What happens to excess bottle deposits?

**xphillipjrx** · May-14-10, 01:35 PM

I was on another forum today and a guy was complaining about the bottle deposit in Oregon. He had issues with the fact that non-carbonated beverages don't count, with cross-border returns and whether it actually helped remove litter. His main angle was that poor people can buy pop with food stamps and then take the cans back for something like a 15-20% conversion back to cash.

I replied that the real fat cats are in the beverage industry because they keep all the excess deposits. Is that still the case? I remember a story about how the state wanted some of those dimes, but I don't know how it was resolved. What happens to bottle deposits that don't get refunded?

**bailey** · May-14-10, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by xphillipjrx

I was on another forum today and a guy was complaining about the bottle deposit in Oregon. He had issues with the fact that non-carbonated beverages don't count, with cross-border returns and whether it actually helped remove litter. His main angle was that poor people can buy pop with food stamps and then take the cans back for something like a 15-20% conversion back to cash.

I replied that the real fat cats are in the beverage industry because they keep all the excess deposits. Is that still the case? I remember a story about how the state wanted some of those dimes, but I don't know how it was resolved. What happens to bottle deposits that don't get refunded?

Those fat cats... I tell ya. Especially when you get five cents some places and and ten cents here. You could round up bottles there and run 'em out here for the difference. Unfortunately, in order to get enough, you overload your inventory and you blow your margins on gas. Trust me, it doesn't work. I tried it every which way. Couldn't crunch the numbers. It drove me crazy.

**RO_Resident** · May-14-10, 01:44 PM

445.573c Bottle deposit fund; creation; administration; deposits; annual disbursement; report of information; rules.

2) The amount paid to the department of treasury by underredeemers shall be deposited by the department of treasury in the bottle deposit fund created in subsection [[1) for annual disbursement by the department of treasury in the following manner:
[[a) Seventy-five percent to the cleanup and redevelopment trust fund created in section 3e.
[[b) Twenty-five percent to dealers to be apportioned to each dealer on the basis of the number of empty returnable containers handled by a dealer as determined by the department of treasury.

Some more information:
How is the Michigan Bottle Deposit Law escheat used?
The Michigan Bottle Deposit Law escheat [[unclaimed deposits that revert to the state) is collected by Treasury. Seventy-five percent of the money is deposited into the Cleanup and Redevelopment Trust Fund [[Trust Fund), created in 1996 PA 384, and 25 percent is returned to the retailers. Of the 75 percent deposited in the Trust Fund, 80 percent is deposited into the Cleanup and Redevelopment Fund, 10 percent is deposited into the Community Pollution Prevention Fund, and 10 percent remains in the Trust Fund. The Trust Fund continues to collect the 10 percent per year until a maximum of $200 million is met. The Community Pollution Prevention Fund is used for programs to educate the general public and businesses that use or handle hazardous materials on pollution prevention methods, technologies, and processes, with an emphasis on the direct reduction of toxic material releases or disposal, at the source. The Cleanup and Redevelopment Fund is used to clean up specific sites of contamination in Michigan. For more information on how the Michigan Bottle Deposit Law escheat is used, please contact

**xphillipjrx** · May-14-10, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I tried it every which way. Couldn't crunch the numbers. It drove me crazy.

I live in Chicago and most of my cans wind up back in Michigan. Right now there is a 3-day sale at Jewel for 24-can Pepsi products for $4.88. You can do the math. There is no way to make a living from being Cosmo Kramer, but if I am coming home I may as well bring a few cans with me. I am usually able to buy 2-3 bags of Better Mades and a couple cases of Black Cherry Faygo with my cans. It's not like back in the day when 34 cans was more than $3.35 minimum wage, but it's a good junk food subsidy.

lilpup · May-14-10, 04:11 PM

I remember what it was like before the deposit went into effect. The difference in litter of deposit items is night and day. I wish they'd go after disposable cups and fast food packaging next.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-15-10, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

I remember what it was like before the deposit went into effect. The difference in litter of deposit items is night and day. I wish they'd go after disposable cups and fast food packaging next.

