I worked at a Detroit Car dealership

[Dfd]

If you work [[or used to work) at a car dealer in Detroit, tell us about what it was like. What changes did you see over the years?

[Eastburn]

I was a 19 year old salesman at Riverview Dodge [[Grosse Pte.) in 1984. You couldn't give a Dodge away in 1984. Competition among salesmen was quietly fierce. If you weren't sharp another guy would "skate" you & steal your "up".

[shovelhead]

Have been in car dealerships since 1970. Worked in the city from 71-72 at Packer Pontiac on Livernois.

Changes? Lots. How about what does not change? The hours. Long. Benefits, not bad except no pension except for 401K if offered and insurance until you retire and take Social Security, then it's Medicare, nothing in between.

Not crying, it was my choice, but if I had it to do all over again, I would have taken the job[[s) at Michigan Bell, Ford [[UAW), Consumers Power or the LEO job that I turned down.

[econ expat]

There used to be ALOT of new car dealers in Detroit area.
They really didn't take away the local trade from each other.

Biggest change, and a huge loss for Detroit was in the 70's when the new car destination charge was 'evened out' all over the country.
Up until then people flew in from all over the country to buy their new cars in Detroit, since the destination fee was minimal. Many dealers ran a shuttle to the airport and train station. The savings weren't real huge, but alot of buyers are proud to tell their friends they saved maybe $100.[[after their own transportation charges)
Alas, then the Big 3 discovered THEY could save $$$ by assembling the cars in other parts of the country, since they no longer received the destination charge on the distance from assembly.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Have been in car dealerships since 1970. Worked in the city from 71-72 at Packer Pontiac on Livernois.

Changes? Lots. How about what does not change? The hours. Long. Benefits, not bad except no pension except for 401K if offered and insurance until you retire and take Social Security, then it's Medicare, nothing in between.

Not crying, it was my choice, but if I had it to do all over again, I would have taken the job[[s) at Michigan Bell, Ford [[UAW), Consumers Power or the LEO job that I turned down.

Didn't Packer Pontiac eventually turn into Porterfield Wilson Pontiac?

[luckycar]

The change I see at our little "B" lot,is an informed customer.By this I mean the use of the interweb and all the info thats out there.Carfax,Kelly Blue Book,Edmonds are all mentioned by customers during the back and forth up to the buy or no buy decision.Many people use this info in an informed way before purchasing a vehicle,which is good.Others still expect a $2000 car to be like new,which it can never be.
Of course the use of the internet has changed the way cars are made available to the public.TV,print and radio ads still work,but most people today are getting their info online.Thats where our ads are.The future?Who knows....

[Gary]

@Cincinnatti Kid...yep, Packer Pontiac on Livernois later became Porterfield Wilson Pontiac.

[Retroit]

Biggest change, and a huge loss for Detroit was in the 70's when the new car destination charge was 'evened out' all over the country.

That's interesting. Do you have any more info on this? Who instigated the "evening-out"? And why? It seems only fair that the further you are from the factory, the more you should pay for delivery.

[DC48080]

That's interesting. Do you have any more info on this? Who instigated the "evening-out"? And why? It seems only fair that the further you are from the factory, the more you should pay for delivery.

That was done to level the playing field amongst dealers. Those that were located farthest from the plants would now have their cars cost the same as the Detroit dealers cars did.

[DC48080]

I was a 19 year old salesman at Riverview Dodge [[Grosse Pte.) in 1984. You couldn't give a Dodge away in 1984. Competition among salesmen was quietly fierce. If you weren't sharp another guy would "skate" you & steal your "up".

Are you talking about the Riverview Dodge that was at Lakepointe and Jefferson? If so, it was not Riverview Dodge in 1984.

It became Tessier Oldsmobile in 1973. It remained an Olds dealer under various owners until it closed in the mid '80s. It was torn down a few years later.

[shovelhead]

@Cincinnatti Kid...yep, Packer Pontiac on Livernois later became Porterfield Wilson Pontiac.

Kinda sorta, Packer in about 1975 moved to their new location on Opdyke in Auburn Hills, later becoming Auburn Pontiac.This was after his advertising campaign, "Detroit, I'm Here For Good", born in the post 1967 era of businesses leaving the city. Not to be hard on the Packer family, they did a lot for the city in their day. One of their legacies was the forming of the Hundred Club.

I feel that they saw better opportunities and moved on, following the population shift to the suburbs. The Detroit location was beset with a LOT of problems, failing old buildings, no parking spaces for employees or customers, a hodge-podge of lots for storage of new cars/used cars, and security issues.

