Time to Reconsider Off shore drilling in Lake Michigan?

[Lowell]

In these times of our drive for energy independence, shouldn't we open Lake Michigan for offshore drilling? It is well known that Michigan's donut-shaped oil patch extends out under the lake and would surely yield a great amount of oil to help our energy security.

[rb336]

ok, lowell, I can't tell whether that was sarcastic or not.

aren't they drilling out from land-based sites already?

[oladub]

This is backgound information relating to the Gulf oil spill which might be relevent to anything proposed in Lake Michigan. At least Lake Michigan wouldn't be as deep.The copied letter below is interesting but I found a contradicting article suggessting another reason for the failure.

"The well was being drilled and at one point the lead driller [[38 yrs experience) stopped and told the head supervisor[[foolish engineer) that he was getting in a heavy gas pocket. They had this argument for quite a while but the supervisor told him to continue. It was that or lose his job. The drilling continued and the gas exploded. I do not know if this driller was one of the ones killed but this was how it was relayed to me from someone that was on the platform during the explosion. It was human error. Things of this nature usually are. The last time something like this occurred was in the mid 60's to mid 70's from what I have been told.
Now as far as getting to the valve to close it. Picture a tremendous amount of twisted steel about 4600 feet down. ROV's are made to turn valves with a torque tool. We do it all the time. The problem is the ROV's made for this depth and current are about the size of your kitchen and dining room combined. This is where the problem lays. They will have to cut their way into this mess and remove a lot of the platform to finally get to the valve.
I hope this explains some of the complications involved. The crews working on this are some of the best in the world." -Submitted by BMWJIM

Cementing' of rig's well eyed as possible culprit in blowout

Check out the equipment used in CementingFrom Deepwater Horizon specs website...


Now that Teddy Kennedy is dead, the federal ok was finally given to put wind generation units in sight of Cape Cod. That might be a better alternative than oil wells as would developing a better natural gas infrastructure. Of course, reducing our use of energy is the best solution. The federal government could best help that by eliminating most energy subsidies including those given to corporations.

[1KielsonDrive]

In these times of our drive for energy independence, shouldn't we open Lake Michigan for offshore drilling? It is well known that Michigan's donut-shaped oil patch extends out under the lake and would surely yield a great amount of oil to help our energy security.

Right on Lowell. Exactly the right time. Superior is next. We might be able to count on the oil killing off invasive species - like the flying carp.

[Jimaz]

oladub's last link corrected:

http://www.deepwater.com/fw/main/Dee...zon-56C15.html

[3WC]

Lowell, you've posed a necessary question which may impact our future independence from OPEC oil.

I say: Drill, baby, drill. The best spots are probably offshore, but close in, to Traverse Bay. Maybe, in the Bay.

Aside from the millions which will be made by the State of Michigan, there is nothing sweeter to the trained eye than a few drilling and production platforms way out on the lake's horizon, highlighted by the setting sun. They'll look great mixed in with the 1500 proposed offshore Lake Michigan wind generators promoters want to construct out there.

A little known fact adds something to the mix. Asian carp are deathly allergic to crude oil. [[We'll soon be inundated by them.) One bbl of crude will kill every carp in a cubic mile of fresh water. Therefore, the sooner we start drilling, the sooner we can permit a few "controlled oil spills" and start killing carp.

[[I forgot something. In the mid-60's Harold McClure and Max Fisher drilled 3 deep wells on Beaver Island and determined that it's highly unlikely there's any oil under Lake Michigan. Damn. What are we going to do about them carp?)

By the way, there are several offshore wells in Lake Erie on the Canadian side. No problems so far as I know.

[oldredfordette]

The sun setting over the slick will be pretty, indeed. When the rays bounce off the carcasses of the dead fish and birds, well, otherwise you have to go to Louisiana to see such a sight.

[maxx]

Eventually, I think we will all have to answer the question, what price energy? We will have to look critically at how we expend energy everyday.

[Papasito]

british petrolium not u.s. petrolium
besides, all the legislation and regulations in the world cant fix stupid.
A mistake is a mistake.

Anyway, now that over a week has gone by, Obama has gotten around to addressing the disaster. He's going to fix the oil slick by sending in representatives of Climate Change to Louisiana, some lawyers to the shoreline to set up some lawsuits, and swat teams out to the other oil platforms to do... what do swat teams do exactly?? Oh yeah, shoot people. Last I checked, those folks don't specialize in oil cleanup.

I dont hear any of you complaining when you fill up your cars with gas and drive wherever you want to go. If the alternative energies are so great, why are they not available? It's time for folks to put their money where their mouth is, and put up those mega-wind-turbines and hydro-power plants, instead of taxing the piss out of existing energies while not putting up REAL alternatives.

[Patrick]

If the alternative energies are so great, why are they not available?

Because our collective society is generally lazy and when we get comfy with one thing, we get fat and happy.

