USS Liberty

[Bobl]

With the anniversary [[June 8, 1967) of the Israeli attack on a US ship in international waters approaching, I thought a discussion here might be informative.
A neighbor was aboard that ship, but does not talk about it, other than a statement that he is not sure who to be more angry at: Israel, or the U.S., for "letting them get away with it".
Facts and opinions, please. No flaming or political agendas...

[Detroitnerd]

With the anniversary [[June 8, 1967) of the Israeli attack on a US ship in international waters approaching, I thought a discussion here might be informative.
A neighbor was aboard that ship, but does not talk about it, other than a statement that he is not sure who to be more angry at: Israel, or the U.S., for "letting them get away with it".
Facts and opinions, please. No flaming or political agendas...

There are some pretty good essays online, with quotes from the men aboard. Judging from their accounts, it's pretty fair to say the Israelis knew that the ship was American, attacked anyway, and hoped to kill all aboard and sink the craft. The story goes that one guy managed to get a radio message to nearby U.S. Navy vessels, and the Israelis intercepted the message and called off the attack early. Defense Department officials threatened survivors of harsh paybacks if they discussed what happened publicly. Sounds like a miserable experience for those unfortunate American seamen.

[Gannon]

Wow, you are ONE DEGREE separated from one of the most outrageous examples of False Flag Operations in action in our modern world.


If it weren't for SOVIET interference, all of our men, including your neighbor, would be dead, and we'd been drawn directly into that 1967 action by Israel against their neighbors...who had admittedly been threatening to push Israel into the sea since BEFORE they were a legal nation-state.

Everything allowing our military to save face is a COVER STORY. They would as willingly sacrifice these men as easily as they did those at Pearl Harbor, or those who went to work at the WTC that fateful day in September 2001...or those in their False Flag operation cancelled by JFK not long before he was very publicly murdered in an operation that got the Secret Service to 'stand down' as oddly as NORAD did on 9/11/2001...that infamous Operation Northwood.


I have NO political agenda, and do NOT wish to argue these other points...they are well-known to anyone who dares to investigate the truth...our government and our military have MISbehaved JUST like the 'good prince' in Machiavelli's instruction manual all too many times.

They fully believe we need war in order to prosper. Once you understand that, much of the puzzle of the twentieth century becomes solvable.


Cheers

[gibran]

http://www.palestineremembered.com/A.../Story417.html we will never know the truth [[about who is pushing who into the sea or where it's origins are) ...but one truth is that two suffering people are locked into a combative role that seems to continously place the blame on each other and bury truths that exist... The USS Liberty story is faded in the annuals of history...but the fact remains today that our president Johnson's cover up of the tradegy was because of fear of more fallout for Viet nam...how these two are related is in the history books [[some of them at least)...

[Gannon]

Nice try, Gibran, but they were saying that well BEFORE Israel became a nation, that was the common threat from the Arabic sides before Israel even could buy arms...which is why their commanders apparently went ahead and did such a dastardly deed.


There are NO innocents in this battle, it has always been a dirty, dirty fight. That land seems to attract such...

[Gannon]

This article seems to be one of the most even-handed descriptions of that time...but I haven't found where they are clear on who said what first...

[gibran]

does it matter gannon who said "push into the sea or were pushed into the sea" [[see Ben Gurion's remarks)...they both are victims....and at times both with blood on their hands...The real issue is what are we going to do to convince each side that people are suffering over real estate and the spin that we hear on this side [[including the Liberty ) is biased and perpetuates the cycle of violence...tough love is needed...for both sides

[Sstashmoo]

The solution is simple. Turn the land known as ISrael into an international holy land. Neutral to all, no one can reside there. Go thee and worship all you want, when God comes back and wants to return there, it will be there. The more I learn, the more skeptical I become of a holy plan that involves the killing of innocent children. International holyland. This Israseli Gov is nothing but a bunch of thugs. This recent act, who is coumting their dead?

[gibran]

Jerusalem should be internationalized and have a tribunal to rule it openly for all people,,,

[Gannon]

That's where I was going with that, from the very beginning attempt at balanced reporting! They are all AGGRESSORS, not victims. The victims are the innocent bystanders, and anyone desiring unfettered access to that historic area.

But the war-mongers and terrorists on BOTH sides of the equation are not victims, unless you want to aim high and target the Brits for their meddling and manipulations, they are experts at few things. But playing one set against another so they can stroll in and look civilized is certainly ONE of them!

I think Machiavelli might've been BRITISH, too! [[lol, I said somewhere else that I thought he was catholic, and got called out by one of my oldest Catholic friends who wanted to know if he should be offended! He read it the opposite, somehow imagining that I thought all Catholics acted like the catholics at the HEAD of his church in Rome!)


But I've thought for years about creating peace there...imagining making it a sanctuary as you say, but letting EACH religion take care of their own TOP TWO holy sites. They can each pick two, heh, and voila!, the appropriation of each other's holy places over the centuries can be undone. They cannot control them, but would be responsible for the maintenance and upkeep...and IF everyone can get into Jerusalem, then Mecca and Medina should become tourist destinations for non-Muslim as well!

