On the eve of prohibition

[Fury13]

i didnt read all the dribble in this tread but the thing is that is law/controversy actually has NOTHING to do with smoking... stop clouding the issue with smoke

its about the rights of the PRIVATE individual business owner to make decisions regarding a legal product use on their own PRIVATE business property

PEOPLE, its not about SMOKE, its about freedom and choice...

That is simply the way YOU see it, not the way many others see it.

[Fury13]

further, you had the choice previously, to go to or NOT, to go to a smokey bar..... i guess the nanny state knows whats best for you, you CANNOT deny this: you HAD a choice before, now they made the decision FOR you........

Your statement assumes that smoking and drinking naturally go together. That line of thinking is erroneous.

Only smokers believe that smoking and drinking go together.

And now, most of the population is finally free to frequent bars and nightclubs without discomfort or ill effects. I personally know many people who have told me that they will go out more now because of the new law. They don't feel constrained anymore.

I went out to a bar last night [[business was good, by the way... plenty of people there) and enjoyed a drink and tasty pizza without that added nasty smoky flavoring. My clothes didn't reek when I got home, either. Oh, and there were four or five smokers outside by the door enjoying their cigarettes and engaging in pleasant conversation. Everyone was happy.

Everyone is going to adapt to this over time. It is becoming the norm across the country.

[pffft]

Goose is also conveniently forgetting about the freedom of folks who want to go to bars and drink, to be free from cigarette smoke and the annoyance at best and fatal illnesses at worse that it causes.

The nonsmoking drinkers, in Goose's world, only have one choice, to not go to bars. Wow...thanks for that "choice." Since we are the majority, we want bars and restaurants to be smokefree. It's done.

[Retroit]

It only makes sense that a restaurant which must abide by certain health and sanitation laws regarding the food it serves should also be regulated as far as the air it serves.

[R8RBOB]

DanFromDetroit had the question of the day

why does the state have to take away their rights?

What rights have been taken? A smoker can go to the nearest store or gas station and purchase the same pack of cigarettes that he or she purchased the day before. That smoker can light up in his or her car, in their home, in their garage, on a natural walk, etc... They still have that right as a smoker.

What they don't have the right to do is share their smoke with others who wish not to breathe in the smoke in a public setting. As an former smoker, I know the feeling of drinking and smoking but that day is over.

Now, in regards to the law, I suppose Michigan could have done what California did in regards to the smoking ban. They could have told bars that they could designate a room away from the public as a smoking room. The room could allow smokers to puff away among themselves and the patrons in the bar would not be affected.

[princealbert]

I keep thinking, is this the day the smokers start finding out how things REALLY taste?

And we all get to smell what the Magic Stick really smells like.

[princealbert]

You just can't smoke in enclosed areas with non-smokers.

Except in open-air patios? And casinos?

[R8RBOB]

And we all get to smell what the Magic Stick really smells like.

I remember when I quit, I could smell the sickening smell of nicotine on a smoker. I said to myself; "damn, that was me all those years."

[R8RBOB]

Except in open-air patios? And casinos?

Yes, that damn exception. The only thing I don't like about the law. It should have been a total ban.

[The Dude]

Yes, that damn exception. The only thing I don't like about the law. It should have been a total ban.

Anyone think that we are on the primrose path to total tobacco prohibition or do you think it would be as stupid as the alcohol prohibition?

[Vic_doucette]

I went out last night to a place where the ban was being ignored. People were laughing and joking about it. I asked the staff to make the smokers comply with the new law and they refused to do so. I left.

[R8RBOB]

Anyone think that we are on the primrose path to total tobacco prohibition or do you think it would be as stupid as the alcohol prohibition?

First of all, Prohibition didn't make it a crime to comsume alcohol. You just couldn't buy it. After realizing people like Joe Kennedy and Al Capone was making millions bootlegging liquor via Canada and the government wasn't getting that sin tax then did repealing Prohibition because a reality.

Banning cigarettes is a pipedream only in your mind. The state needs that sin tax on tobacco so if you are smoker you will be able to buy your cigarettes until doomsday. Do not confuse not being able to smoke in a bar with not being able to buy a pack of cigarettes.

[Goose]

Goose is also conveniently forgetting about the freedom of folks who want to go to bars and drink, to be free from cigarette smoke and the annoyance at best and fatal illnesses at worse that it causes.

The nonsmoking drinkers, in Goose's world, only have one choice, to not go to bars. Wow...thanks for that "choice." Since we are the majority, we want bars and restaurants to be smokefree. It's done.

yeah, because its right to be able to go anywhere you chose and have the environment tuned to your specifications....

why didn't smoke free bars and resturants just happen naturally since the majority of people going would have supported it??

why did non-smokers continue to frequent bars and resturants that allowed smoking, only to complain about the health issues and smell, hypothetically, if the resturant served water and washed its food with water that would cause diareha and this was public knowledge, and it actually said it in the menu [[causes diareha), would you go to the resturant??? then why would you go to a resturant that allowed cancerous smelly smoking??

i'm not a smoker, the law actually benefits me as i also don't like second hand smoke, but im not so blinded by my "benefit" that i can't see the reality...

prior

you HAD a choice to go to a bar with smoke or NOT to go
the barowner HAD a choice to allow smoking or NOT

now, since the simpletons couldn't stay away from these bars that were causing you such cardiac and respiratory distress, the nanny state has taken the choice away from the business owner

any ones arguement that tries to equate this to sanitation and food handling laws are making apples to oranges comparison, with improper sanitation and food handling the food you may be served can harm you - UNKNOWINGLY, you don't know and it isn't explained to you that the cook just took a crap and didn't wash his hands, on the other hand, the minute you walk into a smokey bar, you know there is smoke, you know the dangers, so you have a choice at that point....

