Help Historic Fort Wayne!

[SUBVET]

I understand that there are many needs that require attention with the City budget. However, if you are interested, please read below a message regarding Historic Fort Wayne Detroit. More information will be following, should you be interested in helping pursue a more positive end to this historic site.

"Dear Historic Fort Wayne Coalition Membership,

This is a preliminary note for a message from Tom Berlucchi, Chairman Historic Fort Wayne Coalition. His note will be forthcoming upon completion.

The situation with the status of Historic Fort Wayne is tremendously precarious due to the current proposed Detroit City Council budget and Mayor Bing's veto. The budget recommendations, as written, will strip enough money from the Department of Parks and Recreation to result in the closing of Historic Fort Wayne.

Within the Chairman's message will be information for you to contact the Detroit City Council to advocate on behalf of the Department of Parks and Recreation. Speaking for the Chairman at this point, I can only urge you to contact via phone, via email and to disburse this information to anyone willing to advocate for Historic Fort Wayne. Preservationist, living historians - it does not matter. Please forward the following Chairman's message to your respective groups to express your concern in this matter.

PLEASE - DO NOT HESITATE in voicing your opinion about the proposed budget cuts for Parks and Recreation that may result in the closing of Historic Fort Wayne. I cannot express the urgency or the need for your support in this matter whether you are an active member of the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition or not.

I am sorry to have to write to you regarding this at this time. I will submit to you the Chairman's message as soon as I receive it and look forward to your support with this.

Regards,

Thomas Steele
Secretary
Historic Fort Wayne Coalition"

[Detroitnerd]

It's already pretty much closed. The only way I can seem to get in anymore is by lying that I'm there for "soccer" and then touring the ruins.

[Blueidone]

That is not true at all....been there several times with my grandchildren. It is important not to lose this piece of Detroit history. Yes, the hours are limited because it is run totally by volunteers. I happen to know many of them. They are hard-working, dedicated indivuals who do the best they can to preserve the fort.

I don't know if a non-Detroiter's opinion will help, but I will offer it to whoever will listen.

[PlymouthRes]

I am not a bit suprised at your reply there, D'nerd, as it is indicative of the type of attitude that prevails about the fort. Any other city, or its residents, would give their left arm for a place with the historic value that Fort Wayne has, yet we continue to hear nothing but complaining and uninformed comments about its condition.

If you really had a desire to do something about the place, and preserve the heritage it possess, you would have joined the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition and put some of your sweat into the place. But you haven't done that, have you?

Instead, you have disparaged the restoration efforts of an entire group of people [[207) who are volunteering to make a difference down there. The Coalition, for your information, has contributed over 10,000 hours of volunteer time and upwards of $35,000 over the last 3 years toward the restoration and upkeep of the Fort. Considering you seem to only be interested in "ruins", have you noticed the tremendous volunteer effort to restore the Barracks Building windows [[of which we have completed almost a dozen), or the four casemate cover that were authentically restored [[$2,500/casemate)? Have you noticed the Commandants House fascia restoration, or the Span-Am era Guard house porch and rear stockade fence restoration [[~$5,000)? I didn't think you did, as you seem to have ignored all of that.

Have you ever come to one of our events and actually paid to get in [[which would be a contribution, if you know what I mean), or checked out the website to see where you could donate or what upcoming events you could come to support us on? Although I've been on site for just about every event for the last three years, I've seemed to miss meeting you. And I've met a LOT of people from DetroitYes [[because I ALWAYS ask), I'd wager to say at least two dozen. But I guess you missed out on that opportunity to help out, too?

Who do you think cuts and maintains the grass to the tune of $3,300 /year?

When you lie to get in, you avoid PAYING to see the "ruins". If you really wanted a tour, there are a couple of ways to do so, legitimately. First would be to Google "Fort Wayne", which would take you [[first pick) to the HFWC site. There you could have arrainged and PAID for a tour with one of our historical interpreters, and actually learned something beneficial instead of spewing your non-informed statement. Ignorance at it's finest, I guess.

When and if you do find the time or the desire to actually do something that will contribute to our effort, feel free to contact me and I'll try to arrainge something for you that would resemble a real historic experience rather than what a walk by ruin visit would reveal.

PlymouthRes
Vice Chairman, HFWC

[Stosh]

Res, great job in laying it all out there.

What exactly is the shortfall with the budget cuts at the Fort?

