Why Did GM Move to Ren Ctr & Leave Cadillac Place?

[amika]

Just curious why GM left Cadillac Tower for the Ren Ctr.
Cadillac Tower [Place] is a really lovely building.

[DetroitPlanner]

GM was never in Cadillac Tower, they were in what became Cadillac Place.

Why did they move? They got a deal, they wanted a signature building that could house the entire corporation. Originally Olds, Pontiac, and Buick were to move there from Lansing, Pontiac and Flint. It was a growing company with its own bank, and new ventures with Hummer, OnStar, and EDS.

GM was the best thing that ever happened to the RenCen, they opened up the fortress and built a beautiful plaza. GM tore down the ugly berms and tried to bring retailing back to the main floor. I do miss Nemos and the Coney Island Inn, but ya got to crack some eggs to make an omlet.

[kryptonite]

Dplanner, I agree. The RenCen looks much better since GM moved in. If they would only address the lack of retail on the Jefferson side it would help a great deal. GM has too many closed rooms not open to the public on the Jefferson side, it has a deserted feel. A friend of mine said you get the feeling you are somewhere you should not be.

[DetroitPlanner]

I don't think you can blame the lack of retail on GM per se, they tried to get lots there, remember under GM the RenCen added was Brooks Brothers, Casual Corner, Pangborn, Seldom Blues Asian Village, Community Choice Credit Union, GMAC, and a whole slew of others that have closed.

The reality is that Metro Detroit is a very hard market for retail and I'm sure that these spaces don't come cheap due to their address. Lets face it, in addition the building is also less occupied than it was when GM first took it over. Less people in the place on a regular basis makes it harder for businesses to survive. I think its great that Andiamo is talking about expanding into Seldom Blues space. Andiamo has better management due to having fewer partners and a proven track record.

[gnome]

The story why GM is in the Ren Cen is rather involved and many of the details hae drifted back into the far creases of my brain pan; Gistok remembers the details but I'll try to give it a try.

One, Archer was mayor and was anxious to move City Hall out of the Coleman Young building.

Two, Ford was tired of the Ren Cen and Detroit and wanted to move their marketing offices back to Dearborn. Ford Properties were busy developing their old soybean fields just north of the Glass House and they needed tennets.

Three, GM had a beautiful building that needed massive updates. Central air, wiring, Cat5, and they were hampered by the small office spaces in Billy Durant's building.

Archer hatched a plan to keep Ford in Detroit: GM sells their building to the City for a buck, the City sells Coleman Young Building to Ford for a buck and GM was to buy the Ren Cen for pennies on the dollar. City Hall would then move to the old GM building on west Grand Blvd.

The various power players were in agreement to this plan; however, an up roar developed around the notion that "outsiders" were going to steal the Coleman Young Building. I recall that the call to action was around something like "they" are stealing the waterfront in an effort ot take back the City.

So the deal blew up and Ford said "we're out of here" put the Ren Cen on the market and moved their Marketing Departemnts to their campuses on Southfield at Hubbard.

however, Archer wasn't finished. He had a pretty good relationship with the much hated John Fucking Engler. A new plan was hatched.

GM sells their old HQ to the State of Michigan for a buck. The State sells their building at Woodward and East Grand Blvd to the city for a buck. [[It would later become Detroit Police District 1 HQ as well as offices for Lakeshore Engineering, Caroline Cheeks Kilpatrick and eventually kwame's election HQ. The story between Lakeshore Engineering and CCK is long and involved and too complex to quickly describe.)

With Engler behind the plan, Archer was able to rescue part of the deal. Ford took the Ren Cen off the market, sold it to GM and with a middle finger in the rear view mirror, Ford left town forever.

Oh, and the Coleman Young Building is still a rotting stinky mess with little hope of ever being upgraded in our lifetimes.

again, there are a ton of details behind this piece of history ... one of those details surrounds the selling of the Coleman Young Building and then leasing it back.

[LodgeDodger]

Interestingly enough, when GM decided to move to the RenCen, most of the efforts to clean and restore the ceiling were abandoned. If you enter the building using the East entrance, look up. You can see [[approximately one-third of the way down the corridor) the spot where the crews stopped cleaning. There is a distinct color difference.

