Obama pulls another one.. Supreme booboo

**Sstashmoo** · May-10-10, 11:28 AM

Obama nominates "friend" from Harvard to the open Supreme court seat.

This lady has never been a judge, and nobody knows her views on anything. Except some theorize she may be left of center. This is looking like another Obamacare style ramrod decision.

Quote: "Imagine a candidate for the U.S. Senate who has never taken a public stand on almost any policy issue. Imagine that her campaign consists of asking people for their support because, according to friends and colleagues, the candidate is smart, fair, and good to others. When her friends are asked what her views are on various political matters, they reply that they don't know-but that they're confident she'd make an excellent senator.

This bizarre hypothetical closely resembles the actual campaign to put Elena Kagan on the Supreme Court. [[The White House will reportedly announce her nomination on Monday.) Of course, a Supreme Court justice is not a conventional politician in the way a senator is, but being a justice involves making often controversial judgments about the law, and these judgments are unavoidably political.

Unfortunately, nobody seems to know what Kagan's views are on most political issues, nor does anyone know what she believes about how judges ought to interpret the Constitution, how much deference courts should give to Congress and state legislatures, and what role the judiciary should play in checking the powers of the executive branch. We don't know because she hasn't told us. Indeed, Tom Goldstein, a Washington lawyer and publisher of SCOTUSblog, describes Kagan as "extraordinarily-almost artistically-careful. I don't know anyone who has had a conversation with her in which she expressed a personal conviction on a question of constitutional law in the past decade."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...ry&tag=related

**Johnlodge** · May-10-10, 11:47 AM

Nominating someone who wasn't a judge to the Supreme Court? That's absurd.

Except of course for these other people who also weren't judges prior to being nominated to the Supreme Court.

Chief Justices

John Jay..............................Governor
John Rutledge......................Governor
Oliver Ellsworth....................Senator
John Marshall.......................Secretary of State
Roger Taney.........................Secretary of the Treasury, U.S. Attorney General
Salmon Chase......................Secretary of the Treasury, Governor
Morrison Waite.....................Lawyer
Melville Fuller.......................Representative
Edward White.......................Lawyer
William Howard Taft..............U.S. President
Charles Hughes....................Secretary of State
Harlan Stone........................Attorney General
Fred Vinson..........................Secretary of the Treasury
Earl Warren..........................Governor

Associate Justices

William Cushing...................Member, Continental Congress
James Wilson......................Member, Continental Congress
William Paterson..................Governor
Samuel Chase.....................Member, Maryland General Assembly; Continental Congress
Bushrod Washington............Lawyer
William Johnson..................Representative, S.C. House
Henry B. Livingston.............Military
Gabriel Duvall.....................Representative
Joseph Story.......................Representative
Smith Thompson.................Secretary of the Navy
John McLean.......................Unknown
Henry Baldwin....................Representative
James M. Wayne.................Mayor, Representative
Philip P. Barbour..................Representative
John McKinley.....................Senator, Representative
Levi Woodbury....................Governor, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of the Navy
Benjamin Curtis..................Lawyer
John Campbell....................Lawyer
Nathan Clifford....................Attorney General
Noah Swayne......................Member, Ohio Legislature, U.S. Attorney
Samuel Miller......................Lawyer
David Davis........................Senator
Joseph Bradley....................Lawyer
John M. Harlan [[I)...............Kentucky Attorney General
Stanley Matthews................U.S. Attorney, Military
Horace Gray........................Lawyer
Lucius Lamar.......................Member, Georgia House, Secretary of the Interior
George Shiras, Jr.................Lawyer
Howell Jackson....................Member, Tennessee House
Edward D. White..................Lawyer
William Henry Moody............Attorney General
Mahlon Pitney.....................Congress [[office unspecified)
James McReynolds...............Attorney General
Louis Brandeis.....................Lawyer
George Sutherland...............Congress [[office unspecified)
Pierce Butler.......................Lawyer
Edward Sanford...................Attorney General
Owen Roberts......................Assistant District Attorney
Hugo L. Black......................Senator
Stanley Forman Reed...........Solicitor General
Felix Frankfurter..................Lawyer
William O. Douglas...............Law Professor, Chairman of SEC
Frank Murphy......................Mayor, Governor, Attorney General
James Francis Byrnes...........Secretary of State
Robert H. Jackson................Attorney General
Harold Hitz Burton................Senator
Tom Clark...........................Attorney General
John M. Harlan [[II)..............Lawyer
Arthur J. Goldberg...............Secretary of Labor
Abe Fortas..........................President and Chairman of the SEC
Thurgood Marshall...............Lawyer
Lewis F. Powell....................Lawyer

**Papasito** · May-10-10, 12:19 PM

I have less issue with this nominee lacking judicial experience than I do her being another
Chicago pal getting handed a high profile position.