[SUBVET]

Here is the message from the Chairman of the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition, Thomas Berlucchi.

Within the message is information with which one can send along an email to the City Council voicing discontent with the budget cuts proposed to be levied on the Department of Parks and Recreation. Also, at the conclusion of the message are several A.P. articles regarding the budget cuts and amounts being discussed at the special meeting tomorrow.

Regards,

Thomas Steele
Secretary
Historic Fort Wayne Coalition

"Good Evening to All Members,

As Chairman of our Organization I am asking you to assist our partners the City of Detroit Recreation Department in their struggle to maintain an efficient operational budget. On Friday, June 4 at 7:00 pm the Detroit City Council will be voting on over-riding Mayor Bing’s veto of the City Council Budget. I have petitioned the City Clerk’s office today to be allowed to address the Council at this meeting pertaining their purposed budget cuts to the Recreation Department and how it affects the operation of Historic Fort Wayne.

I am asking you all to contact the City Council Members to consider that their budget recommendations to cut another $1 million from the Mayor’s budget for the Recreation Department will have adverse effects on many programs provided through the existing Recreation Centers and Historic Fort Wayne. This additional cut to this department will greatly affect the standards of programming for the kids of the City of Detroit. Since FY 2004 the Recreation Department has experienced close to 1/3 of it operational budget to date declined.

The vote on Friday will determine the fate of Fort Wayne. I have spent the last 9 years working with the different City partners to keep the Fort operating to achieve sustainable levels of revenue. The Historic Fort Wayne Coalition was founded to keep the Fort open, operating safely for visitors through proper restoration and preservation programs and to bring first class events to the site. The City of Detroit Recreation Department was given site control without additional budgetary funding for the site. They have relied on us to assist them in keeping the Fort operational and providing a positive image for the City. We have accomplished those tasks given many difficult times. I have attached below for you news reports and a statement of what the City Council Budget will do to our partner but I also want you to see the cuts that are being proposed to other City of Detroit Departments. I do not live in the City of Detroit but I am proud to tell people I am associated with the City of Detroit through Historic Fort Wayne. I urge you all to contact City Council Members to deter them from over-riding the veto. The City Recreation Department cannot provide the programs to the kids of this City with the closing of two more recreation centers, cut back in additional educational programs, the loss of youth programming.

Remember, when the Fort was closed in 1991, it took until 2001 for us to get it back open! We need to voice our concerns to this issue with council even if you do not live in the City. We are committed to keeping open one of our State’s greatest historical gems- Historic Fort Wayne. Please step up and contact the Council and voice your concerns. Also please forward any of this information to anyone that you know.

HERE is the Link to City Council: http://www.detroitmi.gov/legislative_old/complaints/complaints.asp
This is an online form you’ll need to fill in. Be sure to fill in at least the spaces with text titles in red. In the column “Send Complaint To� please choose “All Council Persons.� In the next box below, “The Complaint is about� choose “Other� and then fill in your thoughts on closing Fort Wayne. Encourage them not to over-ride the Mayor’s veto. Let them know you want to see the Fort stay open!

Yours in the Fort,

Thomas G. Berlucchi
Chairman Historic Fort Wayne Coalition

__________________________________________________ ________________

DETROIT [[AP) -- Mayor Dave Bing has vetoed a proposed budget by the Detroit City Council. Bing says Wednesday in an e-mailed statement that the council's budget "would impose service cuts that run counter to the priorities of" his administration.
The council wants to cut $32 million more from the budget than Bing has recommended, including $6.7 million from police. General services also would have gotten $9 million less in funding than what Bing has proposed. The budget has to be approved by the start of the fiscal year July 1.


A super-majority of the 9-member council is needed to override Bing's veto.
Bing says his budget reduces a $300 million deficit to $85 million. A council analyst says that figure will be closer to $125 million.



Detroit Mayor Dave Bing has vetoed the Detroit City Council’s changes to his proposed budget.

Bing’s $2.9 billion budget, down from fiscal 2009-2010’s $3.7 billion budget, didn’t go far enough, the council said.

Bing said his budget cuts the city’s ongoing deficit to $85 million from more than $300 million. The council’s fiscal analyst says the number is closer to $125 million.

Bing said that the council’s proposed changes don’t line up with his administration’s priorities.