Right on!!!

**mikefmich** · May-15-10, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by xphillipjrx

I live in Chicago and most of my cans wind up back in Michigan. Right now there is a 3-day sale at Jewel for 24-can Pepsi products for $4.88. You can do the math. There is no way to make a living from being Cosmo Kramer, but if I am coming home I may as well bring a few cans with me. I am usually able to buy 2-3 bags of Better Mades and a couple cases of Black Cherry Faygo with my cans. It's not like back in the day when 34 cans was more than $3.35 minimum wage, but it's a good junk food subsidy.

You know it's a felony now to do that?
Talk about overkill and a stupid law.....

**Ed Golick** · May-15-10, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Those fat cats... I tell ya. Especially when you get five cents some places and and ten cents here. You could round up bottles there and run 'em out here for the difference. Unfortunately, in order to get enough, you overload your inventory and you blow your margins on gas. Trust me, it doesn't work. I tried it every which way. Couldn't crunch the numbers. It drove me crazy.

Hello, Newman!

**Gistok** · May-15-10, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

I remember what it was like before the deposit went into effect. The difference in litter of deposit items is night and day. I wish they'd go after disposable cups and fast food packaging next.

.... and don't forget the non-carbonated containers such as ice tea, bottled water, and wine [[although wine coolers are already included).

**Downriver Gal** · May-15-10, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by xphillipjrx

His main angle was that poor people can buy pop with food stamps and then take the cans back for something like a 15-20% conversion back to cash.

Wow, I've heard some people bitch about non-issues, but that really takes the cake. The Oregon deposit is only 5 cents. LOL at this guy developing a bleeding ulcer over $1.20 a case.

**Lowell** · May-15-10, 11:20 PM

I remember when the law began and some containers were deposit some still weren't. I watched a kid on Belle Isle collecting returnables from the so many that then littered the roadsides. He would pick one up and examine it. Then the can would either go in his bag or he would throw it back on the ground. It said it all.

I city-biked at lot in those days and had to keep a constant eye on the street beneath me as broken glass was everywhere. It was in the park lawns and beach sands too. To add to the misery the infamous pull top cans came out so, not only were the cans littered, those tiny sharp pull tabs that could cut bare feet became as abundant as cigarette butts.

I'm telling you, it sucked. If anyone says this country is going to hell and everything was better in the good old days, I get so say 'Yeah but..." on this one.

I too hope they place deposits on all beverage containers. The state will be cleaner, the poor and homeless will have more revenue, and the environment will benefit.

**reddog289** · May-16-10, 02:32 AM

I have seen what Lowell saw, A certain person in Greektown about 20 or so years ago was looking for returnables, Well if they were not what he wanted,Into Monroe St they went.
Retailers are fussy with this law.If they don't have the "Kansmaker" they don't like dealing with the empties like the rest of us.I have seen a few disagreements on this.

**Patrick** · May-16-10, 08:35 AM

How long has it been 10 cents in MI anyways? I know the program started in 1978 but was it always .10? If so, that would be around .33 today. Maybe it is time to bump it up a nickel or two.

**Ed Golick** · May-16-10, 10:22 AM

Bottle deposits in Michigan started way before 1978. In 1967 I was a Safety Patrol boy at Lincoln Elementary in Warren. After my duty was over, I would pick up all of the pop bottles that the High School kids threw on the ground and return them to the local Mom and Pop store for a big 2 cents per bottle. It helped to support my Batman trading card addiction.

**Lowell** · May-16-10, 11:22 AM

I remember the 2 cent deposit too Ed back when glass was king. I made a what seemed like lot of money from them just like you did except I bought baseball cards. That was voluntary on the part of the bottlers because it was cheaper to get the bottles back, wash and reuse them. At some point that the math on that flipped, particularly with the arrival of steel then aluminum cans and plastic bottles which could not be reused.