Is it too late to save Detroit?

[iheartthed]

Detroit --Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson says Mayor Dave Bing is "the right man at the wrong time," saying it may be too late to save Detroit.

And if the city goes, so could the region, Patterson said Monday during a taping of "Hold the Onions," the political roundtable hosted by Detroit News Staff Writer Charlie LeDuff.

http://detnews.com/article/20100504/...o-save-Detroit

That's quite a statement to make.

[Detroitnerd]

Haha. In 20 years, when LBP is dirt-napping, it will be too late to save Oakland County.

[313WX]

It is also sad he realized all of this "too late." Now he needs to stamp this into the thick skulls of his Oakland County constituents, but alas, it's probably "too late."

But late is always better than never. Instead of triyng to save or preserve what once was, we need ot re-invent ourselves [[like remembering what's good for one place, even if it's Detroit or Pontiac, is good for the entire region) and prepare to live in a much smaller region as people continue to flee elsewhere [[mainly for jobs, and for the young/educated, a more urban environment). What I mean by that is we can't build all of this infrastructure for 5 million people that we won't be able to maintain once the population decline is over...

[lilpup]

Methinks Patterson suddenly fully realized that his county's well-being was fostered by Detroit's decline and now Detroit's looming revitalization is a threat to him. His older, inner ring traditional suburbs will be okay provided they manage themselves well but all that northern sprawl is going to crash and burn.

[exmotowner]

Detroit is too great of a city to just disappear. Will be [[and is) a lot different than it was but will remain. IMO.

[ferntruth]

Methinks Patterson suddenly fully realized that his county's well-being was fostered by Detroit's decline and now Detroit's looming revitalization is a threat to him. His older, inner ring traditional suburbs will be okay provided they manage themselves well but all that northern sprawl is going to crash and burn.

I disagree - there is little evidence to indicate that Detroit has a "looming revitalization". I've been hearing that for nearly all of my 43 years in this area. I think its just more wishful thinking.

[DC48080]

Methinks Patterson suddenly fully realized that his county's well-being was fostered by Detroit's decline and now Detroit's looming revitalization is a threat to him. His older, inner ring traditional suburbs will be okay provided they manage themselves well but all that northern sprawl is going to crash and burn.

Yeah, all those folks in Auburn Hills and West Bloomfield are just itching to move into Detroit.

I think they'll all congregate in the Brightmoor or East Warren & Connor areas. Who in their right mind would want to live in the clean, safe suburbs when they could move into the dirty, crime ridden inner city?

[rondinjp]

Methinks Patterson suddenly fully realized that his county's well-being was fostered by Detroit's decline and now Detroit's looming revitalization is a threat to him. His older, inner ring traditional suburbs will be okay provided they manage themselves well but all that northern sprawl is going to crash and burn.

I think this is wrong for several reasons. I live in the "inner ring" suburbs [[i.e. Grosse Pointe) and I have noticed that Detroit's collapse is beginning to spread to all inner [[and eventually) outer suburb regions. Crime is on the rise everywhere, especially in the inner ring suburbs. Case in point is yesterday's shooting of 5 police officers which is less than several miles from GP, Harper Woods, St. Claire Shores area.

I'm afraid that Patterson's comments are spot-on and eventually the current problems of Detroit are going to spread to every affluent or "stable" suburb and eventually even reach the outer ring suburbs.

[English]

I think this is wrong for several reasons. I live in the "inner ring" suburbs [[i.e. Grosse Pointe) and I have noticed that Detroit's collapse is beginning to spread to all inner [[and eventually) outer suburb regions. Crime is on the rise everywhere, especially in the inner ring suburbs. Case in point is yesterday's shooting of 5 police officers which is less than several miles from GP, Harper Woods, St. Claire Shores area.

I'm afraid that Patterson's comments are spot-on and eventually the current problems of Detroit are going to spread to every affluent or "stable" suburb and eventually even reach the outer ring suburbs.

Thank you. I agree with everything you've said above. The problem is that Detroit's suburbs have been comparing themselves to the city of Detroit instead of comparable suburban communities around the nation.

