Would water taxi's be viable in Detroit?

**DetroitSTAR** · May-18-10, 09:27 AM

I recently spent an extended period of time in Copenhagen Denmark. I was astonished by the number of people that used the water taxi there. Granted, that is a city obsessed with traveling in any way that does not involve a car, but I still think this would have potential in Detroit.

It may not be practical for the every day working person, but I think it could work on a part time basis.

Scenario 1: Downtown festivals always cause havoc with traffic and parking. Imagine parking in St. Clair Shores, or Grosse Pointe and being able to get to Rivertown or Downtown without dealing with any traffic and having a scenic ride along the way. Imagine coming from downriver without having to navigate the constant construction mess around Marounland.

Scenario 2: In the summer time people love to spend time downtown but often the cost of parking for events in a deterrent. There are tons of people that would love the opportunity to get out on the lake/river, but do not have access to a boat. This is an opportunity for people to get to a particular place, and have some fun along the way.

River taxi's are used around the world as a viable transportation alternative AND a tourist attraction all at the same time. Does anyone think this could work in Detroit?

**Detroitnerd** · May-18-10, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSTAR

I recently spent an extended period of time in Copenhagen Denmark. I was astonished by the number of people that used the water taxi there. Granted, that is a city obsessed with traveling in any way that does not involve a car, but I still think this would have potential in Detroit.

It may not be practical for the every day working person, but I think it could work on a part time basis.

Scenario 1: Downtown festivals always cause havoc with traffic and parking. Imagine parking in St. Clair Shores, or Grosse Pointe and being able to get to Rivertown or Downtown without dealing with any traffic and having a scenic ride along the way. Imagine coming from downriver without having to navigate the constant construction mess around Marounland.

Scenario 2: In the summer time people love to spend time downtown but often the cost of parking for events in a deterrent. There are tons of people that would love the opportunity to get out on the lake/river, but do not have access to a boat. This is an opportunity for people to get to a particular place, and have some fun along the way.

River taxi's are used around the world as a viable transportation alternative AND a tourist attraction all at the same time. Does anyone think this could work in Detroit?

My only Rust Belt experience with water taxis was in Toledo. They have a water taxi that will run you across the river to some restaurants and parks on the other side. It was fun, though you imagine the weather would shut it down every so often.

The only problems I can think of, beyond the weather considerations [[rough water, high wind, icing over) are that water taxis in Toledo took you ACROSS the water. That would be politically impossible here.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-18-10, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

The only problems I can think of, beyond the weather considerations [[rough water, high wind, icing over) are that water taxis in Toledo took you ACROSS the water. That would be politically impossible here.

...and not because of the international boundary, but because of Matty Maroun.

**bike4beer** · May-18-10, 09:42 AM

I know I would use it. There is still no way to get a bicycle across the river without a car. The closest bicycle friendly crossing I can find is in Algonac.

**Gannon** · May-18-10, 09:43 AM

I think they would at least be effective at tying up some of Homeland Security's resources...bring 'em ON, then!

**DetroitSTAR** · May-18-10, 09:51 AM

I was actually referring to taxiing [[if that's a word) between northern suburbs and downriver suburbs to downtown. I can't say I have boated from these areas to downtown, so I don't know how long it would take. But I think the leisure of the experience would entice a lot of people to use it.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-18-10, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSTAR

I was actually referring to taxiing [[if that's a word) between northern suburbs and downriver suburbs to downtown. I can't say I have boated from these areas to downtown, so I don't know how long it would take. But I think the leisure of the experience would entice a lot of people to use it.

What you're proposing is a series of passenger nautical routes parallel to existing roadways and railways. Pray tell, what makes this slower, more costly mode of transportation more attractive?

**Hermod** · May-18-10, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What you're proposing is a series of passenger nautical routes parallel to existing roadways and railways. Pray tell, what makes this slower, more costly mode of transportation more attractive?

Water taxis are basically "for fun" things like Caribbean cruises.

There was a commuter boat which ran from downtown Hampton, VA to downtown Norfolk, VA which was a bit slower, but avoided 'white knuckle" bumper to bumper driving through the tunnel. It was popular with bankers, lawyer, and stock brokers who lived on the north side of Hampton Roads and worked in the Norfolk financial district. It was not profitable to operate.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-18-10, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Water taxis are basically "for fun" things like Caribbean cruises.

There was a commuter boat which ran from downtown Hampton, VA to downtown Norfolk, VA which was a bit slower, but avoided 'white knuckle" bumper to bumper driving through the tunnel. It was popular with bankers, lawyer, and stock brokers who lived on the north side of Hampton Roads and worked in the Norfolk financial district. It was not profitable to operate.

Roads, bridges, and tunnels aren't profitable to operate, either, so let's just go ahead and strike that from consideration, shall we?

**DetroitSTAR** · May-18-10, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What you're proposing is a series of passenger nautical routes parallel to existing roadways and railways. Pray tell, what makes this slower, more costly mode of transportation more attractive?

It is not meant to replace or even reduce use of other modes of transportation. It is a leisure thing more than anything. There are people that would like to visit downtown for various reasons, but do not want to deal with the "hassle" of driving or ride the bus. People in Michigan have a love affair with our waterways. I have got to believe this would be a hit for families.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-18-10, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSTAR

It is not meant to replace or even reduce use of other modes of transportation. It is a leisure thing more than anything. There are people that would like to visit downtown for various reasons, but do not want to deal with the "hassle" of driving or ride the bus. People in Michigan have a love affair with our waterways. I have got to believe this would be a hit for families.