“Council’s budget would impose service cuts that run counter to the priorities of this administration, leaving me no choice but to exercise my veto power,� Bing wrote in a statement.

“I remain committed to cooperating with our City Council to attack our fiscal crisis however we must do so without compromising our ability to provide public safety, support job creation and maintain financial stability in the City of Detroit.�

The council can override Bing’s veto with a six-vote super-majority.



Detroit Mayor Dave Bing vetoed the City Council's 2010-11 budget on Wednesday, warning further cuts to the spending plan would jeopardize city services.

"Council's budget would impose service cuts that run counter to the priorities of this administration, leaving me no choice but to exercise my veto power," Bing said in a statement. "I remain committed to cooperating with our City Council to attack our fiscal crisis, however we must do so without compromising our ability to provide public safety, support job creation and maintain financial stability in the City of Detroit."
Bing, who presented his $3.1-billion proposed budget to the council on April 13, trimmed $101 million from the city's financial plan. The mayor insisted that his budget was a well thought out and strategic approach to addressing the fiscal instability that has long plagued the city.
Still, council members said Bing did not make deep enough cuts. The body approved its version of the budget on May 21, cutting an additional $31.8 million from what Bing proposed. On Wednesday, Bing exercised his line-item veto power for more than 65 items in the council's proposal.
The council, among other cuts, defunded the 311 call center, and reduced appropriations of $9.1 million from the General Services Department; $6.7 million from the police department; $3 million from the fire department; $2.39 million from the Department of Health and Wellness Promotion; $500,000 from the subsidy for the People Mover, and $216,000 in car stipends and cell phones.
Council members had anticipated a standoff with a Bing veto when it sent the budget back to the mayor last month.
In recent weeks, before and after the council sent its budget amendments back to the mayor, council President Pro Tem Gary Brown has said the council would have the votes to override a veto.
On Wednesday, Brown said he still planned to vote to override the veto, but didn't "have a sense of whether or not we have the votes."
He said the council's cuts are part of a four-year strategy to pay off the city's $124-million deficit, a figure projected by the council's fiscal analyst. He also said the council is willing to adjust the budget if the $40 million in revenues projected by the Bing administration are realized.
"We just don't think he cut [[the deficit) enough," Brown said. "The council is being a little more conservative in our approach."
In his veto letter to council, Bing charged that the body made the reductions with "no apparent rationale or substantive data."
"The items of greatest concern are the drastic reductions made by your honorable body in our public safety and frontline departments," he wrote. "The police and fire departments justifiably represent the largest portions of our budget... To compromise that at a time when we need it most undermines our basic responsibility and ignores our reality."
Administration officials said the council's cuts could require layoffs in the police and fire departments; the closure of some recreation centers, and the elimination of youth and senior programming.
Council is to hold a special session Friday to decide whether it will override the veto. It would need a super-majority of six votes to override any veto.

[Blueidone]

Bump from a Proud Supporter of Fort Wayne

[jjw]

This fort is the responsibility of the entire state of Michigan and how it got so dilapidated is a shame on the entire state. I was back last summer with friends from Baltimore and we were disgusted with what has occured there. Unbelievable.

[M CD M]

PlymouthRes,

I would've glady paid/donated for a guided tour of the fort and archives to further my research for my website.
I waited nearly 4 hours [[2 hours at the fort gate shack).
No Show, No call, No reply to my messages on here.
If you want to get the help to keep the fort open, Ignoring a patron is not a good start.

I'm not mad, Just my 2 cents. I still require a tour of the Fort.

[kraig]

Just got a call from someone that was at the Council Meeting. Council overrode the mayor's veto. He does have the option of submitting budget amendments.

[DetroitPole]

For years now I've attended the events at the Fort, paid for tours and parking, and talked it all up with my friends.
Something has always puzzled me, and bothered me, quite frankly. Why is the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition headquartered in Columbiaville, and not Detroit?? Historic Fort Wayne is an integral part of Southwest Detroit and there are plenty of historic buildings in the area that could use a tenant.

[Stosh]

For years now I've attended the events at the Fort, paid for tours and parking, and talked it all up with my friends.
Something has always puzzled me, and bothered me, quite frankly. Why is the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition headquartered in Columbiaville, and not Detroit?? Historic Fort Wayne is an integral part of Southwest Detroit and there are plenty of historic buildings in the area that could use a tenant.

