The government will protect you!

**unclefrank** · May-10-10, 08:47 AM

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...et--draws-fire

Thank god for the armed citizen!

**Danny** · May-10-10, 09:40 AM

This was a troubled black youth killing a disipline Black adult Detroit cop with a wife and child crime. It's pitiful that the America Justice System is making deals with criminals instead of locking them up and rehab their minds. The problem of locking perps up in jails and release them quickly comes from those who paying taxes. Well, so much for the law.

WORD FROM FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Some people fought the law and they won.

In Memoriam: Neda Agha-Soltan

**daddeeo** · May-10-10, 12:14 PM

Problem is how can you rehab the minds of the people who had their loved one gunned down?

DC48080 · May-10-10, 12:18 PM

Execute cop killers!

**Novine** · May-10-10, 01:24 PM

People involved in gun crimes need to be given the same "slow" system used for murderers, rapists, etc.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-10-10, 01:27 PM

The corporations will protect you! Ha, ha!

**1KielsonDrive** · May-10-10, 01:28 PM

And corporations don't need guns to rape, rob or kill you. They do it with money. Far deadlier than guns.

DC48080 · May-10-10, 01:45 PM

What do folks on here have against corporations?

**Detroitnerd** · May-10-10, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by DC48080

What do folks on here have against corporations?

It's the other crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_crime

DC48080 · May-10-10, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's the other crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_crime

Crime is crime whether it is white collar or any other type. It is all wrong.

But I'll ask again: What do some folks on here have against corporations? Not everyone involved with corporations is a white collar criminal.

**Detroitnerd** · May-10-10, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by DC48080

Crime is crime whether it is white collar or any other type. It is all wrong.

But I'll ask again: What do some folks on here have against corporations? Not everyone involved with corporations is a white collar criminal.

Corporations are guided only by their bottom line, and that's in a very short-term, must profit this quarter sort of way. They have no stake in the common welfare, no morals, no ethics, are not guided by anything but profit. When the poor commit crimes, they are perp-walked past video cameras and thrown in the slammer. When the rich commit crimes, it is called "reform," discussed by serious faces on television, and sold to our politicians.

Corporations are never "on your side." They are completely self-interested and will do anything they can to stay profitable, even if it means fucking the innocent over and then laughing all the way to the bank.

**BShea** · May-10-10, 04:30 PM

But I'll ask again: What do some folks on here have against corporations? Not everyone involved with corporations is a white collar criminal.

LMAO ... You're asking *that* question on *this* website?

They'll be singing "Beasts of England" in here shortly ...

**Detroitnerd** · May-10-10, 04:44 PM

Ah, yes. When businessmen sit down to negotiate a deal, they both aim to stick it to the other guy before the other guy can give it to him good and hard. That's how businesspeople must behave to survive.

But when the public deals with businesses, we are supposed to believe in their kindly and gentle nature, pure "wealth creators" with nary an exploitative cell in their bodies, people who "grow the economy" for us and never wish us any ill will.

Which is the myth and which is the reality?

**BShea** · May-10-10, 04:57 PM

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need!"

Put on your Che t-shirts and man the barricades, comrades!

**Detroitnerd** · May-10-10, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by BShea

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need!"

Put on your Che t-shirts and man the barricades, comrades!

Haha. Well, that's classic defense of the "free enterprise" system for you: Label all of your opponents with a broad, red brush. Only nuts oppose corporate control! And they'd have you hanging from a lamppost on Gratiot Avenue before you could shout, "Fidel!"

The only thing wrong with that is that actual polls of the American people show they don't trust corporations. Even the conservative Gallup organization says 68 percent of Americans think corporations have too much sway today. But I guess they're all bearded, bomb-throwing anti-globalists answering poll questions through a fog of marijuana smoke. hehehehe.

**Jimaz** · May-10-10, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by DC48080

What do folks on here have against corporations?

It would be easier if you would give the shorter list of what you don't have against corporations.

I buy my Che T-shirts at Northern Sun and prefer the music on Radio Habana Cuba over Beasts of England.

