Grand Trunk Western Locations

[Hermod]

Here are a couple of location on the Grand Trunk Western Detroit-Port Huron line out Gratiot. They are listed in Meints "Along The Tracks" as being on that line, but no specific location is given.

Nallville in Wayne County

Measel in Macomb County


Do these names ring a bell with anyone?

[Detroitnerd]

Here are a couple of location on the Grand Trunk Western Detroit-Port Huron line out Gratiot. They are listed in Meints "Along The Tracks" as being on that line, but no specific location is given.

Nallville in Wayne County

Measel in Macomb County


Do these names ring a bell with anyone?

Never heard of them. Was that the train young Edison was a "candy butcher" on?

[Hermod]

Never heard of them. Was that the train young Edison was a "candy butcher" on?

Yes, originally called the Detroit and Port Huron Railroad and bought by the Grand Trunk.

..

[Sandhouse]

I never heard of `em, either. Your best bet is a GTW employee timetable, and maybe an old one will be necessary. For ease of dispatching, railroads named each junction, siding or switch. Often these names became the names of the adjacent community. Other times, the names remained in use only by railroaders. The DeLorme atlas and USC&GS maps often show these names [[like "Tappan" and "Columbus" on the GTW Port Huron line, but no "Measel.")

[Detroitnerd]

I wonder if they might be old farm names. Just a hunch. Perhaps some of those old farm ownership maps has a clue?

[Gannon]

Don't you have to buy tickets to ride this line at Foran's?!

[Detroitnerd]

Don't you have to buy tickets to ride this line at Foran's?!

Heh. Yes, the Grand Trunk Pub [[formerly and still familiarly called Foran's) was an old ticketing office for the GTW.

[mikefmich]

Is that Meisel in Macomb by any chance, rather than Measel?

[Detroitnerd]

Lots of Measels in Michigan cemeteries over the years.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...Measel&GSst=24

[Detroitnerd]

Is that Meisel in Macomb by any chance, rather than Measel?

In my experience with genealogy, an uncommon spelling of a name is pure gold. Usually you can trace it better that way.

[Mikeg]

The 1875 Macomb County plat maps show that there are six different parcels owned by someone with the Measel/Meazel surname within a half-mile either side of the GTW RR track in Warren Twp.

The RR track bisects Jacob Meazel's parcel at what would be Eight and one half mile Road and Daniel Meazel's parcel at what would be Nine and one half mile Road.

However the map shows no stations in that area, only the "Utica Station" near Fraser.

[Detroitnerd]

The 1875 Macomb County plat maps show that there are six different parcels owned by someone with the Measel/Meazel surname within a half-mile either side of the GTW RR track in Warren Twp.

The RR track bisects Jacob Meazel's parcel at what would be Eight and one half mile Road and Daniel Meazel's parcel at what would be Nine and one half mile Road.

However the map shows no stations in that area, only the "Utica Station" near Fraser.

A siding for picking up produce, perhaps?

[Hermod]

The 1875 Macomb County plat maps show that there are six different parcels owned by someone with the Measel/Meazel surname within a half-mile either side of the GTW RR track in Warren Twp.

The RR track bisects Jacob Meazel's parcel at what would be Eight and one half mile Road and Daniel Meazel's parcel at what would be Nine and one half mile Road.

However the map shows no stations in that area, only the "Utica Station" near Fraser.

Utica Plank [[Milepost 16.5) is now called Fraser. It was named because the Utica Plank Road [[now Utica Road) intersected Gratiot at that point.

[Retroit]

They aren't listed on this 1870 timetable. http://www.sullboat.com/1870timetable_s.jpg

What is the timeframe that these stops existed?

[Hermod]

They aren't listed on this 1870 timetable. http://www.sullboat.com/1870timetable_s.jpg

What is the timeframe that these stops existed?

Graydon M. Meintz wrote a book called "Along the Tracks: A Directory of Named Places on Michigan Railroads", Clarke Historical Library, Central Michigan University, 1987. He goes through the state county by county and names every place that has ecver appeared on an employee or public timetable or that has been referred to in conjunction with a railroad. Most of the places are given along with their railroad milepost [[e.g. Romeo GTW-A 14.2) which shows the Romeo station to be at milepost 14.2 on the Michigan Air Line branch of the GTW. Some places are mentioed in conjunction with the railroad, but have no milepost number which indicates that Meintz couldn't pin down the exact location.

[Retroit]

"...every place that has ever appeared on an employee or public timetable..."

This is a long shot, but could these two locations between the two junctions of a siding track? At one time, switching for these sidings would have been done manually [[I presume) and would account for an "employee timetable".