No more of this exclusive bullshit...nobody is better than anyone else. Ever.

And somehow we've GOT to convince those at the top of corporate capitalism that WAR is not necessary, not ever. But that would entail removing the entire international banking undustry...that was a typo, but it seems a better word.

I may have to start using that one...

Cheers!

[Gannon]

Most of us are INdustrious, and create and build things, they are UNdustrious...and skim off the top SO greedily that at some point they UNDO everything!


Unfortunately, that part hurts, and now we know more of how bad...and it's going to get worse!

[Bobl]

The "IBU": The International Banking Undustry. I like that!
We all know that the first casualty of war is the truth, thus the reports of the Gulf Of Tonkin "incident", and the lack of reports of the USS Liberty.
It is my opinion that the attack on the USS Liberty was simply another case of the Israelis taking no chances. They did not want news of their actions and preparations released to anyone, by anyone.

[oladub]

No one so far has mentioned the role of Senator McCain's father in the USS Liberty cover up. Admiral McCain failed to move the Liberty 100 miles off the coast as he was ordered to. McCain ordered a too hasty investigation of the incident and passed on what Navy Jag considered a flawed report. Admiral McCain also placed all Liberty sailors under a gag order.

Rockets, Napalm, Torpedoes & Lies
Israel's Attack on the Liberty, Revisited

[littlebuddy]

The USS Liberty was basically spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs. It was the most advanced syp ship at the time and was gathering the info and sending it to Cyprus where the British[[no friends of Israel) where giving it to the Arab nations. Israel warned the Liberty that it would attack. The sad part is that the US would spy on a friendly nation.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "the British[[no friends of Israel)"

You can't be serious. The "Balfour Declaration" mean anything to you at all? It's proving to be a major mistake.

Quote: "The sad part is that the US would spy on a friendly nation."

The sad part is, if it weren't for us, that place wouldn't even exist, spare us how badass the Israeli's are ok? They are feared because of us, and zero other reason.. The truly sad part is my brainwashed blank eyed stooge fellow Americans are going to keep signing off on supporting these thugs. I don't support the Israeli Government. I guess I'm an "anti-Semite" according to them. BS

[gibran]

littlebuddy again your analysis of this region is so misguided by [[whatever)....

The US liberty was a flagged ship that was gathering information and known to the Israeli's...and by your own admission [[it was warned) solidifies the case that it was sank on purpose. It's sad that your support of a country that is foreign to ours is more important than the deaths of our sailors and subsequent cover up. What they were really doing was trying to figure out a way to prevent a war [[that was labeled preemptive...and truth is Egypt didn't want to attack in the 67 war). That war is still the foundation for the occupation of terrorities that are claimed by Palestinians.

Stash you are not an anti-semite becuase you question the policies of a country...anymore than many people in the peace camps are self hating Jews...Israel in order to suirvive needs to be critised and supported at times...itis liek your child; you don't look the other way when they run into the street, you stop them. Israel is not being served by the likes of little buddy and deshowitz whose blind support is putting it into moral harms way..

[DumplingDude]

Its a shame so many agree with what happened to the people of Israel the other day. No one seems to put 2 and 2 together in order to see the rise of nazism and facism from the left and other enemies of this nation as well as Israel.

I am afraid of the future . Not just for the people of Israel , but those of this nation. If this evil is not stopped history will again repeat itself . This time it will be worse because they have joined forces amongst themselves, enemies united as one for the destruction of all that is free.

Terrible, terrible. Like sheep being led to the slaughter. The deaf leading the blind and willing to do what ever it takes to make their masters happy.

Unbelievable what this world has come to and the derangement amongst so many today. The scariest thing of all this is its popularity.
Yes, I said popular. You people are scary and have no doubt in my mind you will do everything in your power to bring about not only the end of Israel. A legal and recognized country, but the world in your vicious attempts.

Why have you not discussed the so0called humanitarian groups ties to terrorism? Or the terrorists which were aboard these so called humanitarian ships with useless medicine and other useless items.
Non political? Free Gaza, the name itself is political and they are tied to terrorists as well.
The best known to be Bill Ayers and his skank of murderous wife.

I am speechless as to the depth of the brainwashing that has gone on. It has surely been a thorough job.

[Islandman]

Hmmm. Please tell us more about this evil you speak of?

[Detroitnerd]

In all seriousness, I do feel pain and sorrow for the Israeli government, and its staunch allies and firm supporters. Because, right about now, they've got to feel like a Christian Scientist with a case of appendicitis.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "terrorists which were aboard these so called humanitarian ships"

These were six unarmed ships and the passengers were a multinational peace group. Including Americans and even a Nobel peace laureate. [[It must be legal to attack American civilians in in International waters now). They were unarmed, the Israeli thugs attacked them and killed 9+ innocents, much like they did our USS Liberty, unprovoked, unrestricted and unexplained in International waters. You can make excuses for them all you want, what they did was wrong, period. Everyone in the free world is condemning them for it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if their strength at sea be challenged in the next few days. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if warships showed up there from Russia and the EU. Ours or the British Government aren't going to do jackshit about it.