**Diehard** · May-10-10, 12:31 PM

Are we forgetting that she'll have to go through that brutal confirmation process? The one where she'll get grilled for hours on her views, convictions and qualifications? She doesn't just get to put the robe on as soon as she hangs up the phone, you know.

Fidel · May-10-10, 12:58 PM

Did it really matter who he nominated? The party of "Sarah Palin" was gonna come out against it. Well boo frickin hoo! Cry me a river! A black man's in office, get over it!

Fidel · May-10-10, 01:00 PM

By the way JohnLodge that was one of the best rebuttals I've ever seen.

littlebuddy · May-10-10, 01:29 PM

As a white person I have nothing to get over because Obama is black. What a joke. People want real hard to believe that people are opposed to Obama because he is black and not because of his views, that if he were white his views would not matter. If Obama held opposite views on alot of things, he would have got my vote. I am sure some white people would not vote for Obama because he is black, even if he agreed with those people's viewpoints on things. But how many black people vote democrat who don't agree with alot of a candidates views, but vote for them anyway because he is a democrat? Alot of the black people I worked with who were strong christians and didn't agree with alot of democrat issues would almost always vote democrat.

**Papasito** · May-10-10, 01:34 PM

A black man's in office, get over it!

I am so sick of people who think because someone disagrees with the President that it is automatically a race thing. Maybe by constantly assuming that it is, one would only be projecting their own inner racial turmoil..?

The President is black.
Politics are something that are constantly debated.
Sometimes people will disagree with one another reguardless of the color of one anothers skin.
Get over it.

The party of "Sarah Palin" was gonna come out against it.

Yeah, the knee jerk reactions are just rediculous. One can already assume that Palin and the Talk Show Radio crew are going to be railing on this all day long

DC48080 · May-10-10, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Fidel

A black man's in office, get over it!

I don't give two shits that Obama is black. I dislike him not for his race but for his political views.

And not that I really have to dignify your ignorant comment, but I disliked Slick Willie Clinton even more than Obama, and last time I looked Clinton was white.

Obama seems like a likeable guy on a personal level; like someone you'd want to have a few beers and watch a football game with. Clinton was an immoral sleaze and completely untrustworthy in my book.

**Sstashmoo** · May-10-10, 01:53 PM

Thats not that many John.

**oladub** · May-10-10, 02:41 PM

So what if Elena Kagan has received money from Goldman Sachs. For someone with her status in Ivy League academia, the $10,000 she received from GS was only chump change. Besides, Harvard Law School is President Obama's alma mater which donated $847,000 to his campaign.

Here is a full list of the federal campaign contributions persoanlly made by Kagan:
Barack Obama $6,600, John Kerry $1,500, Al Gore $1,000, Democratic National Committee $1,000, Hillary Clinton $750, Judith Feder $500, Ira S. Shapiro $450, Rahm Emanuel $250, Jon Paul Jennings $250, Total$12,300
Supreme Court Nominee Elena Kagan a Loyal Democratic Donor

**Johnlodge** · May-10-10, 02:55 PM

If 12k buys a seat on the Supreme Court, I'll be the next Justice.

If the story here is supposed to be that Obama is nominating someone with views he agrees with rather than disagrees with, it's a fairly uninteresting story.

**gibran** · May-10-10, 03:03 PM

How does one rationalize George Bush? was he a good guy who you could have a beer with [[ or a gram of coke)...and lie us into this war and a military tragedy and a subsequent budget downfall...yeah..BJ in oval office was wrong and it cost him...but a war in Iraq is still is costing all of America...

**Gistok** · May-10-10, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by DC48080

I don't give two shits that Obama is black. I dislike him not for his race but for his political views.

And not that I really have to dignify your ignorant comment, but I disliked Slick Willie Clinton even more than Obama, and last time I looked Clinton was white.

Obama seems like a likeable guy on a personal level; like someone you'd want to have a few beers and watch a football game with. Clinton was an immoral sleaze and completely untrustworthy in my book.

And apparently you've missed one....

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/b...bushquotes.htm

DC48080 · May-10-10, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

And apparently you've missed one....

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/b...bushquotes.htm

What you just posted has nothing to do with my comments.

**Gistok** · May-10-10, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by DC48080

What you just posted has nothing to do with my comments.

... except for the fact that when you start dissing current and ex presidents... there seems to be a slight gap in your memory.... which I was bringing you back up to speed on...

**oladub** · May-10-10, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Johnlodge

If 12k buys a seat on the Supreme Court, I'll be the next Justice.

If the story here is supposed to be that Obama is nominating someone with views he agrees with rather than disagrees with, it's a fairly uninteresting story.