**Jimaz** · May-10-10, 07:02 PM

Here: FreeSpeechforPeople.org kickoff video

DC48080 · May-10-10, 08:53 PM

Wow! Such hippy anti-corporate rants. Corporations are not the problem. The problem is people who do not work and do not participate in the economy.

Get off of your liberal high horses and work for a living and do something other than rant on an online forum about bullshit while living in your parent's basements. Open your eyes and see the real world!

**BShea** · May-10-10, 09:23 PM

The only thing wrong with that is that actual polls of the American people show they don't trust corporations.

Nor do they trust the government that the Left believes is there to dispense entitlements and regulate every aspect of our lives and behavior. Hence, the widespread popularity of the Tea Party, despite the Left's concerted effort to discredit the entire movement as a dangerous fringe of armed, racist Birchers [[which some of them certainly are). That's the sort of mindset that believes all corporations are evil and out to do no good no matter what -- the Left wing version of Birthers and Truther dingbats.

Our founders wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights as a codification of LIMITS on government, not an open-ended wish list of handouts.

For all the flaws of the free-market, it works. Collectivism, socialism and other forms of state control by self-appointed elites has a history of 100% failure -- all the flaws of our society plus oppression of human rights, civil rights, a free press, etc. How's that Greek nanny state working out?

Adam Smith was absolutely correct when he said we benefit from the self interest of others. Smith and Hayek also believed in the value of common-sense regulation and safety nets, as well.

For all the ills of American capitalism, it remains this country that the world's peoples want to emigrate to ... they don't typically want to state new lives in the various socialist worker's paradises of the world.

**Detroitej72** · May-11-10, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by DC48080

Corporations are not the problem. The problem is people who do not work and do not participate in the economy.

Another ditto head who believes the myth that all America's problems are caused by the poor and disadvantaged. What is it with you right wingers and your hatred toward those less off?

Answer this professor, how can these unemployed folks get back to work when those saintly corporations you speak of keep sending the jobs overseas?

**BShea** · May-11-10, 08:33 AM

Answer this professor, how can these unemployed folks get back to work when those saintly corporations you speak of keep sending the jobs overseas?

Did he say corporations were saintly?

Perhaps you both are correct: Desire for profit drives companies to seek the cheapest cost of doing business -- sometimes sending jobs abroad. But there also is a problem with people who don't want to participate in the economy. This is no dispute that there is a segment of society that applies to. We also face the growing entitlement demands in our society, and all we have to do is look at Greece to see where that leads.

We can incentivize both people and corporations to do better. Demonizing either is both simplistic and unhelpful. Same goes for hagiography of the working class [[I'm talking to you, Howard Zinn) and of corporations [[I'm talking to you, Standard Oil).

Incentivizing rather than punishing is the way to go. You're not going to overcome human nature -- self interest -- through coercion. Orwell's slim little story about barnyard creatures shows that vividly. Nor can you legislate an ethics very well.

**Detroitnerd** · May-11-10, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by BShea

The only thing wrong with that is that actual polls of the American people show they don't trust corporations.

Nor do they trust the government that the Left believes is there to dispense entitlements and regulate every aspect of our lives and behavior.

Losing the argument? No problem. Change the subject. Create an argument that's easy to defeat and pretend it's what your opponent is saying.

Come on, BShea. We have been through this before. I have no doubt it entertains you [[and, yes, sometimes me) to "debate" like this, but I believe you're smarter than this.

**Sstashmoo** · May-11-10, 09:58 AM

Quote: "What do folks on here have against corporations?"

Other than not knowing the meaning of the term? Beats me..

**BShea** · May-11-10, 10:41 AM

Losing the argument? No problem. Change the subject. Create an argument that's easy to defeat and pretend it's what your opponent is saying.

The points are not mutually exclusive. No where did I dispute that people distrust corporations or that some corporations have done criminal things, or at least unethical things. You're also painting with a broad brush and reducing our system to caricatures of evil little suited bogeymen bent on harming people to make a buck. The reality is, corporate America, for all its ills, pays far more in taxes and provides billions in philanthropy. It's not the black and white situation you present.

