Another blow: Doner loses $150m Mazda account

**BShea** · June-21-10, 10:18 AM

Just heard this this morning:

Southfield ad agency Doner says it lost Mazda account

By Bill Shea
Southfield-based advertising agency Doner said today it has lost the Mazda account, which is 20 percent of the firm’s business.

The North American account is believed to be worth about $150 million.

The account has been in play for several months, and it’s unclear if Doner was eliminated from the process or if a new agency of record has been named.

A Mazda spokeswoman said she was unaware of Doner’s statement this morning, and was planning to put together an announcement.

The independent agency, which is officially W.B. Doner & Co. but does business as Doner, has had the account since 1997 and developed the Japanese automaker’s well-known “Zoom Zoom” campaign.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/100629996

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 01:25 PM

I have no sympathy for a Detroit firm doing business with a Japanese auto firm....Live by the Japanese die by the Japanese....I don't applogize for this way of thinking either. I am a die hard American Car guy. While in the past we [[GM, Ford & Chrylser) were not known for quality it is there now! And while some will argue that they build them [[ Japanese) cars here, the PROFITS still head to Japan. You have to understand the Big Picture of our economy.....I expect a lot of flack from this and I don't care.

**econ expat** · June-21-10, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

I have no sympathy for a Detroit firm doing business with a Japanese auto firm....Live by the Japanese die by the Japanese....I don't applogize for this way of thinking either. I am a die hard American Car guy. While in the past we [[GM, Ford & Chrylser) were not known for quality it is there now! And while some will argue that they build them [[ Japanese) cars here, the PROFITS still head to Japan. You have to understand the Big Picture of our economy.....I expect a lot of flack from this and I don't care.

More well intentioned, but uninformed spite for a non 'big 3' car maker.
Ford Motor, thought differently.
Starting late 70's Ford bought into Mazda Motors,
eventually gaining controlling interest.
They were forced to sell off some when hard times hit in 2008.

**313WX** · June-21-10, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

I have no sympathy for a Detroit firm doing business with a Japanese auto firm....Live by the Japanese die by the Japanese....I don't applogize for this way of thinking either. I am a die hard American Car guy. While in the past we [[GM, Ford & Chrylser) were not known for quality it is there now! And while some will argue that they build them [[ Japanese) cars here, the PROFITS still head to Japan. You have to understand the Big Picture of our economy.....I expect a lot of flack from this and I don't care.

If I ever heard such a looney statement before, this is it.

Since we want to discuss "Big Picture Economics", to keep thing short & simple, a sudden 20% loss in any company's revenue will mean more cuts in their firms, and the first thing all companies take a slash at is their employment levels. So that will ultimately mean more layoffs and more unemployed poeple completing for the very few jobs left in Metro Detroit while depending on the severely-strained [[if not bankrupt) Michigan and Federal government to feed and put a roof over themselves.

So yeah, don't you want to adjust your obscured opinion?

**bailey** · June-21-10, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

I have no sympathy for a Detroit firm doing business with a Japanese auto firm....Live by the Japanese die by the Japanese....I don't applogize for this way of thinking either. I am a die hard American Car guy. While in the past we [[GM, Ford & Chrylser) were not known for quality it is there now! And while some will argue that they build them [[ Japanese) cars here, the PROFITS still head to Japan. You have to understand the Big Picture of our economy.....I expect a lot of flack from this and I don't care.

So it's ok for Ford and GM to close every factory they have in the US and build their products in China, Mexico and elsewhere....so long as the profits come here?

**iheartthed** · June-21-10, 02:25 PM

Does Ford still own a controlling stake in Mazda?

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

So it's ok for Ford and GM to close every factory they have in the US and build their products in China, Mexico and elsewhere....so long as the profits come here?

First of all they are NOT closing EVERY factory here....Don't know where your getting your information but your wrong. As for the factories in China....they supply the Chineese with cars, non of those vehicles come here. And yes cars are made in Mexico and yes they are sold here....And YES the profits stay here to pay YOU the tax payer your money back on the bail out. You YES you should be happy.

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

If I ever heard such a looney statement before, this is it.

Since we want to discuss "Big Picture Economics", to keep thing short & simple, a sudden 20% loss in any company's revenue will mean more cuts in their firms, and the first thing all companies take a slash at is their employment levels. So that will ultimately mean more layoffs and more unemployed poeple completing for the very few jobs left in Metro Detroit while depending on the severely-strained [[if not bankrupt) Michigan and Federal government to feed and put a roof over themselves.