[amika]

Gnome - I'm amazed at the info you shared! WOW!!
Thank you so much for the answer. I knew someone on this board would know.

[gnome]

r8rrob, the deal with the american center is also complicated and believe it or not, it involves Nike missles.

Short version: the vacant land to the west of the American Center and the National Guard Base/ Missle site was tied up in murky landownership. At first, when the American Center was planned the missles were still in place and the land in between could not be built upon. Once the missle were removed, the land was partially owned by the City of Southfield, a half dozen jewish dentists, the owner od Sam's Pawn shop on Michigan and a bunch of other people, including the Federal government.

In short, AMC never had the ability to build a tech center on that land and by the time chrysler bought them in '85 or 86 lee had his eyes set on a clear slate location.

There were other problems with the American Center that would not have made it the best choice as HQ. Parking, road access, taxes and having to buy out the people that were already there.


amika, Gistok remember it better than I do, I'm sure I've missed some points but you get the idea: without Archer and Engler, GM could very well have moved to Warren.

[R8RBOB]

The story why GM is in the Ren Cen is rather involved and many of the details hae drifted back into the far creases of my brain pan; Gistok remembers the details but I'll try to give it a try.

One, Archer was mayor and was anxious to move City Hall out of the Coleman Young building.

Two, Ford was tired of the Ren Cen and Detroit and wanted to move their marketing offices back to Dearborn. Ford Properties were busy developing their old soybean fields just north of the Glass House and they needed tennets.

Three, GM had a beautiful building that needed massive updates. Central air, wiring, Cat5, and they were hampered by the small office spaces in Billy Durant's building.

Archer hatched a plan to keep Ford in Detroit: GM sells their building to the City for a buck, the City sells Coleman Young Building to Ford for a buck and GM was to buy the Ren Cen for pennies on the dollar. City Hall would then move to the old GM building on west Grand Blvd.

The various power players were in agreement to this plan; however, an up roar developed around the notion that "outsiders" were going to steal the Coleman Young Building. I recall that the call to action was around something like "they" are stealing the waterfront in an effort ot take back the City.

So the deal blew up and Ford said "we're out of here" put the Ren Cen on the market and moved their Marketing Departemnts to their campuses on Southfield at Hubbard.

however, Archer wasn't finished. He had a pretty good relationship with the much hated John Fucking Engler. A new plan was hatched.

GM sells their old HQ to the State of Michigan for a buck. The State sells their building at Woodward and East Grand Blvd to the city for a buck. [[It would later become Detroit Police District 1 HQ as well as offices for Lakeshore Engineering, Caroline Cheeks Kilpatrick and eventually kwame's election HQ. The story between Lakeshore Engineering and CCK is long and involved and too complex to quickly describe.)

With Engler behind the plan, Archer was able to rescue part of the deal. Ford took the Ren Cen off the market, sold it to GM and with a middle finger in the rear view mirror, Ford left town forever.

Oh, and the Coleman Young Building is still a rotting stinky mess with little hope of ever being upgraded in our lifetimes.

again, there are a ton of details behind this piece of history ... one of those details surrounds the selling of the Coleman Young Building and then leasing it back.

This is detail I didn't know but I do remember the folks was raising hell about GM acquiring a foothold on the riverfront. I also remember Archer attempting to sell the move to the then-GM building by stating that the then-City-County building was never completely finish thereby a number of city departments had to be relocated to other properties because of lack of space at the City-County building. There was noise about moving city offices to the New Center area because people felt that Detroit government should be in downtown instead of outside of the downtown area.

I remember there were hearings about GM acquiring the Ren Cen to gauge the feelings of the public. [[A result of the up roar that was commented about, I suppose) I went to one of these meetings and my friend at the time want me to speak out in opposition to GM purchasing the Renaissance Center. After hearing some of the speakers speak in favor of GM get the Ren Cen, I had to agree with the move and I didn't go up to speak my piece and my friend was pissed.

[Burnsie]

Good summary, Gnome, but one correction: Ford didn't own the RenCen. From NY Times, 5/17/96: "A Texas company, Highgate Hotels, bought the property this spring, reportedly for $72 million, and General Motors bought it from Highgate for what G.M.'s vice chairman, Harry J. Pearce, would only describe as 'the right price.'"