If Israel is supposed to be a beacon of freedom and hope in the area as they proclaim, they should at least act like it.

The "terrorist" "antisemite" label they plaster on anyone that questions their motives is wearing thin everywhere.

[gibran]

the spin docs are out today...as far as brainwashing I believe no one here said anything about the destruction of Israel...if they can't stand up to the scrutiny [[are they that innocent) then stop trying to garner it to loud [[what are they trying to hide?)...why did they not heed our pre=;flotilla warning ...yes that's right the US state department warned that this flotilla is drawing much attention...but the hubris of the governing party ignored our warnings...as far as terrorists on board [[show me the proof) maybe the confiscated phones, cameras and computers would have told the real story ... the ties...well anyone giving to Palestinians are labeled as supporters of terrorists...if we hear only a filtered version are we to believe one side is credible over the other because of why????? oh that's right Arabs and Turks, Irish and Greeks are not credible...

Please tell me buddy why [[we do understand Israel's dangerous and sometimes self-inflicted neighborhood) that Israel can cry foul after they were warned and told about the cargo from their allies, knew that there would be a possible confrontation, [[and trained for it) only released portions of the video, instantly tied flotilla to terrorists, and then blocked signals...

The real issue that is has been ignored is that Gaza has been under siege for over a year because 24% of the population elected a thug organization...and Israel has continuously refused to negotiate with them even when some of their own people says its time...and they helped create fundmentalism as a wedge against the PLO to begin with...ummmm [[just like our support of radical Muslims in the past)...people are dying in gaza and the spin blames the vicitims only...

and stash is right in that the sad old game of calling people antisemitic when they question Israel is old ...when their own people debate issues more than we are allowed here to ..no one wants to be labeled a bigot and no one on this forum has demonstrated bigoted remarks against our Jewish brothers and sisters...and those of us can see a resolution of this conflict are labeled many things too..self hating ect...the truthis Israel needs to be reformed as well as their neighbors ...peace would force that ....Israel needs to stop supporting AIPAC, thousands of bloggers and act like a grown up and maybe their neighbors would then concentrate on their own reforms...peace would do that... I am not naive but a student of this conflict,,, but I reseach from the perspective of moderation and both Jewish and Arab scholars on this topic...not one side is completely innocent bu one has better PR than the other and we only see what they want us to...

On another note; BIBI [[ and is just as bad as arafat.) is a thug [[and is a huge problem)and he thumbs his nose at the US ...panders to AIPAC and their dinosaurs, and sells his personal hate for Arabs with perfect english...but it's ok to hate Arabs isn't it? Thats not anything like hating others...funny how racism works...you can justify anything if you spin it correctly.

when we treat all people equally an support the peace camps in Israel and palestine; [[yes ther e has been a shift to non violent demonstrations in the region ...but we dont hear about these activities..and these peaceful demonstrations are met with violence from settlers and soldiers...ummmm...they have already arrested the Palestinian Gandhi....manytimes over.

we will truly have parity in the middle-east...when we see a different future...but then you would never have the dream of "greater Israel" or a united Palestine...and maybe the sane ones over there would take root...until we as a nation don't lend BLIND support we will never be an honest broker...and without an honest broker we will never have a just peace...without a just peace we will perpetuate this conflict...and maybe you have to ask yourself who benefits from this conflict...ummmm military sales ...no Israel deserves a peaceful existence ..so do those starving Gazans...which if were in another part of the world we would be having rock concerts for...peace and shalom....

sorry fo rthe ramble...but after studying the conflict fo rover twenty years and seeing the Jewish Social Justice model made a mockery by their own right wing exteremists is sad...talking to both sides in the moderate camps and seeing their frustration and the families suffering enrages me too...so yes I am harse on Israel at times and others the radical in Islam,,,but they are not the majority so there is hope....Free gaza is not a terrorist supporter ...but one of many multi-cultural groups trying to shift the paradigm...and if they do all parties will grow and have a better future..why should they continue down this path..it just fuels extremists and that fuels violence.

[Patrick]

The USS Liberty was basically spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs. It was the most advanced syp ship at the time and was gathering the info and sending it to Cyprus where the British[[no friends of Israel) where giving it to the Arab nations. Israel warned the Liberty that it would attack. The sad part is that the US would spy on a friendly nation.

Are you one of the chosen folks by any chance?

[gibran]

just the uniformed...not chosen...but that is his right...a freedom fought for by the sailors and service people on the Liberty

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...rder-sanctions.

[ferntruth]

I support Israel. Period.

[gibran]

well that is great...and you should support Israel...and the best way to do so is holding it accountable. I support Israeli's who are there for the long haul and recognize Social Justice is a pillar of Jewish life and is applied to all people equally. Sometimes support isn't blind it is just...