My guess is that is where one of the Board members live at. They haven't the cash to pay for a building, I think. And buildings take heat and lights and other things... cash is hard to come by. If they were flush with cash they would not be worried...

[Crystal]

The Historic Fort Wayne Coalition is not headquartered in Columbiaville. Columbiaville is the address of the Coalition's resident agent.

[Detroitnerd]

I am not a bit suprised at your reply there, D'nerd, as it is indicative of the type of attitude that prevails about the fort. Any other city, or its residents, would give their left arm for a place with the historic value that Fort Wayne has, yet we continue to hear nothing but complaining and uninformed comments about its condition.

If you really had a desire to do something about the place, and preserve the heritage it possess, you would have joined the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition and put some of your sweat into the place. But you haven't done that, have you?

Instead, you have disparaged the restoration efforts of an entire group of people [[207) who are volunteering to make a difference down there. The Coalition, for your information, has contributed over 10,000 hours of volunteer time and upwards of $35,000 over the last 3 years toward the restoration and upkeep of the Fort. Considering you seem to only be interested in "ruins", have you noticed the tremendous volunteer effort to restore the Barracks Building windows [[of which we have completed almost a dozen), or the four casemate cover that were authentically restored [[$2,500/casemate)? Have you noticed the Commandants House fascia restoration, or the Span-Am era Guard house porch and rear stockade fence restoration [[~$5,000)? I didn't think you did, as you seem to have ignored all of that.

Have you ever come to one of our events and actually paid to get in [[which would be a contribution, if you know what I mean), or checked out the website to see where you could donate or what upcoming events you could come to support us on? Although I've been on site for just about every event for the last three years, I've seemed to miss meeting you. And I've met a LOT of people from DetroitYes [[because I ALWAYS ask), I'd wager to say at least two dozen. But I guess you missed out on that opportunity to help out, too?

Who do you think cuts and maintains the grass to the tune of $3,300 /year?

When you lie to get in, you avoid PAYING to see the "ruins". If you really wanted a tour, there are a couple of ways to do so, legitimately. First would be to Google "Fort Wayne", which would take you [[first pick) to the HFWC site. There you could have arrainged and PAID for a tour with one of our historical interpreters, and actually learned something beneficial instead of spewing your non-informed statement. Ignorance at it's finest, I guess.

When and if you do find the time or the desire to actually do something that will contribute to our effort, feel free to contact me and I'll try to arrainge something for you that would resemble a real historic experience rather than what a walk by ruin visit would reveal.

PlymouthRes
Vice Chairman, HFWC

Thanks for the long reply. Actually, I wasn't dodging paying. I was there to meet somebody who was touring the ruins, and was showing up to meet them in the parking lot. The people at the gate were uninformed, unhelpful, and so I finally changed my approach and told them that I was there for soccer and they let me in. That left a sour taste in my mouth, but that's the genesis of the comment that I made. I haven't "lied" repeated times to get in, I have only been surprised at how disorganized that place seems to be.

Hey, it's great that you're putting new windows and casements in. But I found some other stuff that disturbed me when I was there. The bell for old City Hall sitting out in the weather in the parking lot, and pieces of the huge statues that used to be on City Hall sitting out behind the fort in sections, becoming overgrown. My friend was like: Oh, great stewardship of Detroit history going on here.

Of course, I understand that you guys don't have funding. And I understand that my initial comment was flip and sarcastic and mostly untrue. So maybe I deserved that response. I'll try to come by for the flea market as a paying customer, OK?

[kryptonite]

I have considered contacting my congressman to see if the federal government could be petitioned to make Fort Wayne a national park/historic park whatever.

The fort has so much history that it's a shame it has not been preserved using federal funds. Granted federal money is scarce these days. But the city and state are worse. Other than Isle Royale and Sleeping Bear Dunes, there are not many Michigan sites that are part of the national park system. I have visited other historic parks in different states that were far less impressive than Fort Wayne.

What do Dyes people think about such an effort?

