For all you retirees

neighbor · May-16-10, 05:06 PM

You know you are responsible for everything?

Everyone working today is working to pay your pension and social security while little or nothing is guaranteed for them when [[if) they retire.

Sure, it's east to sit back and bitch about your 40 year old moving back home because he or she can't find a job but what about that pension you have been receiving for the past 25 years? Somebody has to pay for it.

How could companies and governments have been so shortsighted to promise these things 50-60 years ago with no plan to pay for them in place except keep making more money.

So, now we go to work to pay for those who don't work anymore all while not being able to save enough to retire ourselves and who knows what will happen for the next generation.

Those receiving pensions will slowly pass and companies will slowly begin to make more profits because of the lack of legacy costs. Will they bring back 401k matching? Will they bring back pensions? Will they do nothing and keep all the profits?

**3WC** · May-16-10, 05:40 PM

I'll tell you who's paying for my SS benefits...I am.

I will never receive in benefits anything close to the money I've contributed since I started paying in [[since my first paycheck when I was 12.)

Because I still have rather high taxable income I pay the highest tax rate on 85% of my current benefits. I also pay the largest amount possible on my current income. Finally, I and my wife each pay a $340/month surcharge [[because of income) on our Medicare premiums, in addition to the premiums which everyone else pays. I pay in far more each year than I receive. Only in America.

The country's broke anyway, so for whatever it's worth, better save your money because this Socialist country we're becoming sure won't be able to take care of you in the manner to which you've probably become accustomed, or at all.

[[When SS was started there were 42 taxpayers funding two SS recipients. In 20 years there will 2 tax payers supporting every SS recipient.)

**Lowell** · May-16-10, 07:18 PM

Not retired, never will because I have my own business and love what I do, but will start collecting SS soon. So thank you in advance to all you young folk in the labor force for keeping that pyramid pipe flowing -- just like I have for almost five decades. If I am lucky I might even get back what I put in before the well runs dry or the revolution comes.

FYI when you are self-employed you pay the full 15.3% hit from penny one. No employer picking up half of it for you. No graduated tax mercy if you have a bad year. Even if your other taxes are zero or low that monkey is still on your back for every taxable dollar you earn unless you are fortunate enough to reach the cap.

The main difference between my youth generation and the current one is that the latter sits back and takes it and, other than a handful, seem to do little other than sending each other whiney text messages and social media posts. GOYA and get out in the streets. The politicians listen to us of advancing years. Why? Because we participate in the political process and vote.

3WC I would ~love~ to have your problems.

**3WC** · May-16-10, 08:51 PM

Lowell, my Daddy always told me to be careful what you wish for.

I'm told it's rare that someone on his deathbed ever said, "Gosh, I wish I'd spent more time at the office."

**Ray1936** · May-16-10, 09:13 PM

Yeah, I guess I'll turn down my pension and ss from now on and go back to work. It's the right thing to do.

**sumas** · May-17-10, 05:25 AM

No doubt, this is the silliest thread ever. My hat is doffed to every retiree in this country. They earned every cent that they now collect.

**Sstashmoo** · May-17-10, 07:12 AM

If it had not been raided, it would be more than solvent. People drawing it that had no business doing so etc.

**Papasito** · May-17-10, 08:13 AM

retirement is extinct.
the modern workforce has the prior generation to thank for caving in and allowing the 7 day 24 hour employers grinding thier employees in the name of "customer service", to thank for the extinction of "retirement", to thank the non existance of "pensions", and to thank for the 60-90 hour work week.

I don't want to hear any of these union folk complaining about how rough is that they don't get a fat annual pay raise while they anticipate the pension and retirement in thier future, while most of America will be working until death. For most of us, there will be no such thing as retirement. Ever.

Bearinabox · May-17-10, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Papasito

retirement is extinct.
the modern workforce has the prior generation to thank for caving in and allowing the 7 day 24 hour employers grinding thier employees in the name of "customer service", to thank for the extinction of "retirement", to thank the non existance of "pensions", and to thank for the 60-90 hour work week.

I don't want to hear any of these union folk complaining about how rough is that they don't get a fat annual pay raise while they anticipate the pension and retirement in thier future, while most of America will be working until death. For most of us, there will be no such thing as retirement. Ever.

What are you, some kinda socialist? If businesses have to work us to death so their shareholders make a few extra bucks a year, then we have nothing to say about it. It's our fault for not being rich.

**Papasito** · May-17-10, 08:42 AM

It's our fault for not being rich.

It is our fault. If we have good credit and are willing to take risks, We all have an opportunity to earn wealth. But not all people are cut out for this. This is one of the reasons I don't believe in wealth redistribution. You cant re-distribute wealth that was never distributed in the first place - it was earned.

