Minneapolis About to Surpass Detroit as Midwest's #2 Metro Economy

**Novine** · June-18-10, 05:58 PM

No surprise when you look at how Minneapolis works as a region.

http://technologyandthecity.blogspot...etroit-as.html

**Patrick** · June-18-10, 06:51 PM

I thought this happened a long time ago. It's not like we are in some contest to be the biggest economy around. The people in SE Michigan will survive and prosper again in the future.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-18-10, 07:02 PM

Comparing MPS/St Paul to a Detroit of 2008 is hardly a fair comparison. 2008 was easily Metro Detroit's worst year, and they were still billions short. Having been to MPS St. Paul I am kind of surprised by this. Yes it seems to be a healthier city, but it is MUCH smaller of a metropolis. When you add in the part of Detroit that don't count [[Windsor) in the official economy stats, ours is much bigger.

You can only rely on big box jobs from Target, Best Buy, and 3 M for so long. I'm sure 3 m is shrinking too as their manufacturing base goes overseas.

**Novine** · June-18-10, 10:11 PM

Isn't that doubly-damning when a smaller metro area can generate more economic impact?

**313WX** · June-19-10, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Comparing MPS/St Paul to a Detroit of 2008 is hardly a fair comparison. 2008 was easily Metro Detroit's worst year, and they were still billions short. Having been to MPS St. Paul I am kind of surprised by this. Yes it seems to be a healthier city, but it is MUCH smaller of a metropolis. When you add in the part of Detroit that don't count [[Windsor) in the official economy stats, ours is much bigger.

You can only rely on big box jobs from Target, Best Buy, and 3 M for so long. I'm sure 3 m is shrinking too as their manufacturing base goes overseas.

They probably said the same about us when it comes to the auto companies.

On the other hand, people are still shopping at Target/Best Buy and people still use 3M products on a regular basis. When's the last time this nation in general has been open to the big 3 and their products?

**DetroitPlanner** · June-19-10, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

They probably said the same about us when it comes to the auto companies.

On the other hand, people are still shopping at Target/Best Buy and people still use 3M products on a regular basis. When's the last time this nation in general has been open to the big 3 and their products?

The thing is that with retailers once they reach a saturation point they cannot sustain themselves. They become difficult to steer through rough waters when they are huge. These rough waters can come in the form of new technologies or changes in consumer tastes that are hard to satisfy when one realizes that they are stuck with 25,000 outdated televisions.

bartock · June-19-10, 11:44 AM

Wondering how this was determined. Wasn't there a recent article, actually a positive one, about the Detroit region indicating that soon Ann Arbor will soon be considered part of Metro Detroit [[MSA - it did not say why)?

That would obviously change the economic numbers [[and add 350,000 people). Windsor economy depends heavily on ours and that never gets counted, either. Could also make a case for Toledo...

According to Wikipedia, Metro Detroit CSA [[which the above study mentioned metro, so I assume it wasn't counted) includes Ann Arbor, and is 5,350 some square miles. Minneapolis-St. Paul's MSA is like 1,000 square miles larger than even that. Perhaps I'm overreaching, just a thought. I'm no economist.

**econ expat** · June-19-10, 12:14 PM

Why not add Toledo? Flint? Saginaw? Lansing? ....
Eh Chicago's economy feeds into Milwaukee,
Cincinnati to Dayton, etc.

**wolverine** · June-19-10, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by econ expat

Why not add Toledo? Flint? Saginaw? Lansing? ....
Eh Chicago's economy feeds into Milwaukee,
Cincinnati to Dayton, etc.

And while you are at it, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo and Battle Creek right? Or do these belong to Chicago. Man, I hear a lot ridiculous crap on this website.

bartock · June-19-10, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Wondering how this was determined. Wasn't there a recent article, actually a positive one, about the Detroit region indicating that soon Ann Arbor will soon be considered part of Metro Detroit [[MSA - it did not say why)?

That would obviously change the economic numbers [[and add 350,000 people). Windsor economy depends heavily on ours and that never gets counted, either. Could also make a case for Toledo...

According to Wikipedia, Metro Detroit CSA [[which the above study mentioned metro, so I assume it wasn't counted) includes Ann Arbor, and is 5,350 some square miles. Minneapolis-St. Paul's MSA is like 1,000 square miles larger than even that. Perhaps I'm overreaching, just a thought. I'm no economist.

---------------------------

**Danny** · June-19-10, 01:52 PM

Regionalization make Metro-Minneapolis/St. Paul where it is today. Detroit needs to hop in the regionalization band wagon or else die.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Because a major metropolis will not survive without regionalization for Neda's sake.

