Religious conversion and marriage

**Patrick** · May-22-10, 04:03 PM

I have attended a good number of weddings in the last several years where one of the newlyweds converted from one religion to another. What I donâ€™t understand that it was always a Christian converting to either Islam or Judaism. You never hear of a Jew or a Muslim converting to Christianity to marry their loved one. Why is that? What makes Christianity so "flexible" with regards to converting?

**ronaldj** · May-22-10, 04:56 PM

Not sure it is a good question. I was born and raised in the Catholic faith as were my brother and sisters. We have all strayed a bit. But within the realm of Chistianity. My mother and father almost did not make to my wedding because my wife belonged to a Protestant denomination. Same for the baptisms of my two sons. It was not Catholic.

However, my mother is now attending Baptist services at the assisted living home center that she lives in. No problem.

Our oldest son is getting married in June to a Krishna adherent. He is not converting and cn recite the Bible, chapter and verse, just to piss you off..

I had an aunt who I considered the most "catholic" woman I knew because she would go to any church be it wedding, funeral or regular service because she found God where she could.

My wife and I had the most interesting overview of Islam from a guest to our house. He explained the Prophet's philosophy with a cigarette and a glass of scotch in his hand.

Please remember, Christiany has always ben flexible. If you are not flexible, you will break.

**Patrick** · May-22-10, 05:17 PM

I can understand straying from one form of Christianity to another but the conversion upon marriage part...I dont.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-22-10, 05:39 PM

It is my personal opinion that using the term "Christianity" to refer to a faith is stupid. There is no "Christian" faith, and hasn't been since the Middle Ages. You have a multitude of denominations within Christianity, all of which are vastly different from each other.

I know that in the Catholic Church, conversion away from the Church is verboten. The belief is that upon receiving the Sacraments of Baptism, Communion, and Confirmation, one is a full member of the Church, and any attempt to renege on these Sacraments is an attempt to undo God's work. That's not my opinion, mind you, but what the Church teaches.

I'm not sure how it works with Protestant faiths that have decentralized teachings.

**terryh** · May-22-10, 05:45 PM

More examples of how religion-dogma divides and intrudes upon personal lives..
My brother and father in law politely-respectfully, asked me and wife who is of Lebanese decent and an avowed atheist like myself,to have an engagement ceremony with a muslim sheik because of the fathers prominence in the community,. and recieves advertising revenue for a local publication. The family is very moderate, my father in law actually shook my hand and thanked me for sitting down with the sheik and him before the ceremony. He said "we dont care about the religion we are secular" he later made sure we had a very elaborate weddding...

Anyways it was ok after the ceremony for us to go out and be seen together or something to that effect....my wife technically wasnt supposed to move in until the wedding party but we shacked up anyways...I considered us married when we had the civil ceremony by the mayor who made no mention of an intervening supernatural being.....it irks me that there are humans who have an emotion, think they know a truth I dont, and wont accept a small human child as 'legitimate' unless there is a religious figurehead...the family knows that I lied to the sheik and have blasphemed allah and the illegitimate prophet mohammed....so I guess technically any child we have isnt going to be 'legitimate'......yet I am expected to 'respect' that mohammed the propeht sat in a cave and recieved divine instructions [[schizophrnia?) from a supernatural deity...

The Catholic church wouldnt baptize my son because me and my ex-girlfriend werent married ...I was disspointed that she would want to have a baptism ceremony in the first place..

good without God and religion.....

**Meddle** · May-22-10, 05:47 PM

Get married at City Hall in front of a Judge or Justice of the Peace.

Problem solved.

**terryh** · May-22-10, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

It is my personal opinion that using the term "Christianity" to refer to a faith is stupid. There is no "Christian" faith, and hasn't been since the Middle Ages. You have a multitude of denominations within Christianity, all of which are vastly different from each other.

I know that in the Catholic Church, conversion away from the Church is verboten. The belief is that upon receiving the Sacraments of Baptism, Communion, and Confirmation, one is a full member of the Church, and any attempt to renege on these Sacraments is an attempt to undo God's work. That's not my opinion, mind you, but what the Church teaches.

I'm not sure how it works with Protestant faiths that have decentralized teachings.