[littlebuddy]

Is the govt. that desperate to start drilling under one of the Great Lakes and dealing with an major oil spill? How much oil could there be there? I don't think there is that much to risk it. How hard has it been to clean up the Great Lakes over the last so many years, what would it be like if there was a major oil spill.

[Retroit]

I guess even the best of us do some trolling once in a while.

[Papasito]

Attorney General Eric Holder said on Friday he was dispatching a team of lawyers to New Orleans to monitor the oil spill and that the Obama administration would vigorously enforce environmental laws.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63T42P20100430

Mr. Obama said SWAT teams were being dispatched to the Gulf to investigate oil rigs ....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6444311.shtml

Carol Browner, 1st Director of the White House Office of Energy and Climate Change Policy, sent to Louisiana

http://cbs13.com/politics/offshore.d...2.1665348.html

I hope these folks came with some Dawn and are ready to scrub birds

Oil slick poses political peril for Obama

Failure to get control of the relief effort and contain the environmental challenge could pose the same kind of political threat to Mr. Obama's popular standing that the much-criticized handling of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina did for former President George W. Bush. And unlike Katrina, it is likely the federal government will be the clear lead authority in dealing with the BP spill.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...=home_showcase

Ol' Obama & pals were so worried about illegals all week , they seem to have forgotten about the citizens!
This is & has been an environmental catastrophe, we needed a leader, not a community organizer who dropped the ball.
Bush took 3 days to get to Louisiana, Obama took a week.

Every time Obama gets a real emergency to show us he is a true leader,
he doesn't deliver. I'm trying hard to find a way to like the guy, but he's
not giving me any reason to pat him on the back ...

[Gistok]

Every time Obama gets a real emergency to show us he is a true leader, he doesn't deliver. I'm trying hard to find a way to like the guy, but he's not giving me any reason to pat him on the back ...

I'm sure you are trying real hard to like the guy.... .... all your posts seem to point in that direction....

Try changing your news source from Hannity, O'Reilly and Beck... and it might become a little easier to like Obama....

... and I guess the initial way under-reported estimates [[by BP) as to the size of the spill has nothing to do with the government reaction time.... and while we're at it, let's blame Obama for Mother Nature's lack of cooperation as well [[high winds/large waves blowing the vast oil spill towards land).

[Jimaz]

I'm trying hard to find a way to like the guy, but ...

You're not fooling anyone with that line.

Let's see. Who was it who was chanting "Drill, baby, drill" recently?

[Danny]

Off shore drilling on lake Michigan, for heaven sakes NO! It would be an enviromental disaster waiting to happen. Look what happen the Gulf Coast! The oil rig caught on fire, the platform sunk into the Gulf and millions of barrels of crude oil floating northward to the Gulf Coast of the U.S. The fragile wetlands of the Mississippi Delta and the rest of 1/3rd of the fishing industry is ruined. The people of Michigan will not let this proposal happen after this Gulf Coast incident happen.

WORD FROM STREET PROPHET


No more Exxon Valdez problem for Neda Agha-Soltan's sake.

[ferntruth]

Off shore drilling on lake Michigan, for heaven sakes NO! It would be an enviromental disaster waiting to happen. Look what happen the Gulf Coast! The oil rig caught on fire, the platform sunk into the Gulf and millions of barrels of crude oil floating northward to the Gulf Coast of the U.S. The fragile wetlands of the Mississippi Delta and the rest of 1/3rd of the fishing industry is ruined. The people of Michigan will not let this proposal happen after this Gulf Coast incident happen.

WORD FROM STREET PROPHET


No more Exxon Valdez problem for Neda Agha-Soltan's sake.

Oh nonsense, Danny.
If the situation in the Gulf Coast has taught us nothing, it's taught us that "drill, baby drill!" is the way to go! Let's move America forward by destroying out coastlines [[and lakeshores..why should the Great Lakes get a pass?) Pump that sh*t out of the ground and into our SUV's! That'll show them Middle East countries!

On a serious note: Where is the "drill, baby drill" crowd, now that it has become "spill,baby spill"? The seem suddenly quiet.....

[Papasito]

say what you want to make excuses, what matters is that the full power of the Federal Government was not implimented early enough to contain this mess off shore, and now the results are showing up on shore.

we know that the bill is on BP's tab. that's a given.

[oldredfordette]

Exxon never paid their bill, what makes you think BP will?

[1KielsonDrive]

Exxon never paid their bill, what makes you think BP will?

That's the truth.

[Detroitej72]

Exxon never paid their bill, what makes you think BP will?

What??? Are you implying that oil companies, the same ones that turned record profits the last few years, get a free cleanup, courtesy of the tax payers? [[sarcasm!)

I'm sure we'll soon see tea bagger's showing up on masses to protest the waste of tax payers money for clean up, insisting that BP and Halliburton be on the hook to pay the full tab. On second thought, I won't hold my breath.