[PlymouthRes]

Stosh-
Sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread, but, as you can imagine, we’ve been a bit busy! Thanks for the contributions to this thread as well. It helps to know that at least some people are paying attention.
The shortfall that is predicted, as supported in the successive posts to the thread, is another $1 mil. This is on top of the already thin budget the Recreation Department was trying to operate under. They simply cannot afford to keep the utilities on [[~$250,00-$300,000/year). To say that they are not contributing at all is not true, as they have at least been responsible for those costs for the last few years.
As for our group, we operate on ~ $20,000/year, most of it from charging admissions for tours, revenue generated by gate fees and school education events that we hold. Almost 30% of that amount goes to Projects [[~$6,000/year), 50% to projects [[~$10,000/year) and the remainder goes to various events that we sponsor for kids who can’t afford to go to the types of events we normally hold. We have the good graces of the CoD Recreation department in being able to use Building 112B as our headquarters, but have our mail delivered to an address that we used when we filed for our 501c3. So, to settle a question, we are indeed located on site at Fort Wayne.
Sstshmoo-
Not sure what your problem is, but nice way to play “blame the victim�, dude. Below, please find D’Nerd’s original post, perhaps you missed it? I’ve taken the liberty to highlight his statement for you and my statement in the paragraph above [[and my reason for chiding him in the first place) as I’m not sure what your point is?
Here is his direct quote:
“It's already pretty much closed. The only way I can seem to get in anymore is by lying that I'm there for "soccer" and then touring the ruins.�
Apparently you would like me to somehow coddle him and tell him that his way of doing things is okay by me? I guess I question your logic. By the way, I’m glad that you caught the fact that I was “uninviting�. I guess I got my point across with you about not liking people who admit they have circumvented the system that we depend on for income. If you feel that to be unprofessional, you can stuff that too. I am a volunteer, and in no way claim to be some kind of “professional� at human relations. From what I’ve seen of some of your smart-assed comments, you could use an education in that department, too. As I mentioned, I’ve met just about every D’Yeser that has come to the Fort, and I’ve not met you as of yet, so I don’t see the “threat� of you not coming down as very valid. Since you had nothing to contribute about the origin of the thread and found only time to degrade what I said, even though I was clearly right, shows that your interest was not in the subject but in giving me a “lesson from Sstashmoo� in detente. I’ll pass on your method, thanks, and stick with my original comments.
In the end, even he apologized!
D’Nerd-
Sorry for the length of my posts, but I’m trying to give you as much information in regard to the place as possible. It is difficult to answer the questions asked in any shorter manner than this without telling the whole story. I was just attempting to be thorough.
Here is where I will apologize to you as you were obviously mistreated by the security guards at the gate. To begin with, the CoD Rec. Dept. is responsible for security. They hire and fire them at will, and often they are provided to the Fort with no input allowed by us[[HFWC). The security team that we had previously was on shift when the Historical Department was alleviated of over 90 pieces of its stained glass collection [[some as big as 4’ x 9’!), so you can plainly see that we are at a distinct disadvantage to that kind of “cooperation�. I can only say I’m sorry for their attitude.
Again, if you want a decent tour, use the method that I suggested. It should work.
Secondly, the overgrowth you saw was also the job of CoD General Services, who cut the grass once a month, if they even got there at all. That all changed in 2007, when we took over Groundskeeping. We have not allowed it to get that bad again, and do a decent if not very good job at keeping the place mowed and trimmed. After all, it is 93 acres!
Thirdly, the Historical Department is responsible for the upkeep and housing of the bell, not us. This is also something we have no say in. In their defense, you do realize that the city bell is made to sit outside, right? The verdigris that it has obtained defines its historic value and actually helps to retard the corrosion of the bell. The clapper, which is highly ornate and cast of fine bronze, is stored in a hermetically sealed bubble in the CRC, and I have heard that the MetalDoctor is fixing up a cradle to suspend the bell from once again. When that is done, it will be moved to a cement pad and covered with a small roof. That should assuage your fears in regard to that, I hope. This is also true for the gun tubes that are stored adjacent to the bell, so that should change shortly, too, if all goes well.
Lastly, it must have been a long time ago that you saw the Fort, as we moved those statues and the city hall cornerstone, plus various other City related stuff into the CRC back in 2007. All statues are now under cover and being maintained until they can be restored and reclaimed somewhere else in the City. Maybe when they turn the MCS into the new police department we can hoist them on top of there!