**casscorridor** · June-19-10, 02:38 PM

If Detroit AND the state of Michigan embrace regionalism, I think it only makes sense that the core of the region, Detroit, will develop. Imagine what would happen if we built rail lines between shooting out from Detroit, on those already existing corridors, acting as both commuter and intercity rail lines. They all meet in Detroit, at the Michigan Central Station. A high-speed rail would compliment this station, traveling from Montreal, through Toronto, then to Windsor and Detroit, then off to Chicago and Milwaukee. Detroit would be at the center of that line. A line of metropolises rivaling that of the east coast. And it would be international as well. We can think beyond just Michigan and beyond the US. Canada and the US can work together, open the border and let people freely cross. Imagine walking across the bridge to Windsor. The barriers between people would be broken down. New-cross border relationships would emerge. Everyone forgets that the University of Windsor is right across the river. Imagine forming partnerships between University of Windsor and Wayne State University. There is so much potential for our region, I could go on forever, and I didn't even mention the fresh water seas.

**casscorridor** · June-19-10, 02:47 PM

And how could I forget our Airport. If only we could built a express rail line from Downtown, or even an express bus!!!!! Anything is better than what we have now. How can we ignore such a valuable asset? Our Airport is the top-rated airport in North America, yet there is no transit connection to the central city.

The airport has become a major hub, and delta's "Asian gateway." Why not open our doors to Asians, and all immigrants of the world, who want to move to the United States? Last I heard, there are millions. Give them a plot of land on the cheap, let them start businesses here, let them get citizenship. Watch neighborhoods revive, like what has been done in SW or in "Bangledesh town" that straddles Hamtramck and NoHam, or in Dearborn.

Rebrand Detroit as an international and global city. The New York of the 21st Century, the place where immigrants can start their life in North America. We have international cultural attractions, and international riverfront. We have existing and thriving immigrant neighborhoods. Why not expand on this? Recognize our strengths [[our diversity, our resilience, etc) not our weaknesses [[reliance on auto companies)? We have to think big.

bartock · June-19-10, 03:41 PM

The article cited says this about Minn-St. Paul - "the region's largest metro area is about to become more economically significant than the metro that used to be the car capital of the world."

My point was about the reality of the numbers, not the health of the economies. Clearly, that region has a healthier economy than this region at this time. Perhaps less so than a few months ago, but whatever. Overall, however, to me it seems ridiculous for Minnesota to make the claim above unless it is talking about health, not size, of economy [[or, in the case above, the US economy in the context of any region, whether situated next to another country or not). It wasn't meant as a vindication, just what I consider an absurd conclusion. Perhaps as absurd as my original post was, to some.

**oladub** · June-19-10, 04:22 PM

Most of Minneapolis is pretty safe. The crime rate is much lower than Detroit's. That is a starting point because to have a successful light rail line and a downtown that is full of people even at night like Minneapolis does, there can't be much crime.

Besides Target and Best Buy, the Twin Cities are a hub of the US grain industry and home of high tech manufacturers 3M, Medtronic, and St. Jude. Target took over the J.L. Hudson company many years ago.

**econ expat** · June-19-10, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

The article cited says this about Minn-St. Paul - "the region's largest metro area is about to become more economically significant than the metro that used to be the car capital of the world."

My point was about the reality of the numbers, not the health of the economies. Clearly, that region has a healthier economy than this region at this time. Perhaps less so than a few months ago, but whatever. Overall, however, to me it seems ridiculous for Minnesota to make the claim above unless it is talking about health, not size, of economy [[or, in the case above, the US economy in the context of any region, whether situated next to another country or not). It wasn't meant as a vindication, just what I consider an absurd conclusion. Perhaps as absurd as my original post was, to some.

Your post did not seem absurd [[or ridiculous crap) to me, the claim by Minneapolis on the other hand....
But what fun, we pissed someone off.
2 points for you, 2 points for me.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-19-10, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Besides Target and Best Buy, the Twin Cities are a hub of the US grain industry and home of high tech manufacturers 3M, Medtronic, and St. Jude. Target took over the J.L. Hudson company many years ago.

Actually Target was started by Dayton-Hudson. For those of you who think that Minneapolis/St. Paul is any less fragmented than Detroit, then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. It also has more freeway miles per person than any other city that I have ever been in. The downtown streets are dead, mostly due to the habitrail tubes that have turned it into one giant indoor privatized shopping mall.

**iheartthed** · June-19-10, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Actually Target was started by Dayton-Hudson. For those of you who think that Minneapolis/St. Paul is any less fragmented than Detroit, then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. It also has more freeway miles per person than any other city that I have ever been in. The downtown streets are dead, mostly due to the habitrail tubes that have turned it into one giant indoor privatized shopping mall.

