Reagan a Worse Pres. that W

[maxx]

Pres. Obama is planning with the Republicans to have some sort of tribute to Reagan next year. It's going to include all sorts of bilge about how great a guy Ron was, so it's time to consider Reagan's legacy.

http://www.alternet.org/news/140438/was_ronal...
"...But there's a growing realization that the starting point for many of the catastrophes confronting the United States today can be traced to Reagan's presidency. There's also a grudging reassessment that the "failed" presidents of the 1970s – Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter – may deserve more credit for trying to grapple with the problems that now beset the country..."

[Lowell]

I could see where tea-baggers might hold that opinion Reagan was worse than W since he greatly grew government, skyrocketed peacetime debt like no one before him, ran from Lebanon with his tail between his legs after the Marine barracks bombing, made hostage trade deals with terrorists, and supplied 1200 shoulder-launched AA missiles to fundamentalist Iran, but in no way does he compare to the disaster known as George W. Bush.

[Fury13]

And Nixon was a travesty in his own right. Revisionism aside, he was simply crooked, and he trampled on the Constitution.

[Bullet]

I found nothing but love for their fellows in the Lefts definition of “Tea bagger’:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagger
If I didn’t know better, I could swear the Left is using that term as a pejorative for “Tea Party” Nahhhhah…they wouldn’t stoop to this sort of juvenile behavior, would they?

[Retroit]

I think that many people liked Reagan because his optimism came as such a relief to Carters dourness. Just like many people were impressed with Obama's speaking ability because they compared him to bumbling Bush.

[oldredfordette]

Except you know that Carter turned out to be absolutely right and Reagan turns out to have been suffering from Alzheimer's well into his first turn. He was optimistic because he had no idea what was going on.

Nixon, Reagan and Bush. The three worst ever, anywhere.

[Ray1936]

I dunno, I blame all our present problems on Harding.

[Retroit]

The best president was William Henry Harrison. Not a whole lot you can screw up in just one month.

[[He died from pneumonia one month after being sworn into office.)

[Fury13]

I dunno, I blame all our present problems on Harding.

Harding... now, THERE'S a guy you'd enjoy having a drink with.

[oladub]

I could see where tea-baggers might hold that opinion Reagan was worse than W since he greatly grew government, skyrocketed peacetime debt like no one before him, ran from Lebanon with his tail between his legs after the Marine barracks bombing, made hostage trade deals with terrorists, and supplied 1200 shoulder-launched AA missiles to fundamentalist Iran, but in no way does he compare to the disaster known as George W. Bush.

I didn't know about the 1200 missiles but otherwise agree with your points except your criticism of Reagan removing US troops from Lebenon and the use of the liberal insider word 'teabagger'. Reagan might better be criticized for putting troops there in the first place. I know of one American kid who died as he was doing KP that morning. At least by removing the Marines, Reagan exercized better sense then Johnson in Vietnam, W in Iraq, and Obama in Afghanistan.

We should heed the words of Ronald Reagan about his experience with a needless and mistaken military occupation of Lebanon. Sending troops into Lebanon seemed like a good idea in 1983, but in 1990 President Reagan said this in his memoirs: "we did not appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believed the last thing we should do was turn tail and leave yet, the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there."
-http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1023-25.htm

As a footnote, Reagan did not meet the plane[[s) bringing back the bodies of the killed Marines.

[Papasito]

"we did not appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believed the last thing we should do was turn tail and leave yet, the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there."

It's too bad Bush I & Bush II [[and now Obama) didn't catch on
Now we are way too deep into that "jungle"

[mjs]

William Henry Harrison always reminds me of Bush Sr's tough guy antics after the press labeled him as a weakling. Harrison gave the longest inaugural speech ever on a cold, rainy day in DC in March and refused to wear a hat or coat because he wanted to cultivate a tough guy image. Seing how he was then the oldest guy to ever take office, it did him in.

Best President ever was Teddy Roosevelt. Wins the Noble Peace Prize for ending the Russo-Japanese War despite basically stealing the Panama Canal from Columbia and had far more historic Presidential firsts than any President including being the first to invite an African-american to the White House, leave the country during office, own a car, ride a plane, or be in a sub. I'll give Lincoln a close second for being the President with the most integrity and character ever.

Despite creating some long term issues doing it, I'll keep Reagan in the top five for ending the cold war. I'll take terrorist threats and the costs of a war in Afghanistan over nuclear threats and the costs of the cold war. I'll give Clinton due credit for successfully taking on the enormous challenge of reducing the debt, but the opportunity likely wouldn't have been possible if we were still fighting the cold war. Forcing the reds to spend well beyond their means is what ultimately broke them. Could be a lesson in there somewhere for other governments.

[oldredfordette]

Afghanistan won the cold war. There's a history lesson Obama is ignoring.

[maxx]

I think that many people liked Reagan because his optimism came as such a relief to Carters dourness. Just like many people were impressed with Obama's speaking ability because they compared him to bumbling Bush.

And pols have learned the lesson of Carter. Only give the people happy talk if you want to get re-elected. Give them quick simple solutions to complex issues because they don't have the patience or maybe the ability to be educated about them. And when things get really bad, give them a sacrificial lamb that is supposed to atone for the sins of many.

