The Pope FINALLY Admits Church's Culpability in Sex Scandal

**Gannon** · May-11-10, 07:58 AM

This was a long time coming. This guy may not be the total Nazi some have claimed.

I always say while we have breath there is a chance to learn and grow some.

Sounds like the Pope is beginning to fully understand, and is reigning in those rogue Catholics who are STILL blindly defending this institution that has clearly gone FAR astray from its original mandates.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/..._portugal_pope

Sometimes sunshine sneaks through a rainy day in unexpected ways.

Cheers

**Meddle** · May-11-10, 10:11 AM

Don't mean a thing without that resignation thing.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-11-10, 10:15 AM

Are either of you even Catholic?

**rb336** · May-11-10, 11:23 AM

considering that this pope was in charge of the office overseeing the shift-em-around strategy with sexually abusive priests...

**ghettopalmetto** · May-11-10, 11:46 AM

It's real easy to point fingers at the Pope--especially for non-Catholics--as he is one of the most recognizable leaders in the world. But to imply that this very sad and inexcusable string of events is somehow inherent to the Church and that it is the sole responsibility of the Vatican, is absolutely insane. To do so completely glosses over any sort of abuse that takes place in Protestant or other faiths [[which do not share the hierarchy of the Church), schools, personal homes, Boy Scouts, or any other venue in which adults come into contact with children.

It's disgusting that a number of priests have acted in such a manner, nor do I condone such actions. But to condemn the Church as a whole--and the Holy Father--is misguided and does nothing to solve the problem. It is important to bear in mind that most priests, and most adults for that matter, do not behave in such ways. This has been a very trying period for Catholics, but only because the Church has begun to clean house. If this abuse were all being swept under the rug--as it was for decades--we would not be hearing a lick of information about it. I'm far more frightened of the incidences of abuse elsewhere that we *don't* hear about. Granted, the PR arm of the Vatican has been less than stellar--in my opinion, due to its insular and secretive nature. It's time for the Church to do what it needs to do to preserve its sanctity, and move forward into a period of healing.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-11-10, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

This was a long time coming. This guy may not be the total Nazi some have claimed.

I always say while we have breath there is a chance to learn and grow some.

Sounds like the Pope is beginning to fully understand, and is reigning in those rogue Catholics who are STILL blindly defending this institution that has clearly gone FAR astray from its original mandates.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/..._portugal_pope

Sometimes sunshine sneaks through a rainy day in unexpected ways.

Cheers

Sounds to me like the poop's divine inspiration and hotline to god finally kicked in. Sure took an awfully long time for a direct connection to the lord. I wonder if his satellite was down? It really all boils down to PR. The vatican finally decided it was more important to manage this debacle by a PR campaign than by claiming infallibility. But, I'm sure, they're saving the infallibility claim for future use.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-11-10, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

The vatican finally decided it was more important to manage this debacle by a PR campaign than by claiming infallibility. But, I'm sure, they're saving the infallibility claim for future use.

You really have no idea what the Infallibility Doctrine means, do you?

Maybe you should keep your nose in the dealings of your own faith instead of condemning that of others. I'm sure there are plenty of tax-dodging "preachers" who could use your keen detective skills.

**Meddle** · May-11-10, 03:14 PM

But to condemn the Church as a whole--and the Holy Father--is misguided and does nothing to solve the problem.

I can condemn the Catholic Church for any number of abuses throughout history, up to an including the treatment of women as 'lesser' people. When's the last time you saw a female Bishop? How many more hundreds of years do you think it will be before there is one?

**ghettopalmetto** · May-11-10, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I can condemn the Catholic Church for any number of abuses throughout history, up to an including the treatment of women as 'lesser' people. When's the last time you saw a female Bishop? How many more hundreds of years do you think it will be before there is one?

How does limiting the priesthood to men constitute treatment of women as lesser people? Is the Church supposed to jump on every socially-acceptable bandwagon? Maybe more people would go to Mass if the organist jammed like Phish, huh? What does ordaining a woman as a bishop accomplish?

You're aware that one of the most revered figures in the Church is--GASP--a WOMAN!!!

**Meddle** · May-11-10, 03:29 PM

You're aware that one of the most revered figures in the Church is--GASP--a WOMAN!!!