[Gistok]

Good job Gnome!!

Burnsie is correct... however.... Highgate [[IIRC they also owned the Ponchartrain at the time)... was merely the go-between between the Ford consortium and GM. Highgate bought the RenCen [[as a front for GM) for $72 million, and the immediately flipped it to GM for around $75 million.

If the previous RenCen owners had known that GM was interested in buying the RenCen... the price would have risen dramatically.

Now getting back to Gnome's comments about Archer and his idea to move City Hall from the CAY Building to Cadillac Centre [[former GM HQ)....

Some city employees started a rumor that there was a "hidden agendy" for moving the mostly African American city workers out to New Center... it was to get blacks out of downtown. Some of the imbecile City Council members [[McPhail, Watson, Collins) publicly stated this same "hidden agenda" theory.. and that was the end of the move of City Hall from a dumpy building [[just look inside the windows when riding past on the People Mover)... to a world class structure... Albert Kahn's 1920 former GM HQ.

Instead Engler did what was likely the best thing he ever did for Detroit... give the states largest city a world class state office building [[that ranks right up there with Chicago's modern State of Illinois Center).

In Detroit the easiest way to kill even the best idea is to slap it with the label... "hidden agenda"... and splat... it's dead.

[detroitbob]

Glad that GM moved and completed the upgrades before the market crashed...and that the President said that GM could not leave Detroit...they can't sell REN Cen for what they paid and invested to date.

[R8RBOB]

Good job Gnome!!

Burnsie is correct... however.... Highgate [[IIRC they also owned the Ponchartrain at the time)... was merely the go-between between the Ford consortium and GM. Highgate bought the RenCen [[as a front for GM) for $72 million, and the immediately flipped it to GM for around $75 million.

If the previous RenCen owners had known that GM was interested in buying the RenCen... the price would have risen dramatically.

Now getting back to Gnome's comments about Archer and his idea to move City Hall from the CAY Building to Cadillac Centre [[former GM HQ)....

Some city employees started a rumor that there was a "hidden agendy" for moving the mostly African American city workers out to New Center... it was to get blacks out of downtown. Some of the imbecile City Council members [[McPhail, Watson, Collins) publicly stated this same "hidden agenda" theory.. and that was the end of the move of City Hall from a dumpy building [[just look inside the windows when riding past on the People Mover)... to a world class structure... Albert Kahn's 1920 former GM HQ.

Instead Engler did what was likely the best thing he ever did for Detroit... give the states largest city a world class state office building [[that ranks right up there with Chicago's modern State of Illinois Center).

In Detroit the easiest way to kill even the best idea is to slap it with the label... "hidden agenda"... and splat... it's dead.

Just want to correct something you pointed out. In the late 90's Barbara-Rose Collins, JoAnn Watson and Sharon McPhail was not on the City Council. Collins returned to the council in 2002 which was the same year that McPhail was elected. Watson was voted in a special election in 2003 following the death of Brenda Scott.

Women who was on the council in the late 90's were Mahaffey, Scott, Cockrel, Everett, Tinsley-Williams

[Russix]

When my brother worked at the then GM Building in New Center, Detroit Edison would call up on hot days during the summer and ask them to close down for the day because all the window ac units were taxing the hell out of the electrical grid.

[Russix]

Not if you build a building to be a fort. The Renaissance Center failed the day the architects decided to build it on the other side of Jefferson. The berms didn't help boost retailers or customers.

Portman once stated that during his stay in Detroit, he was told not to walk around and to take a cab even if he was going a few blocks down the street. This mentality was reflected perfectly in the original Ren Cen construction.

[Traveller1]

Did Ford actually have its headquarters at the RenCen before 1996, or was it still at the Glass House at that time?

Also, when did Manufactures Bank move out of the RenCen? I know that they were headquartered there from the time that the building opened but forgot when they moved out. Was it when Comerica Tower [[One Detroit Center) was built?

[jonathanlivingstonseagull]

Did Ford actually have its headquarters at the RenCen before 1996, or was it still at the Glass House at that time?

Also, when did Manufactures Bank move out of the RenCen? I know that they were headquartered there from the time that the building opened but forgot when they moved out. Was it when Comerica Tower [[One Detroit Center) was built?