[3WC]

Oldredfordette says: " Exxon never paid their [[sic) bill, what makes you think BP will?" Where do you come up with such ridiculous statements? What do you know about the Exxon situation? Do you have even the slightest idea of what Exxon paid? Do you have any basis whatsoever for making such an ignorant statement?

1Kielson, who knows less about most things than others, of course chimes in with his agreement. Surprise, surprise. Dumb and dumber.

The fact is that Exxon paid all of the required cleanup costs and substantial punitive damages as well.

Having been to Alaska many, many times, and owning property there, and after having talked with many commercial fishermen in Kodiac [[where I own property), I know for a fact that Exxon fulfilled more than its legal obligations to everyone.

I own a marine lien on a commercial fishing vessel owned by a friend who was a commercial fisherman during the spill period [[and he still is, one of the best), and he made a fortune working for Exxon during that period. Hundreds of commercial fishermen, who couldn't fish until the spill was cleaned up, worked for Exxon hauling and setting booms, and made far more money than they would have fishing. They're called "spillionaires."

Last September, he received a check in the amount of $44,000 as his share of the punitive damages award. He was not happy with the amount, but freely admits that he made rather than lost money as a result of the spill. His experience is typical.

There are so many nonsensical, idiotic, ignorant comments on these threads, usually unchallenged, that one wonders if it's worth reading some of these comments even for their entertainment value.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Every time Obama gets a real emergency to show us he is a true leader,
he doesn't deliver."

Bingo.. Even during the debates, Hillary walked all over him. She left ample opportunity for even an freshman debater to KO her, and he acted oblivious, not even gesturing that he was allowing it to pass with the audience. This guy is an incompetent and is incapable of holding any office. Just what the special interests wanted. They lead him around by the nose.

This is terrible the goings on in the gulf right now. News reports a spill the size of Jamaica is heading towards land. 200,000 gallons of crude per day. This is going to make the Exxon Valdez accident pale in comparison.

"It's menacing five coastal states"

[Papasito]

" Exxon never paid their [[sic) bill, what makes you think BP will?"
Where do you come up with such ridiculous statements?

Your President came up with that "ridiculous statement"
Source :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-clean-up.html
"President Barack Obama said BP was "ultimately responsible" for the cost and clean-up of an growing oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico which threatens to develop into an environmental catastrophe."

and CEO of BP
Source:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=126468782
"The CEO of petroleum giant BP told NPR on Monday that his company is fully responsible for the cleanup and any "legitimate" claims from an undersea pipeline rupture that threatens to deposit hundreds of thousands of gallons of crude on the U.S. Gulf Coast. "

oh yeah, and about your

"Exxon never paid their ... bill, what makes you think BP will"

comment....

Exxon was fined $150 million, the largest fine ever imposed for an environmental crime. The court forgave $125 million of that fine in recognition of Exxon's cooperation in cleaning up the spill and paying certain private claims. Of the remaining $25 million, $12 million went to the North American Wetlands Conservation Fund and $13 million went to the national Victims of Crime Fund.

Criminal Restitution

As restitution for the injuries caused to the fish, wildlife, and lands of the spill region, Exxon agreed to pay $100 million. This money was divided evenly between the federal and state governments.

Civil Settlement

Exxon agreed to pay $900 million in ten annual installments. The final payment was received in Sept. 2001. The settlement contains a “reopener window” between Sept. 1, 2002 and Sept. 1, 2006, during which the state and federal governments may make a claim for up to an additional $100 million. The funds must be used to restore resources that suffered a substantial loss or decline as a result of the oil spill, the injuries to which could not have been known or anticipated by the six trustees from any information in their possession or reasonably available to any of them at the time of the settlement [[Sept. 25, 1991).

The response of ExxonMobil


Exxon logo.


ExxonMobil acknowledged that the Exxon Valdez oil spill was a tragic accident that the company deeply regrets. Exxon notes that company took immediate responsibility for the spill, cleaned it up, and voluntarily compensated those who claimed direct damages. ExxonMobil paid $300 million immediately and voluntarily to more than 11,000 Alaskans and businesses affected by the Valdez spill. In addition, the company paid $2.2 billion on the cleanup of Prince William Sound, staying with the cleanup from 1989 to 1992, when the State of Alaska and the U.S. Coast Guard declared the cleanup complete. And, as noted above, ExxonMobil also has paid $1 billion in settlements with the state and federal governments. That money is being used for environmental studies and conservation programs for Prince William Sound.
http://www.eoearth.org/article/exxon_valdez_oil_spill

One final note: BP stands for British Petroleum.
As in Great Britain.

[oldredfordette]

It's funny how much time you have when you think you're right. Should have blown it off.

http://www.jomiller.com/exxonvaldez/...igative.html#2

http://www.faegre.com/showarticle.aspx?Show=2881

http://blog.buzzflash.com/alerts/632