Troy library closing?

**mwilbert** · May-17-10, 07:40 AM

http://www.freep.com/article/2010051...ooks-elsewhere

I found this surprising. I have had an irrational dislike of Troy since I was a small child, but I would not have thought that they would be unwilling to pay for a library.

**pffft** · May-17-10, 08:09 AM

The collapse of the real estate market -- prices of houses still haven't recovered -- has led to less revenues, so a lot of suburbs are laying off fire and police, or this.

I do wonder, when I see the stores chock-full of people, including Somerset Mall in Troy, if people are less willing to pay for things like this than previous generations. Gotta go buy some new clothes, though...

Bearinabox · May-17-10, 08:14 AM

Damn teabaggers.

**Wintersmommy** · May-17-10, 09:12 AM

We have a millage coming up for vote in Warren this summer, if it doesnt pass we are closing 3 libraries. The library around the corner from me is only about 10 years old and is on this list, it is also housed in the community center which is pretty awesome as far as commuinty centers go. This library is closing June 1st and will remain closed until the millage passes

**Hermod** · May-17-10, 09:14 AM

The problem for Troy [[and many other localities in the country) is that they budget on the basis that their tax base will continue growing year after year. If they had a "base budget" and any surplus for the year was treated like "pennies from heaven" and either saved or spent on "one time" things, they wouldn't be in such a bind during a downturn.

States are in the same boat.

The feds own the printing press and can run deficits forever.

DetroitPole · May-17-10, 09:39 AM

I can't wait to raise my family in a place like sqeaky-clean, library-free place like Troy

Seriously though, what a tragedy. What with Michigan [[not just Detroit's) massive adult illiteracy problem. You would like all the right-wingers in Troy would support a library - a place where people really can educate themselves, pull themselves up by their bootstraps if you will. Well, not in Troy.

I lived in a place without a library once [[Harrison Township) and that was a really shitty place to live.

Fine. Their bratty kids can wander around Somerset and stare at their I-Phones and grow up to be total idiots. It's just the other side of the track's version of growing up on the streets.

Michigan brain-drain? You can't lose something you don't have.

**Mipade** · May-17-10, 10:24 AM

No gov't ain't providing any books for my kids! They pull themselves up from their own bootstraps and get their own damn books!

- Tea Party

**JBMcB** · May-17-10, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

The problem for Troy [[and many other localities in the country) is that they budget on the basis that their tax base will continue growing year after year.

+1. This is why you see brand new community centers being built, new pools, libraries, and giant, fancy city halls; meanwhile the roads are undrivable, there are hundreds of water main breaks every year, there are regular sewer discharges into the rivers because of inadequate retention capacity...

City planners just love building new stuff when they can't maintain the stuff they already have. Hey, it's not like it's their money.

**Hermod** · May-17-10, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

+1. This is why you see brand new community centers being built, new pools, libraries, and giant, fancy city halls; meanwhile the roads are undrivable, there are hundreds of water main breaks every year, there are regular sewer discharges into the rivers because of inadequate retention capacity...

City planners just love building new stuff when they can't maintain the stuff they already have. Hey, it's not like it's their money.

In fairness, the roads that are undrivable in Troy are either county or state maintenance.

I used to work for the City of Troy in 1959 when it was first incorporated. We were running around surveying for the water and sewer lines to provide city services to the few subdivisions which had been built with wells and septic tanks. The city operated on a shoestring then. The city manager was also the city engineer. The whole city government was in the little building at Livernois and Wattles [[17 Mile) which is now the historical museum. The Dept of Public Works operated out of a Quonset Hut over on Crooks. Most of the retail was just small groceries and gas stations at the section line road intersections. "Downtown" was a strip of little shops on Rochester Road just north of Big Beaver [[16 mile). All the main roads were two lane. Wattles was oiled dirt and gravel.

**Patrick** · May-17-10, 06:24 PM

While at WSU I took a class at the Troy Historical Museum and Village taught by curator Loraine Campbell. It was one of the best classes I have ever been a part of due to the excellent teaching and environment. Someone at the museum metioned [[few years ago) that some asshole on the Troy City Council said that if people wanted books then they could simply go to a bookstore and that there is simply no need for a library. That was the prevailing view of some of the asshats in power.

When ~~~~~~~~~s from Troy rip on Detroit, a Detroiter can respond by mentioned that Detroit has many libraries and values books and information for the people.