I do believe in helping people who are in need, but the concept of equalizing all people financially is a communist idea, and kills the incentive for people to become job providers and to seek wealth.

My complaint is when the labor movement stood up for 40 hour work weeks, lunch breaks, and what not, they eventually caved in and let the employer be the commander supreme. They allowed right-to-work states where you can work 39 years and 350 days and get fired 1 day before retirement for no reason and the employer does not even require a reason to do it. Employee rights stink. Employee beenfits stink. No one stood up for the next generation and now modern America is a Wal-Mart style service economy where you work till you die and have nothing to show for it.

Bearinabox · May-17-10, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by papasito

it is our fault. If we have good credit and are willing to take risks, we all have an opportunity to earn wealth. But not all people are cut out for this. This is one of the reasons i don't believe in wealth redistribution. You cant re-distribute wealth that was never distributed in the first place - it was earned.

I do believe in helping people who are in need, but the concept of equalizing all people financially is a communist idea, and kills the incentive for people to become job providers and to seek wealth.

My complaint is when the labor movement stood up for 40 hour work weeks, lunch breaks, and what not, they eventually caved in and let the employer be the commander supreme. They allowed right-to-work states where you can work 39 years and 350 days and get fired 1 day before retirement for no reason and the employer does not even require a reason to do it. Employee rights stink. Employee beenfits stink. No one stood up for the next generation and now modern america is a wal-mart style service economy where you work till you die and have nothing to show for it.

socialist!!!

**Sstashmoo** · May-17-10, 09:33 AM

Quote: "For most of us, there will be no such thing as retirement. Ever."

I'm in that group.

**Corn.Bot** · May-17-10, 09:44 AM

I will be closing in on 60 when my youngest child graduates high school, so there is no way on God's green earth I can consider retiring anytime before I'm 70. If I can keep reasonably good health, I won't mind working, assuming I still have some form of my present job 15 yrs down the line. I like working and I'm good at what I do. Even so, spouse & I would like to bum around together a bit while we're still able to enjoy it. My one concern is uncertain genetic longevity... my dad died at 55 but mom is still kicking butt at 80, and suddenly I don't know which I take after.

We each have company pensions and a little-bitty 401K. Our inside joke about how far our retirement income will go usually involves discussion of the size of the cardboard box we'll get and which I-94 overpass we'll park it under.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-17-10, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

The main difference between my youth generation and the current one is that the latter sits back and takes it and, other than a handful, seem to do little other than sending each other whiney text messages and social media posts. GOYA and get out in the streets.

Clearly, Lowell, you do not read many of the threads on the Non-Detroit side of the forum. Seems like all we hear from those of age is how their taxes are too high.

**oladub** · May-17-10, 11:40 AM

"Statistics from the Employee Benefit Research Institute

It seems that workers have had more trouble than ever saving for their nest egg, whether it be in the 401[[k), IRA, or savings account. Some statistics from the Employee Benefit Research Institute are very telling of the state of today's American workers and their ability to save for retirement:

43 percent of workers said they have less than $10,000 in savings in 2010. This number grew from 39 percent in 2009.
27 percent of workers said they had less than $1,000. This number jumped from 20 percent in 2009.
69 percent of workers said they saved for their nest eggs in 2010. This number dropped from 75 percent in 2009.
Only 16 percent of respondents said they have confidence in their ability to save enough for a comfortable retirement. This is the second-lowest point in the 20-year history of the survey.

The money for retirement counted in this survey didn't include the value of primary homes or defined-benefit pension plans." Nor does it include Social Security and Medicare benefits that seniors have come to rely on. Selling off their homes would probably go a long way toward meeting expenses. However, these numbers suggest a huge number of aging baby boomers who can not afford to retire because they are cash short.

The Obama administration is talking up an idea of a new program that would take an additional 3-5% out of paychecks to put into government bonds that would pay 3% annually in addition to Social Security, which would pay off as an annuity. The federal government might kick in an additional $600/year under this proposal.

An additional proposal is also being floated but with less support. Under this second proposal, the federal government might sieze all IRA and 401K accounts. The money would provide funding for the purchase of treasuries in case the Chinese become reluctant customers. The seized money would flow back to its former owners as annuity payments on government terms. In one version or this concept, left over annuity money would go into government coffers instead of to survivors. This is just a proposal; not to worry yet.

Retirement Alert: The Government Has Plans for Your 401[[k) and IRA

neighbor · May-17-10, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Yeah, I guess I'll turn down my pension and ss from now on and go back to work. It's the right thing to do.

Well guess what Ray you are part of the problem. How may years have you been getting a pension? Is it longer than you even worked?

As for you comment Sumas I don't think retirees have earned ever cent they are getting paid. All you have to do is a little math with social security to figure that out.
Retiree obligations are killing companies and crippling municipalities.