I know the line currently splits just south of 10 Mile Road.

[douglasm]

Retroit may be right. For the sake of trainorders way back when [[or now, for that matter), most every siding away from an established station had a name. Let me ask a couple people I know who know the GTW backwards and forwards [[I knew the Detroit Division quite well, but get over on the east side, I'm lost.) and see if I can get an answer.

[Hermod]

West Detroit 0.0


Michigan Ave 0.5


Vinewood Ave 0.7


24th Street 1.1


Grand River Ave 1.9


Avery Ave 2.3


12th Street 2.4


Trumbull Ave 2.7


Holden Road 3.0


Woodward Ave 3.6


Beaubien St 3.8


Russell Street 4.4


Milwaukee Jn. 4.6


Belt Line Jn 5.1


East Yard 6.6


Forest Lawn 7.2


Mount Olivet 8.3


Nolan Yard 9.1


Conners Grove 9.2


Eight Mile Road 10.1


Double Track Switch 11.4


East Detroit 12.1


Fraser/Utica Plank 16.5


Mt Clemens 22.0


Chesterfield 26.6


Milton 28.9


New Haven 32.2


Richmond 37.9


Columbus 44.9


Smith's Creek 48.6


Almont Jn 54.7


Tappan 55.6


Fort Gratiot 59.5

[Mikeg]

Double Track Switch 11.4

That milepost places the switch at the Nine and a half mile road crossing in Section 26 of Warren Twp. The 1875 plat map shows Daniel Meazel's farmhouse to have been located only about 500 feet to the west of that point.

Attachment 6197

I think we have found the location of "Measel" on the GTW Detroit-Port Huron line.

[goggomobil]

Nallville is mentioned here , as being about 5 miles from City Hall [[in 1891)... 'He owns a farm of fifty acres, five miles from City Hall, near Nallville...'

[Retroit]

The map I have shows the southern junction of that siding to be located just northeast of 7 Mile Road and Outer Drive [[possibly "Nolan Yard" or "Conners Grove"). However, 5 miles from city hall would be the location of another junction with another line [[Michigan Central, Conrail, ?)currently just north of the Mt. Elliot overpass [[possibly "Forest Lawn" cemetery).

[Detroitnerd]

I've read about landowners having upkeep duties for telegraph or other physical plant. I wonder if Dan Meazel was a contract employee...

[Retroit]

The 12.1 mile mark is listed as "East Detroit". This would have been at 10 Mile Road. However, the city of East Detroit never encompassed that area. Or, did they mean east Detroit?

[Hermod]

I've read about landowners having upkeep duties for telegraph or other physical plant. I wonder if Dan Meazel was a contract employee...

Railroads tended to have their own "section gang" employees though they added local talent as laborers.for larger jobs. I would imagine the RR guys referred to the locale as "Meazel's Farm" or Meazel. Meazel might have had a store near the location that the RR serviced or he might have had a dairy farm and they had a milk stop there to pickup cans for the city.. Over time, the GTW decided that Double Track Switch was a more descriptive term.

[EastsideAl]

I've been looking into this place named Nallville and I've gathered a number of pieces that may or may not add up to an answer to the mystery, and that brings up at least one other historical Detroit mystery of its own.

Like goggomobil, I ran into a couple of references to a 'Nallville' in James J. Mitchell's "Detroit in History and Commerce" from 1891. The one he cites can be found in the history of the grocery store company of Dwyer & Vhay on page 103 HERE. The bio for James H. Vhay [[which follows the bio for his partner, John M. Dwyer) ends with the line "He owns a farm of fifty acres, five miles from the City Hall, near Nallville, upon which his system of experimental farming has proven very successful."

The other reference, which may provide more of a clue, is in the bio of real estate man William Edward Coulter on page 75 HERE. The bio states "In 1881 he became associated with James J. Nall and Company as a salesman continuing in that relation for six years, during which time he embarked in real estate speculations with profitable results." and goes on to state that "He also purchased 200 lots from John M. Dwyer near Nallville".

Below is a close up of a map of Hamtramck Township from the 1904 "Detailed official atlas of Wayne County." The diagonal street on the far left is Conant, and the Grand Trunk Pt. Huron line can be seen running diagonally to the northeast on the right.

Note the properties of J. M. Dwyer and Jas. H. Vhay that surround the village of Maybury on the left, at the corner of Conant and Charles. Could Maybury have been called Nallville at one time? Is this the tract that was sold by Dwyer to William Coulter for development? The Grand Trunk does not run very close to that village at all, but if there was something on that line named for it it would most likely be very near the present-day Forest Lawn junction and tower, northeast of Mt. Elliott and Lynch Rd.