Downtown Parking Tax

[DetroitDad]

I keep hearing and reading that new urbanists did well because they didn't reject the car, they just disciplined it. With that in mind;

Why don't we have a parking tax in this city? Or, maybe at least a surface lot tax for all un-landscaped surface parking lots. These lots have a negative impact on the city, cost millions in tax dollars over time, can be an eyesore, reduce foot traffic [[vitality), and are often viewed as more valuable than buildings or parks.

Many other cities have actually done this with their stadium and theater districts. Sandusky, Ohio has a huge tax for parking at their amusement parks and hotels [[all viewed as a hidden tax on tourism), as do several cities in California. I can't imagine that many people not going to games or concerts because of a slight increase in surface lot fees. It could be tied in with income for pay lots or garages and landscaped lots, or free lots could be exempt.

[CLAUDE G]

I personally feel the city has enough taxes, inspection fees, and other hidden fees that this is not necessary.

Its bad enough that when you go downtown, the meter maids literally wait next to your parking meter just waiting for it to expire so they can write you a ticket.

Another tax on surface lots is just going to increase the prices we pay when we have to park.

One of the best ways to increase tax revenue is to lower taxes in certain areas. Encourage people to move back into the city or relocate their business, and now the city will have the oppertunity to collect a reduced tax rate from someone who was not paying any tax before.

[Russix]

You need to provide a viable alternative first before you can levy a Luxury tax. Our lack of options means we're constantly in direct competition with the surrounding auto-centric suburban and exurban areas. I think surface lot parking should ultimately be banned as it is destructive to neighboring property values and serves only a temporal purpose.
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[DetroitDad]

A tax on unlandscaped surface lots... basically this is a city beautification idea. Some of our Downtown lots, like the ones around Nick's Gaslight, detract from the city.

[DetroitDad]

You need to provide a viable alternative first before you can levy a Luxury tax. Our lack of options means we're constantly in direct competition with the surrounding auto-centric suburban and exurban areas. I think surface lot parking should ultimately be banned as it is destructive to neighboring property values and serves only a temporal purpose.
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They didn't in those other cities in California and Ohio. This is generally viewed as a tourist/tourism tax.

[Russix]

What is there a West Sandusky, Ohio with a competing Cedar Point? California is well developed with transit. Since we can't compete with other cities, we can only compete with the surrounding area, and since we haven't done anything to give ourselves a competive edge, we can't shoo away people with a parking tax, they don't charge one in Oakland County, -1 Detroit.

[Meddle]

Why don't we have a parking tax in this city?

You do. Collected by these folks http://www.detroitmi.gov/Departments...8/Default.aspx or they tow your car.

[DetroitDad]

No, no, no... just for the slummy surface lots... come on guys!

This would be taxed: Click HERE! and HERE!

This would not be taxed; Click HERE and HERE!

If they want to run a slummy parking lot and visitors like them; then fine! They have that right. However, unlandscaped lots have negative consequences [[broken window theory), just like strip clubs, night clubs, bars, liquor stores, etc..

[3rdDegreeBurns]

DetroitDad,

I'm with you. I've often thought that we should tax surface parking and vacant lots in business districts at a much higher rate than we currently do. The current tax structure provides an incentive to keep land in these uses. We want property owners to use their land in more productive ways and one way to do that is to penalize those who don't through higher taxes.

I would rather see some of these lots become available for other uses, or even revert to the city/county in tax foreclosure than remain as they are. Would this result in a shortage of parking downtown? Hardly. We have several monstrous structures that don't seem to ever be full. If the market demanded more then I'm sure someone would seize that opportunity and build yet another.

[Novine]

"I've often thought that we should tax surface parking and vacant lots in business districts at a much higher rate than we currently do."

State law doesn't permit this. Land has to be taxed uniformly.

[DC48080]

These lots have a negative impact on the city, cost millions in tax dollars over time.

Just how do these lots "cost millions in tax dollars over time"? The lot owners pay property taxes on them

[DC48080]

I would rather see some of these lots become available for other uses, or even revert to the city/county in tax foreclosure than remain as they are.

Those lots reverting to the city or county in a tax foreclosure would do absolutely nothing to help anyone. The city/county cannot even maintain the multitude of properties they currently have. As long as the owners of the lots are paying their property taxes you have money coming in to the city/county. If the lots were foreclosed upon you would have nothing coming in and would have a neglected weed-choked empty lot that looks worse than it does now.

It isn't as though there are developers lined up waiting to build office buildings, stores, apartments, condos etc on these parcels. You would just end up with land that continues to sit empty and would provide nothing.

[ndavies]

You all fail to realize that consumers make buying decisions based on price. All you are doing is giving consumers one more reason not to come downtown.

Any taxes placed on parking lot attendants will be directly transferred to the users of those lots in the form of higher parking rates.

More taxes and fees will be just another reason for consumers to head to the big free parking lots of the suburbs. More taxes just drive away the people with money who do have a choice to where they work and shop. The city already has a huge number of deterrents, why keep adding more?

If you want to get rid of the parking lots downtown, you have to get rid of the need to have them. Taxing them doesn't fix the need. It you want them improved, You need to figure out how you can make the owners more profitable so they have extra money to invest in their properties. You then need to use blight laws and social pressure to get them to fix up the properties. They can either pay the money to the blight court or they can spend the money on improving the value of their lot. A flat tax just punishes the lot owners who would do the right things.