Porterfield Wilson moved to the Packer location, 18650 Livernois from his previous building on Grand River and Prevost. That was formerly Glenn Pontiac, Porterfield Wilson having bought that business in the early 70's.

Packer later sold that Opdyke location to the same group that owned Quality Pontiac.

Personally, I never understood why Mr. Wilson bought that building. It was built in the late 1940's, state of the art for it's day. But it's day was well past, even in the early 1970's. I once found some old postcards of the dealership in a pile upstairs above the parts department. Excepting for the cars on the hoists, it still looked the same almost thirty years later, even down to the same chalk board in the service department and the color of the walls. Hot in summer, cold in winter, dark, poor ventilation. Customers cars were parked across Livernois in a storage lot shared with used cars and collision shop cars, at least in my time there. What an image this place projected for the dealership and Pontiac Motor Division.

The last time I was in there, before it was torn down was in 1990, as part of an inventory crew to finalize the closing of Palmer Pontiac. Palmer was a figurehead put in to keep the store open while GM searched for a buyer as they desparately wanted to keep that franchise open in the city. And it still looked like it did when I left in 1972.

[bragaboutme]

I, used to work at Dalgliesh Cadillac on woodward in 2000. I was on the used car side as a porter. It's closed now, but it did real good the time I was working there. I think they got a raw deal when G.M. put them on the list of dealerships to close. I remember when the new Cadillac escalade , and DTS came out. There were so many people buying, it was crazy. I think G.M. hit big with those designs.

[econ expat]

Packer had such a booming biz, Porterfield Wilson was probably expecting the same. Yep, that was an outdated complex, wasn't it? But all the Livernois dealerships were dated, and most closed up by 85'. Even Floyd Rice Ford couldn't turn a profit anymore.
About mid-80's, Wilson's new car inventory was noticeably slim. Perhaps he invested too much in the marina project. Not long after, he passed away. His widow kept the Honda franchise, moved it to Ferndale.
GM was stuck with the real estate, and really wanted to keep a Pontiac dealer on Livernois. Dick Harris passed on the offer, as many others did.
GM put in a 'dealer' to baby-sit the dealership till it could be sold - Don McIntyre, retired owner of Superior Olds. It was funny to hear him answer pages for 'Mr. Palmer' ., He told me the Palmer name was just a generic name chosen because of nearby Palmer Park.
The Packer family had dealerships in several states, especially Michigan and Florida. They sold/closed the Flint Pontiac dealership [[Superior) to Al Serra Buick in Grand Blanc a couple years ago. Lucked out, since it was before GM discontinued Pontiac brand, pulled the bankruptcy scam and avoided buying out dealers' franchises. GM 'paid off' many Olds dealers when that brand was cut.

[shovelhead]

The Serra group didn't lose completely, the Cadillac franchise was dualed with the Pontiac at Superior.

And to add to the Palmer story, I had a third party call me to inquire if I would have been interested in becoming the parts manager there. The whole story of the dealership was related to me, and that even though GM "owned" the point, I would not be a GM employee, and no guarantee that I would be retained upon appointing a new owner.
The no guarantee, this is standard in dealerships when ownership changes. Been through this before, sometimes you get the elevator, other times the shaft.

Too many negatives, condition of the facility, uncertain job future, lousy job market in the early 90's [[I was at another dealership less than a year making decent money)no contract, and no promise of GM employment. Coupled with driving from the far northwest burbs, pretty unattractive offer.

A few months later, the plug was pulled. I went in one more time, on the inventory crew to make the termination return of parts inventory.

I wandered around during break time, taking in all the sights. Turn the clock back twenty years, the place still looked the same. In fact, I found my initials magic markered on the ceiling above the north shop that I put there in 1971.

[econ expat]

Alas, those of us who had no family 'at the plant' bid did work for dealers got no pension, no job guarantees. Before the 401k s, there was nothing for retirement contributed by most dealers.
When GM ran factory owned GMC dealers in Pontiac and Dearborn, I heard those employees were actual 'vested' GM employees.
Not so with the dealerships the manufacturers 'take over' until sold, and there have been more of those than people realize. Name on the building doesn't always tell who really owns the place.

