the robber barons had never given them a job in the first place.

The problem is many of the union leaders sold out the rank and file to the robber barons.

**firstandten** · June-29-10, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Where I live and where I work, I see many people who have come from Communist countries. Every one of them I talk to strongly believe they are seeing the same things happen here that happened where they came from. I had a man from Cuba tell me today that he could tell me each step towards Communism/extreme Socialism before the Government does it, because he has seen these things happen before.

He also said it was a shame that we are thowing away what was once the greatest, freeest nation on this Earth.

Papasito, what are you talking about ? Free, for who ? Great ? yea, if you work on Wall street

Where do you see creeping socialism/communism/ whatever ism you might come up with

Any gov't intervention in the economy since Obama has been in office has been due to massive screw-ups by the private sector that almost got us to a depression.

No companies have been nationized, tell me what things are your co-workers seeing.

Or maybe you prefer a massive de-regulated, any thing goes economy.

Just don't go and ask the gov't to save you when that economic bullet train runs over you.

**Detroitej72** · June-29-10, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Papasito, what are you talking about ? Free, for who ? Great ? yea, if you work on Wall street

Where do you see creeping socialism/communism/ whatever ism you might come up with.

Fox News tells him it is so, therefore, it must be fact.

Originally Posted by firstandten

No companies have been nationalized, tell me what things are your co-workers seeing..

Well, the talking heads on Fox News and AM radio tell him that is the case, surely it must be fact.

Originally Posted by firstandten

Or maybe you prefer a massive de-regulated, any thing goes economy...

Rush, Sean, Mark, Ann, et, AL, feed him a daily dose of why this is pro-American and anti-socialism policy, why should Papa believe anything different?

Originally Posted by firstandten

Just don't go and ask the govt to save you when that economic bullet train runs over you.

I'm willing to bet that if Papa's bank fails due to these policies, he will bitch and moan if the FDIC fails to compensate him for his looses. The same goes if he looses his job, I'm sure he'll apply for those "liberal entitlements" , like unemployment benefits.

The cons are against government, except when they need government to help their sorry asses.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-29-10, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Where I live and where I work, I see many people who have come from Communist countries. Every one of them I talk to strongly believe they are seeing the same things happen here that happened where they came from. I had a man from Cuba tell me today that he could tell me each step towards Communism/extreme Socialism before the Government does it, because he has seen these things happen before.

So Fidel Castro and Che Guevara are currently roaming through the Appalachian Mountains, combating the United States Armed Forces?

Please.

**maxx** · June-29-10, 12:24 PM

Papsito:
Evidently you missed all the comparisons of the W admin and creeping fascism.

retroit: Big corporations got big because they provide products/services that many people enjoy. Their customers give them the money with which they promote their own interests, which is to continue to supply their customers.

And for the most part those products and services were provided at someone else's expense.
http://nasdonline.org/document/1252/...ing-issue.html
"Perhaps more than any other occupational group, agricultural workers are exposed to a tremendous variety of environmental hazards that are potentially harmful to their health and well-being. Farmers and farm workers suffer from increased rates of respiratory diseases, noise-induced hearing loss, skin disorders, certain cancers, chemical toxicity, and heat-related illnesses..."

**maxx** · July-01-10, 01:03 PM

Here's something for all the people paranoid about the government. Play along with the CIA.

https://www.cia.gov/kids-page/index.html

**maxx** · July-19-10, 02:17 PM

I knew someone in Congress was trying to pass legislation in response to the SCOTUS ruling on corporate money in elections. Guess who don't want to vote for it?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_651422.html

**Detroit Stylin** · July-19-10, 05:11 PM

Whenever you're threatened by self, rational thought....you can call on these guys:

**TKshreve** · July-19-10, 11:08 PM

So what is the alternative? Our capitalistic-socialistic-oligarchic-whateveristic economy has developed over hundreds of years and has been greatly beneficial to contributing to our high standard of living. Of course, there have been abuses, but there were also abuses in the anarchistic cave man days.

This here is priceless. First, The article does not disagree with you. We did quite well for quite some time due to a strong, supported middle class. Couple that with an aggressive tax structure on the wealthy - POOF! Growth. The Greatest Generation had quite a ride. They may have dealt with incurable diseases and unwanted wars but....... so do we.