More background information than a story. By their friends, ye shall know them might be one story. I don't run into many Harvard grads, any recipients of Goldman Sach's largesse, or anyone who has ever donated $12,000 to any political cause. Being a beltway insider might be another.

**Detroitnerd** · May-10-10, 04:48 PM

In my opinion, if Kagan is appointed, this will tilt the court more to the right. Obummer!

**oldredfordette** · May-10-10, 07:23 PM

In most reasoned opinions, Kagan is a right wing candidate. But the stupid and the sheep will keep calling Obama and his friends and politics socialist.

[[she's not from Chicago, Steelers)

**Detroitej72** · May-10-10, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Here is a full list of the federal campaign contributions persoanlly made by Kagan:
Barack Obama $6,600, John Kerry $1,500, Al Gore $1,000, Democratic National Committee $1,000, Hillary Clinton $750, Judith Feder $500, Ira S. Shapiro $450, Rahm Emanuel $250, Jon Paul Jennings $250, Total$12,300
Supreme Court Nominee Elena Kagan a Loyal Democratic Donor

Your pretty naive if you think only Democratic Presidents nominate people who donate to their party's candidates? I would bet that every presidential nominee for the S.C. had contributions to that party's candidates. Presidents nominate people who they feel are close to their ideology.

"This lady has never been a judge, and nobody knows her views on anything. Except some theorize she may be left of center."

Then all the folks who clamor for outsiders, and not career politicians should be overjoyed, and do cartwheels in the streets!

DC48080 · May-10-10, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

... except for the fact that when you start dissing current and ex presidents... there seems to be a slight gap in your memory.... which I was bringing you back up to speed on...

I don't need you to bring me up to speed on anything. This thread is not about George W. Bush, as much as you obviously hate him.

This thread is about the Bamster's pick for SCOTUS.

And my memory is quite clear. Is yours?

**oladub** · May-10-10, 09:24 PM

Detroitej72: "Your pretty naive if you think only Democratic Presidents nominate people who donate to their party's candidates? I would bet that every presidential nominee for the S.C. had contributions to that party's candidates. Presidents nominate people who they feel are close to their ideology."

Did I say that I thought only Democratic Presidents nominate people who donate to their party's candidates or did you imagine I said it?

Now, however, I have a good reason to oppose Ms. Kagan assuming these quotes are correct.

"Whether a given category of speech enjoys First Amendment protection depends upon a categorical balancing of the value of the speech against its societal costs." -Elena Kagan

Besides ignoring the 1st Amendment, Ms. Kagan seems to believe in expanding the power of the President at the expense of Congress.
WND found that in his academic paper, Blustein quoted Kagan, formerly a senior member of President Clinton's White House domestic policy staff, asserting, "[We live today in an era of presidential administration," an assertion that, she acknowledged, might be "jarring" or "puzzling" to some.
Kagan argued, "Presidential control of administration, in critical respects, expanded dramatically during the Clinton years, making the regulatory activity of the executive branch agencies more and more an extension of the president's own policy and political agenda."
Kagan herself, writing in the Harvard Law Review in 2001, argued that an increased presidential role in regulation "both satisfies legal requirements and promotes the values of administrative accountability and effectiveness."

A big thumbs down for any nominee who attacks free speech

**Zacha341** · May-10-10, 09:28 PM

Well, I'm not down for censorship etc. and have not decided how I feel about Kagen, but if we are going down the "a black man's in office, get over it!" road every time there's criticism regarding white house policy etc. this is really going to be a long 3 remaining years.

At the risk of being blunt, but umm-er, "news flash!": You really, REALLY do not have to be "white", a republican, right-winger, a teabagger, flag-waver, or a Palin de-vo-tee etc. to question some of president Obama decisions or his choices therein.

Simply put, people are not that easy to summarize per their opinion and option to express that opinion. Nice neat bag where it so... It is not.

Originally Posted by Fidel

Did it really matter who he nominated? The party of "Sarah Palin" was gonna come out against it. Well boo frickin hoo! Cry me a river! A black man's in office, get over it!

**Sstashmoo** · May-10-10, 10:42 PM

Quote: "Simply put, people are not that easy to summarize per their opinion and option to express that opinion."

They are if the accusers are even simpler. Simple people always point to simple solutions. The default "pigeon-holing" sure makes life easy for them. No different than a racist or any discrimination of any group. Of course our government fosters these divides by classifying political parties, races and minorities. We can thank them in part.

Stosh · May-10-10, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Simply put, people are not that easy to summarize per their opinion and option to express that opinion."

They are if the accusers are even simpler. Simple people always point to simple solutions. The default "pigeon-holing" sure makes life easy for them. No different than a racist or any discrimination of any group. Of course our government fosters these divides by classifying political parties, races and minorities. We can thank them in part.