[barnesfoto]

I could see where tea-baggers might hold that opinion Reagan was worse than W since he greatly grew government, skyrocketed peacetime debt like no one before him, ran from Lebanon with his tail between his legs after the Marine barracks bombing, made hostage trade deals with terrorists, and supplied 1200 shoulder-launched AA missiles to fundamentalist Iran, but in no way does he compare to the disaster known as George W. Bush.

Don't forget that he called Islamic Fundamentalists in A-stan "The Moral Equivalent of our Founding Fathers" and used our tax dollars to train and fund them. Consider this guy:

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/our-man-kabul

http://www.afghan-web.com/bios/today/ghekmatyar.html



...I'll let someone else discuss his wonderful work in Central America...

[maxx]

mjs: [TR] Wins the Noble Peace Prize for ending the Russo-Japanese War despite basically stealing the Panama Canal from Columbia..

maxx: Not to mention his little adventure in Cuba as head of his own brigade before he was president .

[gibran]

Bring back Eisenhower and Clinton....seems like an odd pair...but compared to Bush Jr and Reagan ...I felt a lot better ..now Bush Senior wasn't that bad...but it's the economy silly..I will hand it to Obama...he might end up there with the best if people would give him some credit for what he has accomplished..at leasthe may start standing up to foreign lobbies [[hiding here), insurance,big banks,oil and coal...we will see...I hope I am right that he will rise over freshman year.....

[oladub]

Bring back Eisenhower and Clinton....seems like an odd pair...but compared to Bush Jr and Reagan ...I felt a lot better ..now Bush Senior wasn't that bad...but it's the economy silly..I will hand it to Obama...he might end up there with the best if people would give him some credit for what he has accomplished..at leasthe may start standing up to foreign lobbies [[hiding here), insurance,big banks,oil and coal...we will see...I hope I am right that he will rise over freshman year.....

Eisenhower warned us of the military industrial complex, he stood up for civil rights in the South, and deported one million illegal aliens to provide work for returning Korean war vets. He delivered peace, progress, and prosperity.

Obama paid off the insurance companies big time with a health care bill to their liking, voted for the Wall Street bailout and is increasing the power of the privately held Federal reserve for his banking contributors, is planning to tax the heck out out us with his cap and trade scheme , expanded Bush's wars, ran us an additional $1.6T further into debt in his first year in office, and seems to be a lobbyist for the President of Mexico instead of unemployed American workers whose numbers he increased.

No wonder I like Ike.

[barnesfoto]

[QUOTE=oladub;143577]Eisenhower warned us of the military industrial complex, he stood up for civil rights in the South, and deported one million illegal aliens to provide work for returning Korean war vets. He delivered peace, progress, and prosperity ..to the United States of America.


To Iran and Guatemala, with the help of the Dulles Brothers, he delivered coups against two democratically elected governments, which resulted in decades of dictatorship and eventual political instability in both countries.

The intervention on the part of the Eisenhower Admin in Iran resulted in a police state that was overthrown in 1979, culminating in the occupation of the US Embassy.
Naturally, this event was blamed on Jimmy Carter. The intervention in Guatemala resulted in over 40 years of brutal dicatorship, and made Guatemala a permanently damaged country.


Neither Gatemala, nor Iran have ever fully recovered from the US funded overthrow of the [[democratically elected) Abrenz presidency in Guatemala, nor the overthrow of the [[democratically elected) government of Mohammed Mossadeq in Iran.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB126/index.htm

http://www.coldwar.org/articles/50s/guatemala.html

[Papasito]

You would think with all of the intelligent, talented people that our nation has to offer, we could get better quality people to run our country than the well connected, wealthy, and out of touch jackasses that we end up with every 4 years

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "You would think with all of the intelligent, talented people that our nation has to offer, we could get better quality people to run our country than the well connected, wealthy, and out of touch jackasses that we end up with every 4 years"

There are a few right in this forum that could do a better job. There are armies of people out there that could do a better job in Government, not going to happen though, it's play ball or beat it. McCain is a good study for this, compare his rhetoric between 2000 and 2008. Night and day.

[firstandten]

Quote: "You would think with all of the intelligent, talented people that our nation has to offer, we could get better quality people to run our country than the well connected, wealthy, and out of touch jackasses that we end up with every 4 years"

There are a few right in this forum that could do a better job. There are armies of people out there that could do a better job in Government, not going to happen though, it's play ball or beat it. McCain is a good study for this, compare his rhetoric between 2000 and 2008. Night and day.

If this political system wasn't so corrupted by special interest, and money the people you talk about could actually run the country well

[Bobl]

Hard to define "worse". Worse for who? A president like Reagan was great for the wealthiest, not so great for the rest of us. Not good at all for hundreds of marines, who were sent to Lebanon, and housed in a damned hotel, which was easily destroyed.
My vote for worst would be Bush, though. Harding looks pretty good, when compared to him.

[gibran]

two wrongs made a right

[Jimaz]

and three right turns make a left.