If you want to be technica, one could argue that there are no muslims,hindus,jews,christians etc...just humans who have an emotion make a lifestyle choice and interpret a scripture...

**ghettopalmetto** · May-22-10, 05:53 PM

Terryh, for someone who claims to be an avowed atheist, you sure seem to care a lot about what religion will and will-not permit you to do.

I mean, why on God's green earth would you want to baptize your child in the Catholic faith if you're not going to raise your child as a Catholic? It's a faith, a way of life--not the Taco Bell fucking drive thru.... They don't OWE you a Baptism just because you show up with a baby.

**terryh** · May-22-10, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Get married at City Hall in front of a Judge or Justice of the Peace.

Problem solved.

Not everyone has the backbone to stand up to their families and friends in this regard....I agree totally..I dated a Chaldean Catholic woman years ago who had three kids outside of marriage and her baby sister was the only relation who communicated with her....the kids were well adjusted, whenever she would throw a party for one of them many prominent members of the community would attend.....life goes on without holier than thow superstitious relatives....I have often second guessed my decision to comply with my inlaws request to have a religious figurehead involved in my marriage...

**Ray1936** · May-22-10, 07:47 PM

Religion is bunk. Once again, with apologies to Henry Ford.

**Sstashmoo** · May-22-10, 11:24 PM

Quote: "It is my personal opinion that using the term "Christianity" to refer to a faith is stupid."

Well that is your opinion and as always.. stupid.

**maxx** · May-23-10, 05:22 AM

terryh: The Catholic church wouldnt baptize my son because me and my ex-girlfriend werent married ...I was disspointed that she would want to have a baptism ceremony in the first place.

maxx: The catholic church is not literalist and yet they insist on baptism to "wash away" the original sin of "Adam". Perhaps they base it on the NT story where Jesus is baptized by John the reason for which is not really explained. Jews used the scapegoat on the Day of Atonement to take their sins away. Maybe by the first century it had been distilled to ritual bathing.
At any rate, it is ridiculous to think that a tiny baby could have any sins.

As for people converting before marriage, I imagine the person who is less sure of his/her faith would make the conversion for the sake of harmony. Islam teaches that apostasy is worthy of death. That has been called into question when the world is aware of such cases.

Ravine · May-23-10, 05:44 AM

The post which opened this thread asked a fairly specific question. But, like so many other threads, on DY, touching on religion & related matters, it has been used as a soapbox for the Usual Suspects to broadcast their atheism or disdain for atheism.
The overbearing self-righteousness is nauseating. The obnoxiousness of the "I feel sorry for you; I'll pray for you" attitude of some of the religious is totally matched, and frequently surpassed, by the obnoxiousness of the "If you were a little more intelligent, and as enlightened as I am, you wouldn't buy into such superstitious hocus-pocus" attitude of nearly every last one of the atheists.
All of this faux-profound discourse, and nary an open mind on either side. Most of you are just plain full of egocentric bullshit.

**maxx** · May-23-10, 06:13 AM

Ravine: Care to be specific or are you just having a bad day?

**sarge** · May-23-10, 07:12 AM

Patrick,

I think your view of the situation may be guided by your vantage point. My mother's side of the family is jewish. My father's side of the family is lutheran. I know of exactly one person who converted to judaism because of their spouse. I know of at least 8 converted christians that I can think of off the cuff who have done so.

I don't know of any member of my father's side of the family born after 1960 who is married to a non-christian. Just about every member of my mother's family born after 1960 is married to a non-jew.

The statistical truth probably lies somewhere in between.

**Pam** · May-23-10, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick

I have attended a good number of weddings in the last several years where one of the newlyweds converted from one religion to another. What I donâ€™t understand that it was always a Christian converting to either Islam or Judaism. You never hear of a Jew or a Muslim converting to Christianity to marry their loved one. Why is that? What makes Christianity so "flexible" with regards to converting?

I don't know if the religion is flexible or just that the people you know weren't that commited to it and felt it was more important to please the person they were marrying or their family.

**Zacha341** · May-23-10, 07:53 AM

Could be because those particular Christians are not as committed to their faith as those whom they are marrying are to theirs.

