Atheist Roll Call

gdogslim · February-02-11, 12:09 PM

So an atheist is more dogmatic, a fence sitter who needs to see the proof, more of a politically correct person who doesn't want to make anyone mad at them.
Kind of like the joke, What is the difference between ignorance and apathy?
- I don't know and I don't care.
I think everyone who is religious goes through a process at some point of questioning their religion.

And an atheist is the belief system that there are for certain no gods.
If something cannot be proved or disproved how can it be a fact or truism?
I also don't think they are mutually exclusive beliefs.

Think of it this way for a second, If you fad a crystal ball with nothing in it, a vacuum, could something be created inside that ball, [[even over billions of years)? - No
Or if the universe is and endless infinite expanse of 'matter', where did that 'matter' come from?
It had to have come from somewhere, right?
Some people say the big bang caused the universe, OK, could be.
But the question still sits, How was the matter created that caused the big bang to happen?
Was it G O D ? Allah, Moses, Superman?
You can't create something out of nothing. The law of conservation of mass states that matter can not be created or destroyed, although it can change form.

**Zacha341** · February-02-11, 01:59 PM

I'm with you.... LOL!

Originally Posted by Lowell

I'm in a foxhole right now and I can't find any atheists here.

**maxx** · February-02-11, 02:49 PM

gdog: But the question still sits, How was the matter created that caused the big bang to happen? Was it G O D ? Allah, Moses, Superman?

Why is magic the only alternative? And what created your god? But, of course, true believers, use special pleading for their god. It makes more sense to me to say that at the subatomic level, matter/energy is eternal. Most believers are more concerned with their eternal reward than how everything was created. It's childish to think that anyone deserves to live forever, just as it is a perversion of justice to talk about an eternal fiery punishment.

**maxx** · February-02-11, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

An atheist is sure there is no god. An agnostic has doubts but thinks that the existance of god can't be proven one way or another.

If your doubt includes the possibility that gods exist, what is this based on?

**sturge** · February-02-11, 03:40 PM

As for creating something from nothing, there's work on that: http://www.futurity.org/science-tech...-from-nothing/

**Pam** · February-02-11, 06:47 PM

If your doubt includes the possibility that gods exist, what is this based on?

If you are admitting you don't know the answer then you can't rule anything out.

**Jimaz** · February-02-11, 07:36 PM

You guys might appreciate RationalWiki. I ran across it while looking up something mathematical but it covers other things discussed here. The writers seem to have a good sense of humor unless the subject is technical.

From the mathematical paradoxes article:

This article or section is [[sadly) a serious treatment of the subject matter.

Unlike most of RationalWiki, it lacks sarcasm, satire, or humor in general.

**maxx** · February-03-11, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Pam

If you are admitting you don't know the answer then you can't rule anything out.

Yes, but do you see a difference between the likelihood that matter/energy has always existed at some level and the likelihood that supernatural invisible people exist? Which is more likely to be true?

**maxx** · February-03-11, 10:36 AM

Jimaz:
Thanks for the link. But if they plan to convince the true believers, and I don't think they do, then they should keep their explanations very short with some sort of disclaimer that devils won't fly out of their computer and attack anyone if they read the info.

[For anyone's info, Cervantes described this belief among the illiterates of his time in "Don Quixote". ]

**Pam** · February-03-11, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by maxx

Yes, but do you see a difference between the likelihood that matter/energy has always existed at some level and the likelihood that supernatural invisible people exist? Which is more likely to be true?

They both sound pretty unlikely to me.

**maxx** · February-03-11, 12:21 PM

All things start out small. Physicists have been discovering tinier and tinier particles which make up subatomic particles. If someone wants to believe that some supernatural entity represents the energy source from which the first particles arose, it is still unlikely and has nothing to do with the personal god most people worship.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-particles-rea
"...At the LEP collider at the European particle physics laboratory CERN, millions of Z bosons--the particles that mediate neutral weak interactions--were produced and their mass was very accurately measured. The Standard Model of particle physics predicts the mass of the Z boson, but the measured value differed a little. This small difference could be explained in terms of the time the Z spent as a virtual top quark if such a top quark had a certain mass. When the top quark mass was directly measured a few years later at the Tevatron collider at Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory near Chicago, the value agreed with that obtained from the virtual particle analysis, providing a dramatic test of our understanding of virtual particles.

Thus virtual particles are indeed real and have observable effects that physicists have devised ways of measuring. Their properties and consequences are well established and well understood consequences of quantum mechanics..."

**rb336** · February-03-11, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by gdogslim

I do have a question though.
What is the difference between agnosticism and atheism

That's a good question. Literally speaking agnostic comes from the negation of gnostic which means having knowledge. Therefore an agnostic can be a fervent believer who makes no claims at having knowledge of god or an atheist who claims to have no knowledge of god. All atheists are agnostics. There is not one that I have met or read who claims knowledge that there is no god.

an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god. You are probably an atheist regarding Shiva or Zeus or Odin. If someone answers the question "do you believe in god?" with a "no" that person is an atheist. they don't "believe there is no god" they simply have a lack of belief in god. Some atheists believe there is no god, some are militant about it. Some atheists don't believe and don't care if there is or isn't. most of those some call "militant atheists" are militant not about their lack of faith, but in their desire to not have religion shoved down their throats at every turn and to keep, as jefferson said, a "wall of seperation" between church and state.

**maxx** · February-03-11, 06:58 PM

A picture is worth a thousand words. This one explains quite succintly the fact that as human knowledge advances, the gods recede .
http://www.irreligion.org/wp-content..._7875079_n.jpg

**canuck** · February-03-11, 11:55 PM

Nothing deader than a dead atheist. Not so sure about an agnostic stiff though!? But a dead believer is definitely kicking about somewheres...

**Pam** · February-04-11, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

Nothing deader than a dead atheist. Not so sure about an agnostic stiff though!? But a dead believer is definitely kicking about somewheres...

I don't think beliefs change what happens to you after death. Either we all go someplace or we all don't.
[[I'm leaning toward we all don't, which is ok with me. Eternal life sounds boring.)

**Big Dog** · February-04-11, 08:43 AM

To an unbeliever, it's all foolishness, but to a believer, it's the greatest thing.

**maxx** · February-04-11, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

To an unbeliever, it's all foolishness, but to a believer, it's the greatest thing.

Religion is mostly emotional, very little rationalism. So why did your god give you a brain anyway, if all you do with it is parrot stone age beliefs?