3 degrees there, shovelhead.
I was approached by an employee to 'help out' with the service department warranty billing at Palmer, the manager at the time had no knowledge of auto service.
Then I met with Don. Knew him from Superior on 7 Mile, and Brighton. He didn't quite say it, but the message was "You really don't want to work here, this place is dying"
Most of the employees seemed zombie like, didn't care about much at all. And some I recognized from other dealers as well, substance abusers? On the way down, unable to get a better job.

Glad I passed, it was only a matter of months before the place closed. No reason to stay open if no cars get sold.

[econ expat]

I, used to work at Dalgliesh Cadillac on woodward in 2000. I was on the used car side as a porter. It's closed now, but it did real good the time I was working there. I think they got a raw deal when G.M. put them on the list of dealerships to close. I remember when the new Cadillac escalade , and DTS came out. There were so many people buying, it was crazy. I think G.M. hit big with those designs.

Were you brave enough to ride that unique conveyor belt elevator?
I got such a kick out of that, never took the stairs or the golf cart shuttle ride up the ramp when I visited the Body Shop on the 3rd floor. I always hid from the service tower and went around back to the 'elevator'.

A co-worker refused to return to Dalgleish, and sent me from then on [[I did not mind). He was too heavy for the poor golf cart's battery power, could not climb stairs, and had a close call driving his own car up that narrow ramp. [[met another car on the curve that was going DOWN the ramp.) Guess that's the reason management preferred visitors ride up in the golf cart, driven by someone who knew when to look for oncoming traffic.

Must have taken a real pro to negotiate that ramp with the older tail fin Caddys or them Escalades.

[shovelhead]

econ,

You and I may have crossed paths at one time or another.

Are you still in the business? I am. Out of the metro area but still in Oakland County.

Yes, you are correct on the benefits to the GMC Truck Center employees. From what I understood at the time, the guys at Pontiac Retail in Pontiac were under UAW contract also. I never had the pull to get into one of the factory jobs though. One of my friends did, when the Dearborn center closed he went to the P chassis facility on Riopelle. Lost track of him about ten or so years back.

Long hours, no benefits, you serve at the pleasure of supervisors and are out on a whim. Average day ten hours. At one we worked on Mondays [[blue Monday) from 7:30 AM until 9 PM. Then back in Tuesday at 7:30 again, but out at 6.

At one dealership, we had to dismiss a employee because the dealer thought he made a "pest" of himself at the Christmas party. We felt bad for the fellow, a young kid that had low self esteem and just wanted reassurance that he was doing a good job. That particular dealer was a p**** which in many cases is a prerequisite to being a dealer I think. Not all, but a lot are.

I quit being in management over twenty years ago. From '76 to '88 in three dealerships. After the last go around as a manager with a dealer that rewarded his management team with PAY CUTS for the success we had in turning his dealership's reputation around, I had enough.But his hired consultant said we were overpaid for what we did. Thanks a lot for taking home paperwork every night, delivering parts to wholesale accounts at night all on my own time [[long story, rural area out west) and being on site six full days a week with no lunch break. The rewards I got for what I gave up.

Figured that I would be a counterman until I retire after that. Still am today, fourty years after starting.

[bragaboutme]

Econ, the first time I rode that elevator thing it was crazy[[ like jump rope) I had to wait till the right moment. When I got used to it that was the only way I traveled through the floors. I remember pulling the used cars in and out with no problems. long story short I had Mr. Dalgliesh brand new Cadillac DTS to detail. I had no problem pulling in all the other cars, but that one day I had his car and I nicked it. Cleaned the car and everything, had it gleaming. I told Keith and he told me don't worry about it. They shot it up to the body shop and fixed it quick[[small nick he wouldn't of noticed). It was just a good family that owned the dealership. Good times. One of the many reasons I love Detroit. It's just crazy how many people got a bad deal out of the auto industry down size. Me working there showed that alot of good people lost alot, and not just the dealerships. I have a better job, but I really did like working for Dalgleish. I got alot of stories that's just one.

[econ expat]

Econ, the first time I rode that elevator thing it was crazy[[ like jump rope) I had to wait till the right moment. When I got used to it that was the only way I traveled through the floors. I remember pulling the used cars in and out with no problems. long story short I had Mr. Dalgliesh brand new Cadillac DTS to detail. I had no problem pulling in all the other cars, but that one day I had his car and I nicked it. Cleaned the car and everything, had it gleaming. I told Keith and he told me don't worry about it. They shot it up to the body shop and fixed it quick[[small nick he wouldn't of noticed). It was just a good family that owned the dealership. Good times. One of the many reasons I love Detroit. It's just crazy how many people got a bad deal out of the auto industry down size. Me working there showed that alot of good people lost alot, and not just the dealerships. I have a better job, but I really did like working for Dalgleish. I got alot of stories that's just one.