[PlymouthRes]

Krypto and jjw-
The Fort was once in the possession of the NPS and later under the State Park System. They both washed their hands of the place, finally working out a lease with the CoD [[~1975 or 1976). That was when the CoD and the Historical Society played well together. It has been a less than stellar relationship since then.
If you really want to help out, please start a letter writing campaign to release the funding that the County has been collecting from the millage it passed 20 some years ago on behalf of Fort Wayne and its upkeep. The story goes that we apparently have about $1.2 mil in an account somewhere in the County, but they keep using the excuse that the money from the initial account can’t be taken out because if they did that it would reduce the amount of interest they receive from that amount, which funds other budget items that they just can’t do without. I wish someone with some decent investigative skills could look into that, because access to that kind of cash we would insure that the place will never go away.
We also are working on another option, one which would give us a lease as in the one that was issued to the Eastern Market folks who refurbished the market sheds recently. With the cash mentioned above and a lease agreement in place, we could certainly make a better plea to the Council and the Mayor that we are able to step into the fiduciary position before closing should be an option.
We have other ideas as well. Like refurbishing one of the buildings on Officers Row and turning it into river front office space. Those funds could begin to help the Fort sustain itself.
Perhaps combining the Wayne County Mounted Division AND the Detriot Police Mounted Division, in a 1908 Stables building, on a site with 93 acres, would help in three ways: to combine those costs into one building that they are already maintaining; to centralize the “Wayne� County Mounted Patrol [[instead of being all the way out in Livonia) and provide an inadvertent security guard of sorts with their prescence.
The money saved from that venture alone would go a long way to helping offset other deficits within all of their collective budgets.
Just to let you know, we have had tours with both John Conyers staff and Carl Levin’s staff last summer. We spent $500 on presentation materials, had them sit through a twenty minute power point presentation and sent them all home with a copy of the book and a tour by the authors of the Arcaida book on Fort Wayne. They were appalled and promised to help, but we have been unable to move the needle as they have other pressing issues than Fort Wayne.

It can’t hurt to write on our behalf, and we appreciate any support you can give us. We are trying hard to make a difference, and every voice we can muster in our effort we welcome!

[SUBVET]

A quick clarification of the past ownership of Fort Wayne <Res, not to step on your toes>. Fort Wayne was not under the National Park Service or State Parks service.

The fort property was parceled off to the city of Detroit in a series of lease agreements as the Army centralized on the site. First in 1947 the gov't leased the star fort complex, then, I believe, in 1955 another portion of the complex. Not until 1973 did the gov't relinquish control of the rest of Fort Wayne when they finally demilitarized the site in 1973. After CoD took over, it was under Detroit Historical until 1991 when it was shutdown. The site was reopened, roughly, 2000/2001 currently under the Parks and Recreation Department.

I just wanted to clarify...mainly to keep up the hope that there IS always a possibility of Fed or State intervention on the site.

1) The corporate address of the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition is in Columbiaville as that was the record address of the secretary at the time of incorporation. I believe a 501[[c)3 requirement is that it has to be a physical address not a P.O. box.

Thank you to all who helped out with your comments and voices to City Council! I cannot express the gratitude that I have to all the Fort Wayne supporters that are out there!

Regards,
Subvet
Secretary
Historic Fort Wayne Coalition

[Crystal]

Subvet, I thought the Fort was owned by the National Park Service. That is not correct?

[Gistok]

Actually, many forumers have met PlymouthRes at FSC functions and most recently at the Forum picnic. He's smart, articulate and pasionate about saving Fort Wayne.

Sstashmoo... I'm assuming that [[based on some of your more flippant posts) it's unlikely that you'll ever show up at a DYES function...

[Toolbox]

Thanks for the long reply. Actually, I wasn't dodging paying. I was there to meet somebody who was touring the ruins, and was showing up to meet them in the parking lot. The people at the gate were uninformed, unhelpful, and so I finally changed my approach and told them that I was there for soccer and they let me in. That left a sour taste in my mouth, but that's the genesis of the comment that I made. I haven't "lied" repeated times to get in, I have only been surprised at how disorganized that place seems to be.

The security guards at Fort Wayne are unhelpful at best and just plain not intelligent.

My wife was a Think Detroit/Pal coach and dealing with the guards was maddening. If I encountered that level of uselessness and did not have to go in I would turn around and leave.




Would be nice if there could be something set up like The Presidio in San Francisco. I think it would be great to have a place overlooking the parade grounds and Detroit River.

[kryptonite]

Possibly a campaign to contact our representatives and senators to remind them that Fort Wayne is an incredibly historic complex and in danger of being closed.

I have already emailed my congressman, I plan to contact Stabenow and Levin.