Secondly, "abuses" should never be tolerated and forever hunted out of existence. You almost justify the entire meltdown [[not to mention physical catastrophes) with that one sentence. Amazing. And comparing our partisan, $hit-stained, hand tied goverment with the caveman days is is a reach at best. Sorry, man has supposedly grown up since then. Right?

Big corporations got big because they provide products/services that many people enjoy. Their customers give them the money with which they promote their own interests, which is to continue to supply their customers.

Seems pretty simple and snappy. You seem to leave out the unpatriotic efforts of Corporate America to employ there own people. Jobs have been shoving off for years upon years due to their unfortunate labor and trade predicament. And "their customers" have very few options on who else to give "their money" over to.

Boom and bust cycles are inherent in any successful economy. It is unrealistic to expect the government to be able to dictate an eternally booming economy with zero unemployment and zero abuse by greedy opportunists.

I fully agree with this statement. Straight growth is unattainable. However, could the strength and suppression of those particular movements [[respectively) not be dictated. Interest rates anyone? Stimulus check anybody?

Sounds to me like Mr. Green is a socialist who thinks that the government is the solution to all our problems, yet can't seem to find one politician that will prove his point.

I think his point is that all politicians are no longer representing the people. At least those who make the important decisions. After all, I didn't hear him lay off any of the presidents who fit into his post-Ike political meltdown era.

What bugs me the most is that Government is supoosed to be a solution to certain societal ills. Not all of them. Some things need to be handled by the free market - Like bankruptcy for one.

But to tell ourselves that "accidental" oil spills, bridges collapsing, political gridlock, runaway health care costs, job shipping, etc., etc., and of course the eradication of the American middle class is acceptable, well.......that is the beginning of the end to me.

**Papasito** · July-20-10, 06:33 AM

But to tell ourselves that "accidental" oil spills, bridges collapsing, political gridlock, runaway health care costs, job shipping, etc., etc., and of course the eradication of the American middle class is acceptable, well.......that is the beginning of the end to me

It's the premeditated, pre planned transition toward the United States becoming a third world nation. Keep the Democrats hating the Republicans and the Republicans hating the Democrats, make sure people's eyes are fixated on manufactured drama, while the real work is being done behind the scenes.

**oldredfordette** · July-20-10, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Where I live and where I work, I see many people who have come from Communist countries. Every one of them I talk to strongly believe they are seeing the same things happen here that happened where they came from. I had a man from Cuba tell me today that he could tell me each step towards Communism/extreme Socialism before the Government does it, because he has seen these things happen before.

He also said it was a shame that we are thowing away what was once the greatest, freeest nation on this Earth.

I keep asking you this and you never answer. Have you ever read a history book in your life?

**maxx** · July-20-10, 07:59 AM

Papasito:
About Cuba, have you ever heard of the name Fulgencio Batista?

**Papasito** · July-20-10, 08:18 AM

I keep asking you this and you never answer. Have you ever read a history book in your life?

You are a graphic designer, I am in retail management.
Neither of us is a history professor.

And the answer to your condescendingly asked question, is yes, of course.

Do you want to scoff at the elderly Cuban man, who saw promises of freedom and liberation, who heard the dreams of social equality and care for every Cuban, and instead saw a people opressed? A man who saw Government takeover of sector after sector of the economy until the Government controlled everything? The very food they eat put on ration? The limitation of electricity? The limitation of transportation? Is it the fact that what he saw in his home country from where he fled, looking for a better life, is now happening here? That has nothing to do with my education in history. It has to do with a man who told me his opinion, which I passed onto the pages of this forum.

Yes, I have read my share of history.
I see history unfolding today. Look at Venezuela. The Government there is taking over the private sector by storm. Is it a mirror reflection of what is happening here? Not quite yet, but there is no doubt that things are changing.
History tells us that the promise of financial equality leads to a nation that is almost all poor, with only the folks who run the show remaining as the ultimate elite. Look at the former Soviet Union and the Eastern block countries, for example. Even historical monarchies are an example of a large population of poor controlled by a small percentage of rich and powerful. Pelosi, the Bushes, the Clintons, the Obamas, the Reids, the Gingriches and many others are not missing any meals. You and I are to feel lucky that we have employment at all. We are to be greatful if we can make ends meet, while the powerful make us angry at the rich, who employ us, and rule over us.

If you wish to discuss some specific history, just ask. There is quite a bit I know, and admittedly, quite a bit I don't. But history is something that always interests me. The sad thing is that it keeps being re-written. Textbooks are not always accurate, and tend to leave out critical information.