So yeah, don't you want to adjust your obscured opinion?

Its called deversify.....if you have a company that relies on 20% of your income from One source of income then shame on you. In this day and age you can not be content on relying on any one source for your welfare. And in case you didn't notice it was 20% which leaves 80% still going strong. A lesson for sure.
Yes it May mean layoffs and I am sorry for that, but that is a sign of the times.
Maybe they can see what Toyota or Honda can offer.....its not the end of the world.

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by econ expat

More well intentioned, but uninformed spite for a non 'big 3' car maker.
Ford Motor, thought differently.
Starting late 70's Ford bought into Mazda Motors,
eventually gaining controlling interest.
They were forced to sell off some when hard times hit in 2008.

Yes ALL the big three were in bed with the Japanese....but have all gone away. Nummi plant in California making GM & Toyota cars on the same line...and by the way were a UAW plant....now making Tesla electric cars for the Japanese..... So yes I am informed.

**iheartthed** · June-21-10, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

Its called deversify.....if you have a company that relies on 20% of your income from One source of income then shame on you. In this day and age you can not be content on relying on any one source for your welfare. And in case you didn't notice it was 20% which leaves 80% still going strong. A lesson for sure.
Yes it May mean layoffs and I am sorry for that, but that is a sign of the times.
Maybe they can see what Toyota or Honda can offer.....its not the end of the world.

Tell that to all of the auto suppliers sprinkled around Metro Detroit who provide products to the domestic automakers.

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Tell that to all of the auto suppliers sprinkled around Metro Detroit who provide products to the domestic automakers.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Detroitej72** · June-21-10, 03:13 PM

Mazda's plant in Flat Rock MI is still operating and last I checked haven't started importing workers from Japan, choosing to employ Michigan workers instead.

**bailey** · June-21-10, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

First of all they are NOT closing EVERY factory here....Don't know where your getting your information but your wrong.

I didn't say they were, however, clearly by your logic, you would have no problem if they did.

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I didn't say they were, however, clearly by your logic, you would have no problem if they did.

I have a problem closing ANY US plant make US company autos......

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Mazda's plant in Flat Rock MI is still operating and last I checked haven't started importing workers from Japan, choosing to employ Michigan workers instead.

Again in case you missed previous posts...about Profits going to Japan. Has nothing to do with who is employing Americans. Those people would have been working for American car companies had more people bought American Cars.

And I am sure the advertising agency was not upset to see American workers get laid off when they still had the Mazda account. Hell they probably drove Mazdas....

**Searay215** · June-21-10, 03:26 PM

I want to thank all of you for debating this issue with me....it has really made my day more enjoyable....lets agree to disagree. I have got some things to do so have at it!!

**313WX** · June-21-10, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Mazda's plant in Flat Rock MI is still operating and last I checked haven't started importing workers from Japan, choosing to employ Michigan workers instead.

THAT particular plant is largely owned by Ford.

**Patrick** · June-21-10, 06:27 PM

Back to the TOPIC...

My sister was laid off from Doner going on a year ago. Trouble seems to have been brewing for quite a while. They have lost a a good number of big accounts in recent times so I wonder what the issue is. Is it a lack of leadership? Is there a stigma attached to SE Michigan ad agencies?

**leland_palmer** · June-21-10, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

I have no sympathy for a Detroit firm doing business with a Japanese auto firm....Live by the Japanese die by the Japanese....I don't applogize for this way of thinking either. I am a die hard American Car guy. While in the past we [[GM, Ford & Chrylser) were not known for quality it is there now! And while some will argue that they build them [[ Japanese) cars here, the PROFITS still head to Japan. You have to understand the Big Picture of our economy.....I expect a lot of flack from this and I don't care.

That is pretty shot sighted on your part. Things like this don't happen in a vacuum. What about the the people that do business with companies that do business with a Japanese auto firm? Like say post houses which are already reeling from the lost of BBDO Detroit and GM taking their accounts out of state.

Originally Posted by Patrick

Back to the TOPIC...

My sister was laid off from Doner going on a year ago. Trouble seems to have been brewing for quite a while. They have lost a a good number of big accounts in recent times so I wonder what the issue is. Is it a lack of leadership? Is there a stigma attached to SE Michigan ad agencies?

You would have thought that they would have begun to diversify once they lost all of that May Company business. They had too many eggs in once basket back then.

**Patrick** · June-21-10, 07:03 PM

I have heard some "creatives" from the coasts say that detroit has a huge lack of creative talent but I disagree with that. Can anyone elaborate on the level of creativity in Metro Detroit, at least from an ad point of view?