[jams]

We want property owners to use their land in more productive ways and one way to do that is to penalize those who don't through higher taxes.

So are you going to ask a parking lot owner to build a building that you will rent and start a business?

This would not be a tax on tourists, but a tax on hardpressed, low-payed employees of those establishments tourists visit once in a while.

[ghettopalmetto]

It also doesn't help when you have the City creating enormous market distortions by subsidizing new parking lots, such as the one created through demolition of the Madison-Lenox.

[Russix]

State law doesn't permit this. Land has to be taxed uniformly.

Is it possible to outright ban them? I propose a ban on all surface parking anywhere in downtown and along all major arterial roads.

[DC48080]

Is it possible to outright ban them? I propose a ban on all surface parking anywhere in downtown and along all major arterial roads.

Yeah, that will help the existing businesses and help to attract new ones. Everybody knows that businesses don't really need convenient inexpensive parking to survive.

[ghettopalmetto]

Yeah, that will help the existing businesses and help to attract new ones. Everybody knows that businesses don't really need convenient inexpensive parking to survive.

Last I checked, CARS don't purchase goods and services.

PEOPLE, on the other hand, do.

Detroit has more convenient and inexpensive parking than any other city of comparable size--or half the size, for that matter. Clearly, that approach hasn't done dick to help businesses.

[esp1986]

Let's just give people more reasons not to do business downtown. Taxes are a major deterrent to doing business downtown. From city both employer and employee taxes to property taxes that don't exist in most suburbs. In some cases of an empty lot, the money collected often does not even cover property taxes. So yeah, lets just throw another one on there.

[DC48080]

Last I checked, CARS don't purchase goods and services.

PEOPLE, on the other hand, do.

Detroit has more convenient and inexpensive parking than any other city of comparable size--or half the size, for that matter. Clearly, that approach hasn't done dick to help businesses.

Are you really serious with that statement??

People who drive those cars want a convenient place to park while visiting an office, store, restaurant or bar. Most people would rather park in a surface parking lot than pay more and have the hassle of long slow lines in a parking structure.

[ghettopalmetto]

Are you really serious with that statement??

People who drive those cars want a convenient place to park while visiting an office, store, restaurant or bar. Most people would rather park in a surface parking lot than pay more and have the hassle of long slow lines in a parking structure.

Yes, I'm dead serious with that statement. You're thinking strictly in terms of "cars", vis-a-vis "people". Go to any successful, thriving city on earth, and I bet your ass you won't see nearly as many surface parking lots as you do in Detroit. IT. DOESN'T. WORK. It hasn't worked for the past 65 years, and it's not going to work anytime soon. Please take your ideas to the 1950s, where they will receive much greater reception.

Downtown Detroit isn't suffering for want of parking. It's suffering for lack of reasons to park there.

[DC48080]

Downtown Detroit isn't suffering for want of parking. It's suffering for lack of reasons to park there.

So take away the places for people to park downtown and then if a reason comes along to park there, there will be nowhere to park.

Brilliant!

So, what do you propose to do with the land occupied by the surface parking lots once you have banned them?

[ghettopalmetto]

So take away the places for people to park downtown and then if a reason comes along to park there, there will be nowhere to park.

Brilliant!

So, what do you propose to do with the land occupied by the surface parking lots once you have banned them?

Please don't put words in my mouth. I have said nothing of the sort of banning surface parking lots. On the other hand, people seem to be able to function just fine in Philadelphia and Chicago without having a surface parking lot occupying every-other block. Maybe its because those people get off their lazy asses once in a while and don't expect a free parking spot to magically show up at the front door of every building they might patronize.

But why not take your idea to its logical termination, and demolish EVERYTHING in Downtown Detroit to create a vast lagoon of parking. Explain your idea how this endless sea of surface parking lots is going to help the City of Detroit.

If you want parking everywhere, you already have the suburbs. Why you insist on foisting your dream of endless acreages of asphalt upon an urban fabric is beyond me. I guess Troy is your idea of a world-class city, huh?

[DC48080]

Don't you think that the folks who own the parking lots in Detroit would jump at the chance to cash in and sell their land to a developer if one was to come along? Well, nobody is lining up to build anything downtown.

At least as long as the owners of those lots are paying taxes the city has some revenue coming in.

The few small businesses as well as the major ones that are left downtown need convenient parking for their employees and customers. Let's not add another reason to the long list of reasons to not come downtown.

Right now it is easy; jump in the car, drive downtown, park in front of or very close to your destination, go in and spend money, go home. Very easy. If you force people to pay $10 or more to park in a garage and wait in line to get out of said garage see what will happen to the businesses that are left down there.

[jams]

But why not take your idea to its logical termination, and demolish EVERYTHING in Downtown Detroit to create a vast lagoon of parking. Explain your idea how this endless sea of surface parking lots is going to help the City of Detroit.

Explain how those seas of parking will become viable buildings with businesses in them.

I've watched Downtown become a ghost-town over the last 30 years, I still work there, but I remember crowds on the streets everyday, not just festival days.