That building was full of so many stories. History. Gone. But I suspect they had the offer from WSU on the table for the building for awhile. I heard the franchises were not to be pulled until later this year. And now, too little, too late, GM is reconsidering some of the rejected appeals.

I only met Charley Dalgleish, he was popular with the employees.

Aha! So it was not an exaggerated memory of mine, that 'elevator'. I tried to describe it in other posts awhile ago.

[econ expat]

Guess I was ahead of the curve once again.
1979 times were getting tough,no jobs, I left Detroit to run family's dealership out west. By 1982, whew, Detroit took a hit.I came back about 85'.
2004 same story. Fewer opportunities around Detroit. Said "will relocate" on the resume' and relocate I did. Glad I didn't stay 3-4 more years.

I'm not working for auto dealers now, haven't since I left in 04'.
Around Detroit, I worked for more than a dozen over the years [[well, no pension, so if a better gig came along...) And consulted many more. Never worked sales, surprising since I grew up in the biz. Worked in management, longer than I planned... Have been a GM, Service Mgr, Service Director, Body Shop Mgr, etc.
I knew a guy that had worked his way up to General Mgr for many years, stayed at Floyd Rice to the end.After that, he wanted to 'take it easy'. Got a job as parts driver at his friend's dealership. He was too 'over qualified', they soon made him office manager, then General mgr. When the owner of Stark Hickey died, he bought the place to 'keep his job'.

Know the feeling.After all the years of management and the pressures, I tried to get work at the parts counter, used to pull my own parts at the family's 'store' when I ran Service and Parts. . Didn't care for service sales as its done now. And every damn time, I'd be offered a job as a Service Manager, Service Sales, Body Shop Manager or Estimator because I 'knew billing and estimating'.

[CLAUDE G]

Well I own the building of what used to be called Verhoven Chevrolet back in the late 1970's.

We still have posters and other chevrolet parts, and promotional matterials laying around the second floor from 30 years ago when it used to be a dealership.

[shovelhead]

Verhoven, a long forgotten name. How much does it retain of the old dealership inside? I still remember the elephant logo dealer decals.

econ, I went out west too, in late 1979. I left a suburban dealership where I was the assistant parts manager and went out west to a three line GM dealership as parts manager. Small town, 10k population. Was there until a series of bad business moves killed the dealership. The owner was a great guy to work for, he expected a lot but you got a lot in return.

After he closed the doors [[GM pulled the franchise during the sale) I went to work for another dealer. The snake was his nickname around town, found out it was true. Burned me for my last commission check, a real upstanding guy.

Once in the late 90's I was at a training seminar with some GM personel. One previously was his dealer rep by coincidence. He smiled and said "So you knew him, a great guy, huh?" Well, after our conversation he had a different view at least from my point of view.

That period of time was when it was the closest for me to get out of the car business. I had a offer to go into law enforcement from the city's police chief. I should have taken it, but I got cold feet at the last minute and a wife that was against it. So I went with the easy way out.

[CLAUDE G]

The old dealership is pretty much all still there. We still do automotive repair, sell new tires and rent U-haul trucks. The showroom has been sub-divided out and on one side we sell tires and auto service, the other half I actually run as a DISH Network call center.

I do remember the elephant stickers, and still have a pack sitting somewhere in the back of my desk. When I was a little kid, we had cases of those stickers and they went on everything you could possibly imagine. They where so awesome!

I even still have a pack of Verhoven Chevrolet playing cards

Here is a picture of a lot taken accorss the street.

[econ expat]

Wow- I did not know your family was still running the auto service at Verhoven.

Though I do recall seeing your name in news stories awhile back trying to prevent closing McNichols at Van Dyke. OK, a long time back ...

I knew your brother [[or cousin?) a few years ago, when he was a manager at Gorno Ford downriver, maybe he's still there. Last time I was there was probably 15 years ago, though.

[shovelhead]

Claude G., I didn't know the building was being used as a service facility at this time.
I'll have to take a look as sometime in the next month my wife and I are going to Mt. Olivet. Family history, we located her grandfather's grave there. He was interred in 1915 without a marker, so this year she and her sister had one made and it should be set in place soon.

econ, again small world. My late uncle was body shop manager at Gorno from about 1967 to 1975. He left after my aunt had a debilitating stroke and semi-retired to take care of her.