[ghettopalmetto]

I don't believe for a second that Detroit is too far gone. It is not as if the decline of Detroit and the region is due to inevitable forces beyond the control of people, as has been documented ad nauseum. Rather, the decline has been precisely because of conscious policy decisions made by people--which can ALWAYS be reversed, if the wherewithal exists.

Detroit, and Southeastern Michigan, can be turned around, but it's going to take tough decisions, hard work, and a major paradigm shift and reallocation of resources to do so. It won't be easy, but it can be done.

[Crumbled_pavement]

I agree with ghettopalmetto. The question, "is it too late to save Detroit," begs for a definition of what is Detroit? The people, the infrastructure, the land, the government? I think Detroit will rebound but it will have a much smaller population and a different demographic. I think when Detroit stabilizes and begins to rebound it will be 500 - 600K in population. Until then, Detroit will continue to plummet. With 600K in population you will not see an infrastucture created to accommodate 1.8M people. Detroit will survive but she won't look like she looks today, or in the 40s or 50s either.

EDIT: One thing I think people don't want to accept in this region is that quantity does not automatically equal quality. There are some very nice cities that don't have 1.8M as a population. I always hear nice things about San Francisco, Austin, and Seattle. These cities have significantly less population than Detroit had at its height, yet those cities are still doing very well. It's not just about the amount of people, but what those people bring to the table. Detroit will never see 1.8M again, and doesn't need to.

[wazootyman]

Thank you. I agree with everything you've said above. The problem is that Detroit's suburbs have been comparing themselves to the city of Detroit instead of comparable suburban communities around the nation.

Many of Detroit's suburbs are amongst the safest cities in the nation. Jobs are coming back [[I have a working friend in engineering who has had three offers for interviews in the last week or so). I would say it's more likely we're witnessing the bottom because a) the economy was in the pits, and b) more people are realizing the importance of regional cooporation than ever. My opinion is that the worst days are behind, and a slow recovery [[with hiccups) is in the future. There's just too much talent, beautiful architecture, and geographical advantages for us to not succeed.

Saying it's too late to save Detroit is absurd.

[R8RBOB]

Is it too late to save Detroit? Yes, it is. It is too late to save the "old" Detroit. We as a city can't go back to the old days when Big 3 money elevated Detroit as an industrial powerhouse. That Detroit is long gone.

But, a new Detroit can be born from the rumble. However, a new Detroit is going to need three things to thrive.

1) People who care. Detroit will need people not only from the city but the suburbs to care. City vs. suburbs was a main catalyst for the fall of Detroit. The city had to compete against its own suburbs. That's like a parent having to compete against their own children instead of an adult.

2) Opportunities. People who migrate to an area do so for a number of reasons but the opportunity to prosper is high on the list. If there is no opportunities then they won't come. Period. Development of new neighborhoods won't happen because no one is moving to Detroit if there is no jobs.

3) Money. Rebirth isn't cheap. Detroit needs BILLIONS of dollars. We can talk till we turn blue in the face about how Detroit can come back but without the money, it ain't happening. Without the money no. 1 and 2 can't and won't happen.

As for L. Brooks, well he is acknowledging that he and those before him set the gears in motion for Detroit's decline. Because the hub started to rust and crack into pieces, the spokes are falling off the rim and Brooks knows it.

[Hermod]

As for L. Brooks, well he is acknowledging that he and those before him set the gears in motion for Detroit's decline. Because the hub started to rust and crack into pieces, the spokes are falling off the rim and Brooks knows it.

Just what were Oakland and Macomb supposed to do? Should they have decreed that no new houses could be built in the counties after 1946? Should they have denied all permits for construction of industrial, commercial, and residential facilities? Should they have told people to just stay in Detroit and use the industrial, commercial, and residential resources there?

[R8RBOB]

Just what were Oakland and Macomb supposed to do? Should they have decreed that no new houses could be built in the counties after 1946? Should they have denied all permits for construction of industrial, commercial, and residential facilities? Should they have told people to just stay in Detroit and use the industrial, commercial, and residential resources there?

My friend, it is what it is. I don't recall mentioning that Oakland and Macomb did not have a right to exist. I don't and never had a problem with people moving to the burbs. What I have a problem with is the city vs. suburbs. Chicago does not have to compete with its suburbs. Same can be same for San Francisco, Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, etc... Yet, in Detroit, the suburbs as one would compete directly with Detroit for people, money, opportunities and I don't have a problem with the suburbs getting theirs but they got theirs at Detroit's expense.