Actually, it was started before Dayton's and Hudson's merged. So it was started by Dayton's.

**oladub** · June-20-10, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Actually Target was started by Dayton-Hudson. For those of you who think that Minneapolis/St. Paul is any less fragmented than Detroit, then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. It also has more freeway miles per person than any other city that I have ever been in. The downtown streets are dead, mostly due to the habitrail tubes that have turned it into one giant indoor privatized shopping mall.

I disagree. I have two kids living in Minneapolis so I visit there often. Minneapolis is many times more vibrant than Detroit although it doesn't surpass Toronto. Downtown is teaming with people even late at night, high rise condos are springing up all around downtown, the stadiums all have light rail access as do the airport and Mall of America. Downtown Detroit used to have shopping too but Minneapolis keeps expanding it's downtown merchants and hosts major corporate headquarters. Suburbanites hop on the light rail and go downtown for an evening game then have a few at downtown bars before heading back to the burbs. Minneapolis has a long winter though. Hence, the tubes that connect all of downtown and two stadiums so pedestrians can walk all around downtown without a jacket. Rochester MN also has those to connect downtown with all it's hospitals. If you don't want to take freeways, Minneapolis has great bicycling facilities. My son even bicycles downtown to work all winter.

http://www.metrotransit.org/

**Novine** · June-21-10, 10:03 AM

Minneapolis also has a regional tax-sharing system with the suburbs. Each year, a certain amount of tax dollars from new growth is redistributed to communities that have less. This has helped to turn around inner-ring suburbs that are struggling with legacy costs, redevelopment, etc. When this program was started, it was mostly the high-growth suburbs that were sharing the tax dollars. But over time, Minneapolis has become a donor city due to increases in value of commercial and industrial property. The Minneapolis region realized that none of the communities were going to prosper if the inner core of the region was in a constant state of decline. Based on what's worked in Minneapolis and what hasn't worked in Detroit, it sounds like they made the right call.

**Detroitnerd** · June-21-10, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Minneapolis also has a regional tax-sharing system with the suburbs. Each year, a certain amount of tax dollars from new growth is redistributed to communities that have less. This has helped to turn around inner-ring suburbs that are struggling with legacy costs, redevelopment, etc. When this program was started, it was mostly the high-growth suburbs that were sharing the tax dollars. But over time, Minneapolis has become a donor city due to increases in value of commercial and industrial property. The Minneapolis region realized that none of the communities were going to prosper if the inner core of the region was in a constant state of decline. Based on what's worked in Minneapolis and what hasn't worked in Detroit, it sounds like they made the right call.

Shhhh! No revenue sharing! We don't want to pay for anything! The fact that Detroit is a hellhole is Detroiters' faults and not our problem. Everything is fine here in metro Detroit! We'll build roads and the prosperity will follow.

Just repeat after me,
"It's 1963.
It's 1963
times infinity."

**Gistok** · June-21-10, 11:40 AM

Arguing over what someone stated in a blog...

So that means that this must be true....

Still wondering if Higgins Lake is still the "6th most beautiful lake in the world".... that's what their signs say... so it must be true...

**maxx** · June-21-10, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Shhhh! No revenue sharing! We don't want to pay for anything! The fact that Detroit is a hellhole is Detroiters' faults and not our problem. Everything is fine here in metro Detroit! We'll build roads and the prosperity will follow.

Just repeat after me,
"It's 1963.
It's 1963
times infinity."

Revenoo sharing? AIn't that soshulism?

"We'll build roads and prosperity will follow."

Someone has watched "Field of Dreams" one too many times.

**rb336** · June-21-10, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Wondering how this was determined. Wasn't there a recent article, actually a positive one, about the Detroit region indicating that soon Ann Arbor will soon be considered part of Metro Detroit [[MSA - it did not say why)?

The mayor or some AA city official got in trouble/got support in about equal numbers a few years ago when he/she said that AA should stop pretending that it wasn't part of Metro Detroit

**BVos** · June-23-10, 09:21 PM

Gotta agree with Gistok here. Where is there anything listing the credibility for whomever the quasi-anonymous person is behind this blog?

Having said that, I did live in Mpls for 5 years and their entire regional economy has been and remains way healthier and way more diverse than Detroit's. It's way more than retail, 3M and medical devices. Some of the top advertising, architecture, law and other professional firms in the country can be found in Mpls and St. Paul and there are so many other significant areas of the Twin Cities economy beyond that. There isn't the suburban/city divide and hate like there is here and its residents have one of the highest average levels of education in the U.S. I could go on and on, but I'll close with that I view the blog suspiciously but wouldn't doubt if it did have an element of truth to it.