A fictional 'figure'. Not a single one has ever served in any office of the Church.

Personally, I consider the Catholic Church to be one of the most corrupt businesses is world history.

**rb336** · May-11-10, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

But to condemn the Church as a whole--and the Holy Father--is misguided and does nothing to solve the problem.

it is hardly misguided when he was complicit in the cover-ups.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-11-10, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

A fictional 'figure'. Not a single one has ever served in any office of the Church.

Personally, I consider the Catholic Church to be one of the most corrupt businesses is world history.

So clearly, the Catholic Church should ordain a woman as a bishop because some atheist on the Internet says so. I don't tell you what to do with your faith, you leave your grubby hands off mine. Now fuck off, already.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-11-10, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

You really have no idea what the Infallibility Doctrine means, do you?

Maybe you should keep your nose in the dealings of your own faith instead of condemning that of others. I'm sure there are plenty of tax-dodging "preachers" who could use your keen detective skills.

Must be a catholic.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-11-10, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

How does limiting the priesthood to men constitute treatment of women as lesser people? Is the Church supposed to jump on every socially-acceptable bandwagon? Maybe more people would go to Mass if the organist jammed like Phish, huh? What does ordaining a woman as a bishop accomplish?

You're aware that one of the most revered figures in the Church is--GASP--a WOMAN!!!

A completely phantasmagorical, hallucinated, male ideal of a VIRGIN, WOMAN!!!

**1KielsonDrive** · May-11-10, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

So clearly, the Catholic Church should ordain a woman as a bishop because some atheist on the Internet says so. I don't tell you what to do with your faith, you leave your grubby hands off mine. Now fuck off, already.

Another typical, turn the other cheek, do unto others, biblically inspired, catholic, christian response.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-11-10, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

So clearly, the Catholic Church should ordain a woman as a bishop because some atheist on the Internet says so. I don't tell you what to do with your faith, you leave your grubby hands off mine. Now fuck off, already.

I haven't had my grubby hands on your religion for, oh about, 50 years or so. About the time I started comparing childhood fantasies and christian doctrines. If you don't want to be challenged about your faith, stay away from internet chat rooms and atheists. Otherwise, you might have to deal with others opinions. Now you can give me both barrels. I relish it. You are fun.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-11-10, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

You really have no idea what the Infallibility Doctrine means, do you?

Maybe you should keep your nose in the dealings of your own faith instead of condemning that of others. I'm sure there are plenty of tax-dodging "preachers" who could use your keen detective skills.

You really have no idea what the Humour Doctrine means, do you? B/T/W, I have no faith, in case you hadn't noticed. I'm an atheist.

**Meddle** · May-11-10, 05:13 PM

I'd say post #12 warrants 4 Hail Mary's and a few Hallelujahs and a sip of wine or six.

**Detroitej72** · May-11-10, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

A fictional 'figure'. Not a single one has ever served in any office of the Church.

You have no idea what your talking about. He was referring to Blessed Mother Mary, but I wouldn't expect you to actually have a clue about the things of which you spout about on this or any other thread.

**Detroitej72** · May-11-10, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

B/T/W, I have no faith, in case you hadn't noticed. I'm an atheist.

You must be having a slow day at the bar, 5 posts in a row, what no thirsty costumers to serve?

**Detroitej72** · May-11-10, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

It's real easy to point fingers at the Pope--especially for non-Catholics--as he is one of the most recognizable leaders in the world. But to imply that this very sad and inexcusable string of events is somehow inherent to the Church and that it is the sole responsibility of the Vatican, is absolutely insane. To do so completely glosses over any sort of abuse that takes place in Protestant or other faiths [[which do not share the hierarchy of the Church), schools, personal homes, Boy Scouts, or any other venue in which adults come into contact with children.