If those currently working for a company or city have their pay and benefits cut then so should retirees of those cities or companies.

We are all on fixed incomes these days.

**Ray1936** · May-17-10, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by neighbor

Well guess what Ray you are part of the problem. How may years have you been getting a pension? Is it longer than you even worked?

Fair question. Retired from the DPD after 29 years in 1984. Went to work as security director of a local hospital then and retired for good in 2001. House is paid for and we also saved a bundle over the years. If I worked the system, so be it. I'm not the one who set it up.

**Sstashmoo** · May-18-10, 12:52 AM

You're getting exactly what you were promised. It's your money. We just won't get ours, but that's not the fault of the people drawing it. We can thank politicians that dipped in to it, and the reduction in child birth.

**Papasito** · May-18-10, 06:35 AM

The older folks want to be able to walk into thier local car dealership, bank, grocery store at midnight or the middle of the day on a Sunday. They don't care about Holidays, they want those businesses up and running on Christmas day. Employees failed to stand up to company greed and now employees are pawns, forced to work long hours, nights, weekends, and holidays, with health plans they can't afford, and no retirement, ever.

Anyone in this country under 40 that didn't luck out with a union or government job is going to work until death.

The Government's dream of reducing America to a 3rd world country so that we can relinquish our sovereignty and join a global government is within our lifetimes.... Independant wealth accumulation and personal prosperity is becoming an unreachable dream

**Sstashmoo** · May-18-10, 08:17 AM

Quote: "those businesses up and running on Christmas day."

Christmas is significant to folks like you and I, for many people, it's just another day, off with pay. As long as they are out driving around looking to buy something, someone is going to swing out their shingle and oblige them. The first chain stores I remember being open on Christmas was Perry drugs. Employees enticed by double and triple time, had no issue with working the holiday.

littlebuddy · May-18-10, 10:59 AM

Sstashmoo, is the cause of reduction in child birth from people having less children or because we tend to murder them?

neighbor · May-18-10, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

You're getting exactly what you were promised. It's your money.

Nope. They are getting the money they put in and then some...and then some more.

The past is stealing from the present and nobody cares about the future. Elected officials won't do anything about it because retirees vote.

Ray, it's not personal. I'd be doing the same thing if I could. I don't know the ins and outs of city employee pensions and how soon after retirement you can begin drawing a pension but doesn't all of the crazy spending on the board worry you?

I think if current employees [[gvt or private) have to take a 10% cut in pay retirees should also. That would make a nice dent in a deficit.

I guess that would be my way to cut spending.

**Sstashmoo** · May-18-10, 01:56 PM

Quote: "Nope. They are getting the money they put in and then some...and then some more."

Exactly how it was set up to pay out. The pay out would be adjusted for inflation. Following that rationale, any interest you've accrued on savings, should be returned. Past administrations couldn't leave SSI holdings alone, they treated it like a slush fund and an alternate welfare system instead of a secure retirement holding for those that contributed. We all know stories of people that drew SSI and had never paid into it and had not no business whatsoever drawing it. For the folks rightfully drawing it now, they should get every dollar they were promised. Which they really aren't presently. Do some research on what people would be drawing if past administrations had left it alone like they were supposed to do. It would be solvent today and not heading for a crash. I know a lady that just turned 62, has worked all of her adult life and paid in, she is drawing 425 dollars a month. If you think that's exorbitant, no sense continuing this discussion.

**Jman** · May-18-10, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by neighbor

I think if current employees [[gvt or private) have to take a 10% cut in pay retirees should also.

I think this is an excellent idea as long as retirees get a raise and a bonus every time employees do. A million here, a million there. Pretty soon I would be making some decent money.

**Ray1936** · May-18-10, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by neighbor

Ray, it's not personal. I'd be doing the same thing if I could. I don't know the ins and outs of city employee pensions and how soon after retirement you can begin drawing a pension but doesn't all of the crazy spending on the board worry you?

Well, it concerns me, if not to the point of worry. The Police and Fire fund [[as opposed to the General City retirement board) is and has been appropriately funded through the years. Even with some questionable investments, the losses have been of minor importance to the overall picture. Bear in mind that when you're dealing with a fund containing just under four billion dollars, you don't just put the money in a bank and draw one percent interest like us ordinary people. You invest it in real estate, stocks, bonds, and other businesses that show promise for good return on your stake. Occasionally an investment goes south, but that's the way the game is played.

As far as "early retirement" is concerned, yes, most police officers and fire fighters retire in their early fifties, even late forties on occasion. But you must realize that those are jobs that call for youth. Middle aged pot-bellied folks just don't cut the mustard for the professional demands. About the time I retired, I had about as much chance of chasing and catching a purse snatcher as a fart in a stiff wind.

On the other hand, it seems like all the punks today wear their pants around their knees, so maybe I could make a comeback.........