Originally Posted by Patrick

I have attended a good number of weddings in the last several years where one of the newlyweds converted from one religion to another. What I donâ€™t understand that it was always a Christian converting to either Islam or Judaism. You never hear of a Jew or a Muslim converting to Christianity to marry their loved one. Why is that? What makes Christianity so "flexible" with regards to converting?

**Zacha341** · May-23-10, 07:55 AM

Exactly. Some of these Christians may be "cultural" Christians only [[having been raised as such) that may have long since ceased attending any church, fellowship or Bible reading or personal commune spiritually speaking. Devote Muslims, Jews and Hindus would rarely convert to someone "practicing" Christianity at that low wattage level. Why should they? IMO, some would tend to be motivated to convert to Christianity only if it were presented in a more active, life-changing, evangelical level.

Originally Posted by Pam

I don't know if the religion is flexible or just that the people you know weren't that commited to it and felt it was more important to please the person they were marrying or their family.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-23-10, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "It is my personal opinion that using the term "Christianity" to refer to a faith is stupid."

Well that is your opinion and as always.. stupid.

Well, my "stupid" opinion is based on the FACT that "Christianity" refers to dozens of faiths, all of which have different teachings and rites from each other. The term is not specific enough.

**East Detroit** · May-23-10, 09:16 AM

To get back to the original question....

I think many of the Christian denominations do not require you to "convert." You just show up in church, ask to be a member if you want without dogmatic rite of passage and there you are. Seems that many Americans think that Christian = Catholic, and that is just not the case.

As for both people being of the same religion, I think that helps avoid conflicts later with kids. However, converting for its own sake would seem to cause more problems than solve them unless the convert wasn't really big into their prior religion anyway.

**sumas** · May-23-10, 10:31 AM

When I was in my teens I dated a young Jewish man. His folks adored me because they thought I was Jewish. My name sounds Jewish and at least according to their view I looked Jewish. When they found out via his brother I wasn't, the father came to blows with my boyfriend because he refused to stop dating me.

The family then threatened him with being dis-inherited. His family was wealthy and the threats worked. He told me farewell. I understood, but to this day, I think his family went over board. The odds of us ever marrying was un likely, we were just kids. He was sweet, naive and very smart. He believed in "saving" himself for his eventual marriage.

The result of his families intervention in our relationship turned him into the campus slut. He did marry a Jewish girl. She had fake blond hair, fake enormous boobs, fake nose job, was a campus slut too and was dumb as a stump.

Family was happy since she was Jewish. They have since divorced.

For the record had we continued our relationship, I would not have converted.

Personally, I am flexible. My children are free to marry whom they wish

**jiminnm** · May-23-10, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Well, my "stupid" opinion is based on the FACT that "Christianity" refers to dozens of faiths, all of which have different teachings and rites from each other. The term is not specific enough.

Written like a true Catholic, stressing the importance of rites, ritual and dogma over what should be the fundamental core belief of every Christian religion - that Christ was the son of God, died for our sins and was physically and spiritually resurrected. That is what Christianity is, not what some organization says as it inserts itself between you and that core belief.

**Sstashmoo** · May-23-10, 06:31 PM

jiminnm, spot on, as usual.

**Detroitej72** · May-24-10, 07:36 AM

I think that people who convert from one faith to another probably weren't that set in their original faith to began with. Many people simply identify with the faith that they were raised in but are either indifferent or never really understood what it meant to be of that particular following. Then when they decide to marry, they may attend the church of their spouse and find it to their liking or they may just convert to satisfy a perspective family.

All the folks I know who are religious are very set in their beliefs and would never compromise. The two family members of mine who converted did so, not because of marriage, but because they felt the Catholic Church was too liberal thus one converted to Baptist and the other to the Lutheran Church.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-24-10, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by jiminnm

Written like a true Catholic, stressing the importance of rites, ritual and dogma over what should be the fundamental core belief of every Christian religion - that Christ was the son of God, died for our sins and was physically and spiritually resurrected. That is what Christianity is, not what some organization says as it inserts itself between you and that core belief.

If you take the rites and ritual out of religion, you're left with an overglorified book club.