It's disgusting that a number of priests have acted in such a manner, nor do I condone such actions. But to condemn the Church as a whole--and the Holy Father--is misguided and does nothing to solve the problem. It is important to bear in mind that most priests, and most adults for that matter, do not behave in such ways. This has been a very trying period for Catholics, but only because the Church has begun to clean house. If this abuse were all being swept under the rug--as it was for decades--we would not be hearing a lick of information about it. I'm far more frightened of the incidences of abuse elsewhere that we *don't* hear about. Granted, the PR arm of the Vatican has been less than stellar--in my opinion, due to its insular and secretive nature. It's time for the Church to do what it needs to do to preserve its sanctity, and move forward into a period of healing.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

GP, that was one of the best written and most thought out responses I have read on the Church. I couldn't have said it better myself, keep up the good work.

You have to realize though that DY is home to many folks who hate the Catholic Church and all who believe in it. Many of these folks claim on other threads how liberal and accepting they are of people who are different than them. That list apparently fails to include Catholics, as we seem to be the politically correct whipping folks of the moment.

**Meddle** · May-12-10, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

You have no idea what your talking about. He was referring to Blessed Mother Mary,

Like I said, a fictional figure.

**Gannon** · May-12-10, 12:41 AM

I fully understand the sentiment, because in my experience...an individual is less likely to respond to the gentle promptings of the Holy or Great Spirit the more they adhere to group doctrine, amplified by the time they spend around said group, and again by the power of any fear they may have of the alternative.

So, oddly, the more one accepts the warnings they're taught about being outside the graces of the group [[or better yet, the Deity which oversees the group...even better when they're plural...and invisible...and EVERYWHERE!)...the less likely they are to act in any novel way which is contradictory to the agreed upon 'acceptable behavior' good-conduct award.

We're groomed for this since birth, or at least since we entered the school system...even better for those of us who endured the parochial one!

But it also seems conscience and perhaps something more compel those of inclination towards light, love, and peace to strive for better behavior.

MOST of the Catholics I know, including my own father and step-mother, are exactly that...and they are as baffled, in specific, with this seeming incongruity within the hierarchy of men they've trusted their eternity with. It IS disturbing to them to the extreme...yet they can still, in general, continue within their faith.

The larger goal and purpose will prevail, their faith will not fall when the church does...because they have allowed themselves to be drawn and moved by the Spirit to a more direct relationship with the Maker that bypasses what has become a tainted, even by association, group of middlemen.

What's funny, is that they would never admit such a thing, but when push comes to shove...and it will...they will find they built their faith on an even more solid foundation than Peter's truly fictional rock.

[[I do NOT take scripture for granted...any of it...and history proves that the early church began through James, the brother of Jesus. He was the one Paul had to answer to, not Peter.)

This is absolutely huge news, the Pope answering these direct questions with such clarity...and apparent humbleness. I will not take as cynical a view as Meddle's...although if you remember, a year or so ago I asked someone here to see if they could get me ex-communicated.

I was baptized and confirmed...so I'm still counted as Catholic...St. Alphonsus 1981, Go Arrows!...but I haven't willingly gone into a church in almost a decade, yet surround myself with those of any faith [[or lack thereof) who do selfless acts of kindness from pure hearts. If God is Love, and that may be my most favorite coded equation within official scripture, then my atheist friends would be upset that I view many of them the best examples of a loving God acting upon the Earth.

That's kind of twisted, isn't it?

But then again, first time Jesus arrived, even those who KNEW to be looking for him didn't recognize him...

Ravine · May-12-10, 02:09 AM

This mention of stills and proof could partially explain where you were coming from, with that post, but it doesn't help with the where you were going part.

Just fuckin' with ya. I have no intention of involving myself in this thread. Discussions of religion, politics, or abortion... with rare exceptions, "None for me, thanks."

However, I do wish to point out that I have long noticed that while Believers frequently show condescension and false pity toward Non-Believers, Non-Believers demonstrate, with great predictability, the compulsion to insult the intelligence of Believers.
That's funny, to me, because I have known some Believers to display abhorrent evil, and some Non-Believers to be drooling morons.

**gnome** · May-12-10, 04:50 AM

I'm a Catholic and it is high time the Church got around to clearing the air on this issue of sexual abuse. It is a move forward. I will be interested in seeing how the Pope's statement translates into action in individual parishes.

Nothing good can be found in keeping a lid on the actions of a few seriously flawed priests who used the greater good of the Church to hide their filthy hands. Priests, Brothers, Bishops, Cardinals ... the whole lot has been soiled by the actions of a few miserable people.