The Ford HQ was never at Ren Cen. It never left the Glass House in Dearborn.

To answer some of the above questions - the shops at Renaissance Center [[mall) started out with very high-end tenants that you may now find at Somerset [[and more) - some are no longer around. It was supposed to be a destination for suburban shoppers WAY before Somerset expanded. Hell, this was, I believe, before Taubman pulled his retail trifecta on metro Detroit [[Fairlane, Twelve Oaks, Lakeside). The circular layout and lack of "landmarks" confused shoppers and the parking situation wasn't "mall grade". When the Shops at Ren Cen opened, I believe there were still two department stores downtown: Hudson's and Sak's Fifth Avenue [[New Center). Not sure if Crowley's was there.

[jt1]

When my brother worked at the then GM Building in New Center, Detroit Edison would call up on hot days during the summer and ask them to close down for the day because all the window ac units were taxing the hell out of the electrical grid.

Correct and incorrect.

The reason this occurred is that many mfg companies with a number of facilities work out deals with the utility companies. They receive a reduced rate for their electricity but the provider also has the right to request that they shed load during peak usage. Essentially DTE could request that they shut down any non-critical facilities to reduce load. This deal applied to all facilities that receive electricty from the provider. It was not unique to that building.

[R8RBOB]

Portman once stated that during his stay in Detroit, he was told not to walk around and to take a cab even if he was going a few blocks down the street. This mentality was reflected perfectly in the original Ren Cen construction.

I suppose it did. I remember going into the RenCen as a teenager and it seems like a maze to me. In fact, it still feel like going through a maze. The idea of a city within a city never flew with me.

[Zacha341]

I think part of the retail shopping is the perception that ther5e is no parking at the Ren Cen.

I earned some of my best parking tickets in that area back in the 80's and 90's trying to beat the meter maid/ man or paying a fortune to find deck parking when available or walking too far to get to the building from parking off site. Those combined experiences branded in my mind that it was too much effort to shop in there.

Also the early 5 - 6 pm closing of shops in general downtown was/ is a turn off. It's as though the shops only catered to "working" hours only. And for those working in the buildings... and as less people worked in the offices and buildings sales slumped.

I think this is turning around a bit with GM's increased presence. Now what will become of the original GM building up on West Gran Blvd.?

I don't think you can blame the lack of retail on GM per se, they tried to get lots there, remember under GM the RenCen added was Brooks Brothers, Casual Corner, Pangborn, Seldom Blues Asian Village, Community Choice Credit Union, GMAC, and a whole slew of others that have closed.

The reality is that Metro Detroit is a very hard market for retail and I'm sure that these spaces don't come cheap due to their address. Lets face it, in addition the building is also less occupied than it was when GM first took it over. Less people in the place on a regular basis makes it harder for businesses to survive. I think its great that Andiamo is talking about expanding into Seldom Blues space. Andiamo has better management due to having fewer partners and a proven track record.

[Detroit500]

My biggest question has always been why are there no residences as part of the RenCen... In order to have a "city within a city" wouldn't you need somewhere for those people to live?

[Jason]

There was a residential component to the Ren Cen which was never finished.

It was supposed to be flanked by 4 shorter office towers on each side [[two were built north east of the Ren Cen). Then on the southern edge of the ren cen there was going to be residential facing the river. And then I think the roofs of all of the bases were going to be some kind of plaza.

Here's a rendering:

[56packman]

A couple of things: the building that is now known as "Cadillac Place" was known as the "General Motors headquarters" during their long history there.
Conditions at Chrysler's Highland Park headquarters were bad, and Chrysler, having come back from the brink of death and enjoying the success of having repaid the government loans ahead of time decided to move to auburn hills and build their headquarters and engineering, styling, administration and preproduction build under one roof.
Workers were routinely being robbed as they left work, and one engineer was killed in a parking lot in a robbery-gone-bad [[note to some: this is not normal, and should not be accepted as normal), Highland Park was not responsive to contain this chaos and Chrysler voted with their feet. Facilities were old and aging in HP, some predated Walter P. Chrysler's conversion of Maxwell into Chrysler, and it was time to go.
The area is not derelict, it's not the Packard plant, Chrysler demolished everything and now there are modern industrial buildings on the site.