[mwilbert]

Just what were Oakland and Macomb supposed to do?

Detroit was wretchedly overcrowded in 1946, and obviously there needed to be additional building outside Detroit. Hindsight is always clearer than foresight, but it seems clear in retrospect that some regional planning might have been a good idea. Just because you build in Warren doesn't mean you have to build in Clarkston.

Nothing can be done about that now, and it is only relevant as a possible lesson to encourage people to think a bit more regionally now. Although it is clear that there are a lot of people who are in serious denial about the problems of the city, I think people are just as blinkered about the problems facing the suburbs. For people who think that the metro area outside Detroit doesn't have a big problem, I suggest you look around and see how many of the kids in your neighborhood remain in the region after college. I couldn't find any statistics, but my impression is that it isn't a high percentage--it certainly isn't among the people I know. Yet metro Detroit has the highest percentage of people living in the metro they were born in among the top 20 metros. Why? Because the poor are immobile and there are so few new people moving in. It is the kind of demographic you see in North Dakota, except less white.

So can the whole mess be saved? It probably depends upon what you think saved means. But when it is saved, if it is, it is going to be a whole lot less populated, and people really don't seem to be ready to deal with that either in the city itself or the region. In fairness, it is a hard problem.

[ghettopalmetto]

We can rebuild it. We have the technology....

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[wolverine]

^ I fear it's the lack of technology Detroit has. So many cities in the US are attracting types of industry most people have never heard of. I've always said Detroit has to do something drastically different to attract people.

[DetroitDad]

We don't want to attract people.

[ghettopalmetto]

^ I fear it's the lack of technology Detroit has. So many cities in the US are attracting types of industry most people have never heard of. I've always said Detroit has to do something drastically different to attract people.

You have to keep the people you *have* first before you worry about "attracting" people.

[R8RBOB]

You have to keep the people you *have* first before you worry about "attracting" people.

Anyone remember Comerica? They were a Detroit institution for 158 years and one day they would shock the entire region when they announced that they would move from the city of its birth to Dallas, TX.

In the past, a corporation such as Comerica would move to the suburbs lets say Troy and a talking head would say "well at least they didn't leave Metro Detroit where Detroit would say that once again the suburbs takes a Detroit corporation out of the city."

Comerica like Sears Holdings [[formerly KMart Holdings, KMart Corp.) told everyone that the entire region was sinking together. This was no longer a city vs. suburbs thing. No one wants to stay here, no one wants to move here.

[ghettopalmetto]

Comerica like Sears Holdings [[formerly KMart Holdings, KMart Corp.) told everyone that the entire region was sinking together. This was no longer a city vs. suburbs thing. No one wants to stay here, no one wants to move here.

So, everyone is just supposed to give up, roll over, and die? If all you have is excuses, get the fuck out of the way.

[R8RBOB]

So, everyone is just supposed to give up, roll over, and die? If all you have is excuses, get the fuck out of the way.

Sadly, we had 30 years of everyone giving up, rolling over and dying which explain why Detroit is in the shape it is today. There is no more excuses only the aftermath. It's ugly and horrible but it is what it is.

[iheartthed]

Just what were Oakland and Macomb supposed to do? Should they have decreed that no new houses could be built in the counties after 1946? Should they have denied all permits for construction of industrial, commercial, and residential facilities? Should they have told people to just stay in Detroit and use the industrial, commercial, and residential resources there?

You know good and well that Oakland County* did not sit by passively while businesses from Detroit set up shop. What they did was deliberate and aggressive... but they do not own the blame alone. Detroit itself shares that blame, and even more so the state of Michigan for not having the foresight to envision what a boondoggle it would have on its hands with a bankrupt and hollowed out flagship city.

*because Macomb was only minimally complicit in comparison

[slick]

get the fuck out of the way

Go girl, Ghettopalmetto,

I believe the correct quote is
Lead,
follow or
get the fuck out of the way.

and the poster who said we need to quit competing with the suburbs is also right ON, The "Motown region" SHALL RISE AGAIN!