N Korea Torpedos S Korean Warship

[Papasito]

Act Of War Confirmed By Investigation
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37244411...ws-asiapacific

A report by investigators, including experts from the United States, Australia, Britain and Sweden, concluded that a North Korean submarine sank the Cheonan corvette. The report, announced in a nationally televised news conference, said intelligence had shown that North Korean submarines were likely in operation near the scene of the sinking, with similar vessels of other neighboring countries all inside their territorial waters.
"The evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that the torpedo was fired by a North Korean submarine," it said. "There is no other plausible explanation.

Torpedo parts salvaged from the Yellow Sea shown during a press conference
at the Defense Ministry on Thursday in Seoul, South Korea.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37215526...shington_post/

South Korea reached its conclusion that North Korea was responsible for the attack after investigators from Australia, Britain, Sweden and the United States pieced together portions of the ship at the port of Pyongtaek, 40 miles southwest of Seoul. The Cheonan sank on March 26, following an explosion that rocked the vessel as it sailed in the Yellow Sea off South Korea's west coast. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because South Korea has yet to disclose the findings of the investigation, said that subsequent analysis determined that the torpedo was identical to a North Korean torpedo that had previously been obtained by South Korea.

Oboy.

[Papasito]

I betcha there's one border in this world that's a hot zone right now,
and it's the border between North & South Korea !

North Korea threatens 'all-out war'

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak vowed "stern action" for the attack after a multinational investigation issued its long-awaited results Thursday, concluding the North fired a torpedo that sank the Cheonan navy ship March 26 near the Koreas' tense sea border.

"If the [[South Korean) enemies try to deal any retaliation or punishment or if they try sanctions or a strike on us ... we will answer to this with all-out war," Col. Pak In Ho of North Korea's navy told broadcaster APTN in an exclusive interview in Pyongyang.
.......
An international civilian-military investigation team said evidence overwhelmingly proves a North Korean submarine fired a homing torpedo that caused a massive underwater blast that tore the Cheonan apart.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37244411...ws-asiapacific

The next couple of days are going to be awful interesting.
If South Korea attacks the North, they are completely justified. If an American warship was slammed with a torpedo and a civilian/military investigation performed by multiple countries determined it was an act of another country's military, we would be justified, too. It doesn't get any more black and white than this.

[Islandman]

[Papasito]

I was reading up on this situation last night. South Korea isn't going to counter militarily. While I don't endorse war, I also think you can't let 2 bit tyrants go around blowing up your naval ships and shooting down your commercial airliners. Somewhere you have to draw a line in the sand. Looks like South Korea is letting this one slide.

Input from the three countries will be key to determining an appropriate response, especially with fears that too tough a reaction could provoke new hostilities or spark chaos in the region.
.....
At an emergency national security meeting Friday in Seoul, South Korean President Lee Myung-bak said his country was caught in a "perfect military ambush" but called for a cautious response to the sinking.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37269656...s-asiapacific/

[Johnlodge]

Tough situation, they are right to be cautious, I doubt a military response would be in their best interests. However, should N. Korea keep up their antics to the point it starts to have an effect on China's economy, and China decides to wash their hands of those lunatics, they'll be in deep shit.

[gibran]

I would like one time the other super powers put their neck out there and reign in their protectorates...ummm that is wishful thinking though..we can't even influence our own...but wouldn't it b nice if China says you stop your antics or we cut you off..but then they would hypocrites too with Tibet in turmoil...Russia has their hands full too...do we see a trend here? imperialism and colonialism don't mix when you leave dictatorships in place or false democracies...but the super powes need a "free market for arms " and it seems we have to keep selling arms to everyone.

[Papasito]

the super powes need a "free market for arms " and it seems we have to keep selling arms to everyone.

Yeah, this is a stupid trend. There are so many groups now that aim our own weapons at us...when will we learn?

[Papasito]

U.S.A. PRACTICALLY BEGGING FOR WAR WITH NORTH KOREA

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37329506...ws-asiapacific

Clinton says world must respond to N. Korea

Attack that killed 46 sailors was an 'unacceptable provocation,' she says

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64N0ZT20100524

"We endorse President Lee's demand that North Korea immediately apologize and punish those responsible for the attack, and, most importantly, stop its belligerent and threatening behavior,"

Obama tells military: prepare for North Korea aggression

When you tell your military to "get ready for North Korea", you are provoking North Korea.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ma-south-korea

North Korea: Obama's 'dumb war'?