[Fury13]

...on the other hand, the minute you walk into a smokey bar, you know there is smoke, you know the dangers, so you have a choice at that point....

You're saying, then, that we should just expect to endure smoke if we choose to go to a bar. You're saying that smoke belongs in bars.

Again, that leaves nonsmokers no choice. And that's how it was for decades. You want to go to a bar? Put up with the smoke.

Bar owners were not going to make this change on their own. They were reluctant to alienate a built-in clientele. It had become traditional for smokers to congregate in drinking establishments [[dating from the old days, when nearly everyone smoked), and in a percentage far higher than in the general population.

So, for years, the larger number of nonsmokers felt that they had to avoid going to bars. Bars were smokers' territory. But now, the playing field is level, and nonsmokers can spend more time and money in the pub of their choice.

[Retroit]

I see another benefit besides health: less wait time at busy restaurants. Since smokers tend to linger around after their meal to smoke, now they will leave sooner and free up their table.

[The Dude]

First of all, Prohibition didn't make it a crime to comsume alcohol. You just couldn't buy it. After realizing people like Joe Kennedy and Al Capone was making millions bootlegging liquor via Canada and the government wasn't getting that sin tax then did repealing Prohibition because a reality.

Banning cigarettes is a pipedream only in your mind. The state needs that sin tax on tobacco so if you are smoker you will be able to buy your cigarettes until doomsday. Do not confuse not being able to smoke in a bar with not being able to buy a pack of cigarettes.

Yes, I know it was OK to drink. Myself, I don't smoke or believe there should be a prohibition, I was just asking what other people thought.

[princealbert]

If there was adequate ventilation in bars and restaurants, public smoking would not be as big an issue. To adequately ventilate, there needs to be an investment in hardware, i.e. up-to-date HVAC systems. In addition, the utility bills of said establishments would skyrocket from running fresh air HVAC systems. Maybe the state could have sold licenses requiring a standard air quality in an establishment that wished to remain smoke-friendly as part of the no smoking bill. That might have actually stimulated employment. I'm sure DTE wouldn't complain either. Bar owners could make the hard choice: reinvest in their business and remain a smoking establishment or don't do anything and become non-smoking. I guess that's no solution for those folks who gag at the whiff of tobacco smoke, but at least there wouldn't be the lingering haze that is probably the real health concern.

[lincoln8740]

Except in open-air patios? And casinos?

You are wrong sir--There is no smoking in open air patios and there is really no smoking in any open space with a drink in your hand. Oh the travesty being able to drink and smoke outside!!!!!

Thank God a lot of bars are choosing to ignore the law[[ I am talking about dive bars, shot and beer bars, you know the kind that if you asked for an appletini they would either slap you or throw you out on principle!)

I can't wait to go snowmobiling up north next winter too see how many bars are actually non-smoking. I am going to say out of the five we usually go to on our trip 1 will be non-smoking.

[mauser]

Do you like smoking? Vote yes or no. Marijuana? Vote yes or no. Gay marriage? yes or no. etc etc

Nobody dies from marijuana. Period.

Nobody dies from being gay. Period.

Cigarette smoke kills anything it can touch. Period.

[mauser]

[quote=lincoln8740;142622]Thank God a lot of bars are choosing to ignore the law[quote]

It will only cost them their liquor license, after a few calls to the Health Department.
Im sure they are all bad ass enough to give up their licensing so you can smoke.

[lincoln8740]

[quote=mauser;142640][quote=lincoln8740;142622]Thank God a lot of bars are choosing to ignore the law

It will only cost them their liquor license, after a few calls to the Health Department.
Im sure they are all bad ass enough to give up their licensing so you can smoke.

Incorrect Liquor license will not be affected
Ability to serve food--maybe

And yep we all know county officials that work after 5pm.
Most of them do right?

[Johnlodge]

We rode to town both Friday and Saturday nights for some drinks. Looked about the same, minus the smoking. Guess the world didn't end after all. I admit I did occasionally enjoy a nice deep whiff of secondhand smoke, since it's all I permit myself these days.

I wonder how places like Gusoline Alley will deal with the fact that there's no longer a dense cloud of smoke to cover up what the place really smells like. Yikes!

[Vic_doucette]

I've already filed my complaint. The official who took it seemed very concerned and asked detailed questions about what happened that evening, what I did and what the restaurant/staff did [[and didn't) do. It seemed as though he wanted to take care of it.

[Novine]

"its about the rights of the PRIVATE individual business owner to make decisions regarding a legal product use on their own PRIVATE business property"

Sounds like the same arguments that were trotted out to keep minorities out of businesses across the US until civil rights legislation was passed to stop these "private" owner from taking such actions with their "private" businesses. You'll have to come up with something better than what you've put up.

[kryptonite]

Saturday night was wonderful, sitting in a pub in Detroit with no smoke. My clothes and hair didn't smell like other people's cigarettes either, personally I think it's fantastic. I met a few friends that also don't smoke to enjoy the experience for the first time in Michigan.