MI has few National Park sites, that I know if it may only be Sleeping Bear Dunes and Isle Royale.

Fort Wayne is a wonderful military complex and quite historic. I have visited a national military park in AL that was nothing more than the land where battles took place, no building even stood on the property. If a place such as that could be in our national park system, Fort Wayne to me would be a prize in comparison. A large property with numerous historic structures, indian burial mound, on a large river on an international border. What impressive credentials, no?

[Detroitnerd]

Here is his direct quote:
“It's already pretty much closed. The only way I can seem to get in anymore is by lying that I'm there for "soccer" and then touring the ruins.�
Apparently you would like me to somehow coddle him and tell him that his way of doing things is okay by me?

Well, it only happened that one time. I was being flip. I should probably indicate better that I'm being a little facetious. But, yes, as another poster commented, the security are about as unhelpful as could be. And I resorted to the one way I could find around that, untruthful as it was.

In the end, even he apologized!

Sorry again, but, like I said, the exigency demanded a little half-truth to get in that time.

D’Nerd-
Sorry for the length of my posts, but I’m trying to give you as much information in regard to the place as possible. It is difficult to answer the questions asked in any shorter manner than this without telling the whole story. I was just attempting to be thorough.

No apology necessary. Thanks for the info.

Here is where I will apologize to you as you were obviously mistreated by the security guards at the gate. To begin with, the CoD Rec. Dept. is responsible for security. They hire and fire them at will, and often they are provided to the Fort with no input allowed by us[[HFWC). The security team that we had previously was on shift when the Historical Department was alleviated of over 90 pieces of its stained glass collection [[some as big as 4’ x 9’!), so you can plainly see that we are at a distinct disadvantage to that kind of “cooperation�. I can only say I’m sorry for their attitude.

And it sounds worse than I'd imagined!

Again, if you want a decent tour, use the method that I suggested. It should work.

Thanks.

Secondly, the overgrowth you saw was also the job of CoD General Services, who cut the grass once a month, if they even got there at all. That all changed in 2007, when we took over Groundskeeping. We have not allowed it to get that bad again, and do a decent if not very good job at keeping the place mowed and trimmed. After all, it is 93 acres!

Well, this was specifically the area that is out of sight to all but the most intrepid explorers of Fort Wayne, out by the water and the boat dock. I was amazed that tall grasses and shrubs seemed to be covering the age-old statues. A very odd sight for a history lover like me.

Thirdly, the Historical Department is responsible for the upkeep and housing of the bell, not us. This is also something we have no say in. In their defense, you do realize that the city bell is made to sit outside, right? The verdigris that it has obtained defines its historic value and actually helps to retard the corrosion of the bell. The clapper, which is highly ornate and cast of fine bronze, is stored in a hermetically sealed bubble in the CRC, and I have heard that the MetalDoctor is fixing up a cradle to suspend the bell from once again. When that is done, it will be moved to a cement pad and covered with a small roof. That should assuage your fears in regard to that, I hope. This is also true for the gun tubes that are stored adjacent to the bell, so that should change shortly, too, if all goes well.

Good news, and thanks.

Lastly, it must have been a long time ago that you saw the Fort, as we moved those statues and the city hall cornerstone, plus various other City related stuff into the CRC back in 2007. All statues are now under cover and being maintained until they can be restored and reclaimed somewhere else in the City. Maybe when they turn the MCS into the new police department we can hoist them on top of there!

Yes. This would be several years ago.

I would say that, perhaps, in light of the fact that you appear to be trying to do honest PR and outreach here, though, that the defensive tone [[as another poster pointed out) probably could be dropped in favor of that sort of polite tone that official spokespeople adopt. I know, I know: Passionate people sound passionate. And I was a heel. But, still, a little bit of courtesy with smart-alecks goes a long way. Well, I guess we got there eventually. Thanks a lot for the info.

[Crystal]

Well said, Detroitnerd.

Remarks by individual Coalition members or board members do not necessarily reflect a position or attitude of the Coalition board.

[Sstashmoo]

Crystal,

Have you folk considered radio or TV spots? If I didn't read this forum, I'd have no idea anything was happening at Fort Wayne. If you aren't already and again I haven't heard, have any military re-enactors been contacted about a possible rendezvous? Believe it or not, there are several of these groups and many boast large memberships. This would be a huge boon to the presence of the fort and what's happening there, here and elsewhere.