President Obama could be walking into the very minefield he has warned against in the past. The same Obama who railed against his predecessor George Bush's "unwise" war in Iraq for wasting US military resources and distracting troops from catching Osama bin Laden, is now helping escalate tensions against North Korea. With Iraq nowhere near a done deal and the war in Afghanistan gaining steam, the president is nonetheless backing moves that could lead to the type of "dumb war" he foreshadowed in 2002, with undetermined length, cost and consequences.

[Retroit]

I don't think this one incident should be justification for war. We have seen similar incidents in the past:

• In 1988, the U.S. accidentally shot down an Iranian passenger airliner killing 290 people. Would we have felt it was justified if Iran bombed the U.S. as a result of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
• In 2001, a Chinese fighter pilot intentionally, but without authorization, bumped into a U.S. Navy P-3 patrol plane, forcing it to land in China. Would the U.S. have been justified in bombing China? http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/04/0...hina.plane.03/
• In 1898, the U.S. Navy ship USS Maine exploded in Havana Harbor, Cuba. The explosion was blamed on Spain [[then in control of Cuba) and was used as justification for going to war with Spain. Was this justified? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_[[ACR-1)
• In 1915, the British ocean line RMS Lusitania set sail from the U.S. to Liverpool despite explicit warnings by the Germans that they intended to sink it. Was it's sinking, and the loss of many American lives, a justification for the U.S. to enter WWI? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania

So, the real question is: was this a deliberate act of war, an accident, an act by a renegade within the North Korean Navy, a miscommunication within the N.K. Navy, etc? Until we know more, or until further aggressive actions by N.K. are forthcoming, it would be best to cool off and consider whether a course of action other than war is more appropriate.

[jiminnm]

"I don't think this one incident should be justification for war. We have seen similar incidents in the past"

It isn't just this one incident of aggression. There have been numerous, maybe dozens, of naval conflicts prompted by North Korea during the past decade. Those generally ended with a few shots fired and the North Koreans heading back into their waters. There have also been a number of gunfire exchanges on the land border.

It is a pattern of behavior by the North Koreans that went further than usual this time. Previously, the disputes were diplomatically resolved with North Korea getting something out of the deal. This time, it looks like they're not going to get much.

So, I don't think this was any accident. There have been reports that the great leader decorated the unit that fired the torpedo, but I can't find any firm news on that.

[Retroit]

Mindless provocations between militaries should not be a justification for subjecting the innocent populaces to obliteration.

[DumplingDude]

"I don't think this one incident should be justification for war. We have seen similar incidents in the past"

It isn't just this one incident of aggression. There have been numerous, maybe dozens, of naval conflicts prompted by North Korea during the past decade. Those generally ended with a few shots fired and the North Koreans heading back into their waters. There have also been a number of gunfire exchanges on the land border.

It is a pattern of behavior by the North Koreans that went further than usual this time. Previously, the disputes were diplomatically resolved with North Korea getting something out of the deal. This time, it looks like they're not going to get much.

So, I don't think this was any accident. There have been reports that the great leader decorated the unit that fired the torpedo, but I can't find any firm news on that.

These are the same type or similar types of situations which drew us into Iraq. Constant firing upon our planes and that of the allies covering the North and South no fly zones as well as playing games with the UN and nuclear arms inspectors. Draw your own conclusions if you have not already but I think this is only going to accelerate and we will be drawn into another war.
I just feel bad for our friends in the South and I especially feel bad for the brainwashed populace of the North. They are lambs being led unwittingly to the slaughter.

By the way, hi.

[jiminnm]

Mindless provocations between militaries should not be a justification for subjecting the innocent populaces to obliteration.

This is true, but may not be applicable. Experts estimate that as many as 100,000 South Koreans could be killed during the first few hours should North Korea open fire with their artillery and cross the DMZ with a flood of soldiers. No one doubts that the north would lose any conflict [[assuming no nuclear weapons are available to them), but the death toll would be very high in the south. At some point, South Korea will weigh their possible losses under various outcomes and decide what to do.