Okay, so get a boat and knock yourself out.

**kryptonite** · May-18-10, 10:30 AM

Detroitstar, I think your idea is great. The only drawback I see is that it would likely be only a peak-summer festival service. Something like Saturdays and Sundays Memorial Day - Labor Day. But I wonder how many passengers would be required for something like water taxis to be profitable? The new passenger terminal on the Detroit River behind the RenCen should be opening before long I guess, that would be perfect for water taxis. And the fares would need to be reasonable to attract people away from driving downtown and parking.

But the poor people taking such a taxi from Downriver. Wyandotte is beautiful and Trenton is nice, but imagine boating past Riverview, Ecorse, River Rouge, Zug Island, etc. The views from the East Side would be much better.

**English** · May-18-10, 11:28 AM

Does the Diamond Jack offer a service like this, or just tours? For some reason, I thought there was another stop outside of downtown.

**Detroitnerd** · May-18-10, 11:39 AM

One of the boats docks Downriver somewhere.

**stromberg2** · May-18-10, 02:07 PM

In Wyandotte.

Stromberg2

**Whitehouse** · May-18-10, 02:20 PM

There are some examples over here in the Netherlands. Some local, like within the city limits of Rotterdam, some interlocal like a high speed link between the southern cities of Dordrecht and Rotterdam or between the port of IJmuiden and Amsterdam. Especially those links really provide a speedy link between those cities as the roadtraffic is mostly gridlocked in rushhours.

The Amsterdam link uses secondhand Russian plane boats that lift themselves out of the water. A speed of 60km/h is easily to reach.

**Detroitnerd** · May-18-10, 02:44 PM

How about an "aqua-bus"?

I used to laugh about that, but then somebody told me about Pittsburgh's "ducks".

**Hermod** · May-18-10, 03:01 PM

Here in Ft Lauderdale, we have water taxis [[and sight-seeing DUKWs). The water taxis primarily service the waterfront restaurants from various origination points. They have to be subsidized and they can run year around and have no weather constraints [[except hurricanes). We run expanded water taxis during the boat shows. The DUKWs are a sightseeing operation and charge enough for the one-time trip [[as do various sightseeing boats that ply the inland waterways.

A dinner cruise from say Detroit to Algonac and return might be profitable though the short season may tell against it.

**mwilbert** · May-18-10, 04:20 PM

Of course you can run a leisure service wherever you can find a market, but you have to be able to pay the interest on the boat, so a few summer holidays probably aren't feasible. There are lots of places with commuter water service, but you need either the right shoreline configuration [[you have a shortcut going over the water) or a lot of land congestion, or both.

Think Staten Island ferry.

**Whitehouse** · June-04-10, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

There are some examples over here in the Netherlands. Some local, like within the city limits of Rotterdam, some interlocal like a high speed link between the southern cities of Dordrecht and Rotterdam or between the port of IJmuiden and Amsterdam. Especially those links really provide a speedy link between those cities as the roadtraffic is mostly gridlocked in rushhours.

The Amsterdam link uses secondhand Ukranian plane boats that lift themselves out of the water. A speed of 60km/h is easily to reach.

After writing this I didn't realize there are a few examples of this type of boat in Canada. And possibly from the same Ukranian assembly line!

Here's the Fast Ferry between IJmuiden and Amsterdam.

And here's one of the Pelee Flyers.

Apart from the colour, hardly any difference.

A Rotterdam watertaxi. And indeed, these vessels are quite nippy!

And this is one of the waterbusses who connect the cities of Rotterdam and Dordrecht.

These days the colourscheme is mostly blue.

**douglasm** · June-04-10, 07:02 PM

The Washington State Ferry System does a huge business in walk ons, mostly commuters. Granted it doesn't make any money, but.....

Both the state and private operators at times have tried passenger only commuter runs from West Seattle/Alki to the downtown core. They've generally folded up due to lack of business. The idea has merit, but in general, people just won't abandon their cars.

I wonder though if the idea would work IF there is an exsisting tour boat operation that could run on special occasions, in the same way special busses used to service the auto plants and Briggs Stadium. Be the water equivilent to shuttle busses.

**Hermod** · June-05-10, 04:51 AM

The Fort Lauderdale Water Taxi webpages:

http://www.watertaxi.com/

**Hermod** · June-05-10, 04:59 AM

This is the "dead" web page for the Hampton-Norfolk Harbor Link that failed after a couple of years of service.

http://www.harborlink.com/index.htm

**kville** · June-05-10, 06:22 AM

There are water taxis in New York and Baltimore. Both use them primarily to get from point A to point B around a limited area [[East River in NYC and Inner Harbor in Baltimore), but there are enough of them that you can always get one without a long line or wait. Both cities have other tour boats that do what Diamond Jack does, so it wouldn't replace those. I don't see it ever happening from suburbs to downtown in Detroit, but as the Detroit riverfront continues to expand and attract more venues for tourism and entertainment, I could see it being workable between Harbortown & Belle Isle - not so much in winter months, but summer for sure.

**professorscott** · June-05-10, 03:53 PM

Interesting to see this discussion come up here; the issue has been studied by transportation planners. At a conceptual level, we like it, but it's difficult to get around some of the details, specifically:

1. There need to be boat docks with access to parking and/or transit at several locations;

2. There are only so many days of the year when the water is calm enough [[and unfrozen enough) to make this sort of thing utile;

3. It will not break even so somebody would have to agree to pay for the excess cost of operation.

So basically - we like the idea - answer those three questions and service will begin as soon as the docks are constructed