**Hermod** · May-17-10, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

While at WSU I took a class at the Troy Historical Museum and Village taught by curator Loraine Campbell. It was one of the best classes I have ever been a part of due to the excellent teaching and environment. Someone at the museum metioned [[few years ago) that some asshole on the Troy City Council said that if people wanted books then they could simply go to a bookstore and that there is simply no need for a library. That was the prevailing view of some of the asshats in power..

Remember that folks on city councils and commissions are faced with limitless "needs" and limited resources. What was the context of the remark? Were they deciding whether or not to fund a library versus funding an athletic and recreation facility? I am a firm believer in libraries though I do not see eye to eye with the current crop of librarians. I think that a library should be a repository of knowledge. Current librarians want to trash a book if no one has checked it out for a year.

**bibs** · May-17-10, 06:49 PM

In November there was a proposal to increase the city tax to off set the decline in property taxes which are going to fall by 15% each year for the next two to three years. Basically, your city taxes would got up about 10% and your property taxes would continue to drop overall. The total dollar amount of the decrease in property tax over three years exceeded the total dollar amount of the city tax increase. I figured this all out at the poll using the calculator on my cell phone and I switched my vote to yes. The voters were in no mood for a tax increase and it was defeated by a huge margin.

**pffft** · May-17-10, 06:55 PM

And now, all those Troy residents who voted the tax proposal down, are screaming because nearby libraries won't let them use the facilities -- they all have reciprocal agreements, but as one of the libraries pointed out, if you have no library, you're not reciprocating.

Therefore the folks who voted to keep the money in their wallets don't get to use our libraries, thankfully.

**pffft** · May-17-10, 06:56 PM

Here's the story outlining that...sorry Troy residents, you don't get something for nothing...
http://www.freep.com/article/2010051...ooks-elsewhere

Stosh · May-17-10, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Remember that folks on city councils and commissions are faced with limitless "needs" and limited resources. What was the context of the remark? Were they deciding whether or not to fund a library versus funding an athletic and recreation facility? I am a firm believer in libraries though I do not see eye to eye with the current crop of librarians. I think that a library should be a repository of knowledge. Current librarians want to trash a book if no one has checked it out for a year.

It's a matter of limited space for most libraries. No library has the unlimited space that you suggest is needed. And in this day and age, digitizing has put millions of texts within the grasp of countless people.

I think the problem would easily be solved it the Troy city council would stop holding their citizens hostage, and have a targetted millage specifically for the library, instead of the broad brush approach.

And I really feel for those poor souls that are soon to be without a library in Troy. They better pony up the 100 bucks for a card elsewhere. There isn't a free ride. If I have to pay, everyone has to pay.

**jerrytimes** · May-17-10, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Wintersmommy

We have a millage coming up for vote in Warren this summer, if it doesnt pass we are closing 3 libraries. The library around the corner from me is only about 10 years old and is on this list, it is also housed in the community center which is pretty awesome as far as commuinty centers go. This library is closing June 1st and will remain closed until the millage passes

Good thing Warren built that multi million city hall huh?

Stosh · May-17-10, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

Good thing Warren built that multi million city hall huh?

Which also is, ironically, a library.

Bet that they won't close that one, even if it is the most inaccessable one of all Warren's libraries.

**cynknight** · May-17-10, 11:04 PM

Building the new City Hall in Warren has nothing to do with library funding, which is dependent on a millage as it's source of revenue. The millage rate was set at 0.5 mills back in 1957, which was reduced by the Headlee Amendment to around .0.48 mills.

Every community in our state is hurting for funds. Tax payers in Warren need to decide if increasing funding to the libraries, meaning more funds for library materials and programs at the four libraries is worth their tax dollars.

For the home owner with a house valued at $90,000, the cost of .85 mills would be $38.28 a year, or $3.13 a MONTH. That would keep neighborhood libraries open in the south end of Warren, allowing those library buildings to be repaired [[new roofs, energy efficient and working heating and cooling systems, etc.) . It would allow for a big increase in the amount spent on library materials - currently the City of Flint spends about $5 per person on materials, while Warren spends just over $1. Extended hours. More programs for children, teens and adults.

Traditionally, in hard times libraries are used MORE, not less. Come in to your local library and see young parents check out stacks of books to read to their little ones [[consider one hardcover picture book costs $15 or more), watch the unemployed struggle to search for jobs and update resumes online because they can't afford home Internet service, notice seniors with limited Internet skills get answers at the reference desk, see people come to pick up books and other materials they've reserved from libraries around the state, or learn how to download ebooks and eaudiobooks free from a library subscription site, and much more. Despite the Internet, or maybe partly because of it, libraries still play a vital role in our communities.