[fastcarsandfreedom]

Regarding Comerica and it's occupancy at the RenCen -- legacy Comerica [[Detroit Bank & Trust) had it's headquarters at 211 West Fort Street. Manufacturers National Bank had it's headquarters at the RenCen, as well as having additional offices at 411 West Lafayette. Post-merger the bank maintained all 3 sites, though I believe the actual headquarters remained at 211 West Fort. Once Comerica signed the lease at One Detroit Center, the offices left both the RenCen and 211 West Fort...though 411 West Lafayette was maintained...now with Comerica's disappearing act to Dallas, everything is being consolidated back at 411 West Lafayette...full-circle.

An interesting side-note which I know has been discussed here before, but I'll re-hash for the sake of those who might not be aware. The mothballed Manufacturers Bank Executive Suite/Boardroom was left fully intact at the RenCen--and GM now uses it as it's Executive Offices having made only minor cosmetic alterations as well as obvious technoligical upgrades to the space--a good reuse of the custom-designed space and something that definitely shows that GM was at least beginning to think progressively when it made the move downtown.

Another tidbit--the bank's presence at both sites is maintained by way of the branches still operating at West Fort and the RenCen--at the RenCen branch [[or near it) I believe there is still a bronze plaque commemorating Manufacturers' role in the development and construction of the complex. Comerica also uses the columns on the historic DB&T branch adjoining 211 West Fort in some of it's recent "Prevail" ad/posters.

[Don K]

The Ford HQ was never at Ren Cen. It never left the Glass House in Dearborn.

To answer some of the above questions - the shops at Renaissance Center [[mall) started out with very high-end tenants that you may now find at Somerset [[and more) - some are no longer around. It was supposed to be a destination for suburban shoppers WAY before Somerset expanded. Hell, this was, I believe, before Taubman pulled his retail trifecta on metro Detroit [[Fairlane, Twelve Oaks, Lakeside). The circular layout and lack of "landmarks" confused shoppers and the parking situation wasn't "mall grade". When the Shops at Ren Cen opened, I believe there were still two department stores downtown: Hudson's and Sak's Fifth Avenue [[New Center). Not sure if Crowley's was there.

Correct. Ford Sales and Marketing was in the Ren Cen. They now are in the blue building on the SE corner of Southfield and Ford. I can't remember what that building's called, but Ford employees know it as the Blue Lagoon.

Incidentally, the building of the Blue Lagoon was involved in the demolition of the old [[pre-Glass House) Ford WHQ between Rotunda and Schaefer, later home of Lincoln-Mercury Division and then of Parts and Service. The idea was that Ford Credit would move to the Blue Lagoon [[along with Marketing and Sales, I believe), and Parts and Service [[now Customer Service Division) would move into the Ford Credit building after a renovation. In the event, Ford Credit stayed in its building after a year in Southfield during the rehabbing, and I believe Customer Service is in the Blue Lagoon along with Sales and Marketing. My career was with Ford Credit, and I was involved to an extent with the space planning for the Blue Lagoon move. That building follows typical 80's-90's practice for suburban buildings in having gobs of potential corner offices. Now, under the Ford standards for office space, the only Ford Credit employee authorized for a corner office is the Chairman, so we were putting meeting rooms, coat racks, copiers, and printers in all those corners to avoid having corner offices [[or God forbid cubes) for anyone other than the Chairman.

Regarding the Ren Cen, I always thought it was a great example of awful modern architecture. Those berms along Jefferson and the parking lot along the river were bad enough, but when you entered the public areas of the complex not only would you get completely lost your first few times through, but it seemed everything was unadorned pre-stressed concrete. I always thought the Blade Runner look was supposed to be a vision of dystopia, not a prescription for urban design. Retail anywhere depends on having sufficient population within a reasonable distance from the store, and given that Detroit hasn't had many upper-income people living downtown in ages, it wasn't realistic to expect high-end retailers to survive in the Ren Cen. There aren't too many execs who are going to pop downstairs over lunch to buy a couple of suits.

Finally, I agree totally that Detroit got ripped off for a downtown because Ford was in Dearborn, Chrysler was in HP and NYC, and GM was in New Center. Had the Three had their headquarters [[and associated suppliers) downtown, then downtown Detroit would have been a way more impressive place.