**Zimm** · June-22-10, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by leland_palmer

You would have thought that they would have begun to diversify once they lost all of that May Company business. They had too many eggs in once basket back then.

Doner was already going downhill well before the May Company business was lost. lots of talent came and went, but mostly went. management began to look like the house of cards we all suspected they were. the work and the ideas all continued to look the same while other agencies were out there getting it right.worse yet, i think that many of their clients, while big accounts, were businesses destined to either fail or be stragglers amongst their peers.

says a guy who worked on the May Co business...

glad i left both the agency and the business.

**Meddle** · June-22-10, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick

They have lost a a good number of big accounts in recent times so I wonder what the issue is.

Silly things like 'zoom, zoom, zoom' perhaps? Nonsense ads are why I don't watch commercials or buy from merchants who run those types of ads. I hit the 'Mute' button as fast as I can when an ad interferes with a program I'm watching, but occasionally one slips through and assaults my ears.

**Zacha341** · June-22-10, 07:42 AM

It's all topsy-turvy in regards to purity of US Car manufacturing vs. Japanese and European imports... that being said, Doner had to have seen this coming. Mazda sales are low with the two leading Japanese sales being Toyota and Honda! Duh. You don't see many Mazda's on the road as you once did, or maybe I am just not noticing them. Does Mazda even have a flag ship car? I recall the 626 and 929 sedans of the 90s... sorta.

Originally Posted by bailey

So it's ok for Ford and GM to close every factory they have in the US and build their products in China, Mexico and elsewhere....so long as the profits come here?

**Zacha341** · June-22-10, 07:56 AM

Speaking as a creative having done agency work and now working in education I'd not say there's a huge lack, but the executives at the top must adapt, fast, faster - NOW!

I agree, we have tremendous talent here and still having locally one of the top 4-year degree granting art schools [[College for Creative Studies - who btw remain in city of Detroit having recently expanded their campus).

IMO, the problem is economy based, not lack of creativity and talent. There are creatives across the country who come from Michigan, forced to leave due to lack of work... And yet there are many of us who have stayed, having adapted to the changing industry.

More people who go into the business [[be it multi-media graphics, advertising, web or transportation design) get out of dodge [[pardon the pun) asap... or they are doing other things and have learned to be very diverse and adaptable. These agencies and vendors must be more adaptable too. Or they will go under, one by one.

These fiscal shake outs have broad ramifications including revenue loss to local printers and distributors, post-production and independents who rely [[or once did) on getting residual work from the big-foot agencies. In the hey day it was an involved chain or services which has shrunk greatly since the early 90s...

Ah.... to think back on what it once was up on advertising row [[Northwestern Hwy where in the hayday hosted a few agencies including a Campbell Ewald office, MARS Advertising and Doner etc. ETC.) Or along Big Beaver in Troy. Or downtown Detroit agencies large and mid sized of the the 90's.

Well it's a new day! Adapt or perish is the pragmatic tone.

The giddy, back-slapping adcraft page shuffling, award-show casing, big-board room, power-point-clicking, long-term client, get paid - guaranteed ROI, days are somewhat over... or at least they have adapted to those players who plan to stay around!

The new or should we say emerging er' "agency" zeitgeist and world view will have to shift emphasis from manufacturing to perhaps more service industry? Federal work perhaps? LOL!

Michigan's ad agencies and creative job shops must adapt to a leaner market and stop with the one-big-client thinking!

Originally Posted by Patrick

I have heard some "creatives" from the coasts say that detroit has a huge lack of creative talent but I disagree with that. Can anyone elaborate on the level of creativity in Metro Detroit, at least from an ad point of view?

**Zacha341** · June-22-10, 08:13 AM

Yep, it is deep. You speak like someone from the business. The ripple effect in incredible. I recall the night shift days when business was so good you could get a production hack night shift job doing mechanicals while going to school in the day. Those days are over. What little work left is all done during the day, or salaried staff are work half the night without OT.

Like I said, they [[Doner) should have seen the hand writing... it had to be less of a shock then CE loosing Chevy!

Originally Posted by leland_palmer

That is pretty shot sighted on your part. Things like this don't happen in a vacuum. What about the the people that do business with companies that do business with a Japanese auto firm? Like say post houses which are already reeling from the lost of BBDO Detroit and GM taking their accounts out of state.

You would have thought that they would have begun to diversify once they lost all of that May Company business. They had too many eggs in once basket back then.