Corporations are never "on your side." They are completely self-interested and will do anything they can to stay profitable, even if it means fucking the innocent over and then laughing all the way to the bank.

And you accuse others of painting with a broad brush? The corporation I work for doesn't act that way.

I noted that the alternatives to a free/mixed market economy are as, or more, odious than the perils of our current system. Collectivism and anarchy are counter to human nature, and a lot more bloody and selfish than corporatism.

Let's not forget the good in the quest for perfect. America is a pretty successful nation, for all its warts. Corporations were part of that.

**Detroitnerd** · May-11-10, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by BShea

Losing the argument? No problem. Change the subject. Create an argument that's easy to defeat and pretend it's what your opponent is saying.

The points are not mutually exclusive. No where did I dispute that people distrust corporations or that some corporations have done criminal things, or at least unethical things. You're also painting with a broad brush and reducing our system to caricatures of evil little suited bogeymen bent on harming people to make a buck. The reality is, corporate America, for all its ills, pays far more in taxes and provides billions in philanthropy. It's not the black and white situation you present.

No, you didn't dispute the facts, you just disregarded them and went on your usual [[yes, entertaining) rant against red revolutionaries singing "The Internationale" or something. But to me it's just so much tilting against windmills.

I don't necessarily think businesspeople are all evil parasites. Individual proprietors, business partners, mom-and-pop retailers and similar small businesses often have stakes in neighborhoods, hold some things higher than obscene profits and have been good neighbors in my experience. Of course, yes, lots of businesspeople have a hard-earned edge that they use to make deals and smile a mean little smile, but that's not all of them.

But what corporation finds anything more appealing than profits? I don't know of any corporation that behaves similarly to an individual person. Corporations are designed to do one thing: Serve shareholders by making money. I don't know of any corporate charters that stipulate any goal above making money.

And I think that's where the difference lies between mere businesspeople [["Hi, Phil, here's a head of lettuce.") and corporate entities, especially the really big corporate entities. Ensconced in their boardrooms, surrounded by platoons of lawyers, buying our legislators and having their laws tabled in our congresses, they have massive power and, insofar as they buy their access, get to stick it to us good and hard.

And, the reason Americans distrust corporations has little to do with Marxist theory. The reason they distrust corporations is because the very biggest corporations have behaved very poorly. They see it when they lose their jobs, when they lose their cars, when they lose their homes, when the only jobs for their children are prison guard, soldier or cop. And then they contrast that with obscene corporate profits and purchased power that now apparently runs as high as the Supreme Court.

Originally Posted by BShea

Corporations are never "on your side." They are completely self-interested and will do anything they can to stay profitable, even if it means fucking the innocent over and then laughing all the way to the bank.

And you accuse others of painting with a broad brush? The corporation I work for doesn't act that way.

If a legal entity has as its only stated interest turning a profit and pleasing its shareholders, why would I think they are on my side? That's what they hire PR companies and internal communications advisers to say, of course. "We're on your side." "We care." But why should I believe hired marcomm guns? And, granted, some corporations are more nefarious than others; but I don't know of one corporation that saw an external cost it didn't want to ignore if addressing it cut into profits. Heck, even minority shareholders can't effectively complain when corporate boards use profits to buy back stock. What chance does a "civilian" have?

Historically speaking, the only way to have a corporation on your side is to own 51 percent of it.

Originally Posted by BShea

I noted that the alternatives to a free/mixed market economy are as, or more, odious than the perils of our current system. Collectivism and anarchy are counter to human nature, and a lot more bloody and selfish than corporatism.

Let's not forget the good in the quest for perfect. America is a pretty successful nation, for all its warts. Corporations were part of that.

First of all, corporatism is not a mixed economy. It's the system promulgated by that bald guy from Predappio.

Second, I would prefer a mixed economy in which corporate charters could be revoked, public options competed with private entities, and where government provided a European-style standard of living for most Americans. We can have a working country where the rich do not party while the middle class disappears.

In short, yeah, we can do better. Don't let's allow that perfect-be-the-enemy-of-the-good stuff get in the way of doing things better.