Let us Consolidate Detroit.

[Danny]

In 1898 New York City consolidated its neighboring boroughs to become a megalolopolis city we see today. Why not have Detroit consolidate with its neighboring suburbs. What impact will be to the citizens of Detroit and Suburbs? Will it effect political, racial and regionalizational matters? Maybe Miketoronto was right about combining Detroit with the suburbs instead of downsizing it.

[Detroitnerd]

I've been thinking about that possibility. Eliminating 100-odd police and fire departments, school boards and the like could save a pretty penny. But there has to be a regional vision to accompany it. Consolidation alone is not enough.

[DetroitSTAR]

I think the racial barriers would be too much to overcome. As much as people would say it is because of other reasons, I really think to comes down to the stigma of the city and the stereotypes developed on BOTH sides of the boarder that would prevent this from happening.

[bailey]

In 1898 New York City consolidated its neighboring boroughs to become a megalolopolis city we see today. Why not have Detroit consolidate with its neighboring suburbs. What impact will be to the citizens of Detroit and Suburbs? Will it effect political, racial and regionalizational matters? Maybe Miketoronto was right about combining Detroit with the suburbs instead of downsizing it.

That would metastasize the problem and kill the host. If you want to see out migration of both people and wealth and a regional real estate collapse on a scale unheard of in modern times- tell the inner ring border cities that they they are going to be annexed into Detroit against their will. cross post this post to the 'spot the cockpuncher' thread, because you can not be serious.

[Detroitnerd]

That would metastasize the problem and kill the host. If you want to see out migration of both people and wealth and a regional real estate collapse on a scale unheard of in modern times- tell the inner ring border cities that they they are going to be annexed into Detroit against their will. cross post this post to the 'spot the cockpuncher' thread, because you can not be serious.

I don't think anybody is talking about annexing suburban cities against their will. The state constitution prohibits that, so I don't know what you're talking about.

[Danny]

I don't think anybody is talking about annexing suburban cities against their will. The state constitution prohibits that, so I don't know what you're talking about.

There always petitions

[Detroitnerd]

There always petitions

Yes, any efforts at consolidation would have to be carefully sold to both cities involved. Everybody has to want it. It would also be helpful to change the state constitution. The process for annexation now is so difficult as to be politically impossible, for all practical purposes. And if we could change the authority to tax for transit, we could really get the ball going. The other missing ingredient is regional vision that sees what cities, suburbs and farmland are all good for.

Recommended reading is "Cities without Suburbs" by David Rusk. Most recently, large-scale annexation was done in Anchorage, Alaska, which went from a tiny town to a county-sized town.

[detourdetroit]

we need a constitutional convention to change home rule to reflect the fact that it is the region's responsibility and in its best interest to envision, plan for and expect a strong core city...

[Detroitnerd]

we need a constitutional convention to change home rule to reflect the fact that it is the region's responsibility and in its best interest to envision, plan for and expect a strong core city...

Yeah, that's the "vision thing."

[Baselinepunk]

While we're at it, let's consolidate the outer ring suburbs, and relocate them closer to the core.

[Detroitnerd]

While we're at it, let's consolidate the outer ring suburbs, and relocate them closer to the core.

Might be a better idea to let them revert to farmland when few can afford to live out there anymore.

[canuck]

We had a forced merger of municipalities on Montreal island 5 or 6 years ago like Toronto had anumber of years before us. Then some folks in older cities like mine shouted loud enough so the newly elected provincial govt brought a referendum to allow cities to demerge or become boroughs of Montreal. 5 or 6 mainly anglo cities on the west side demerged. I didnt like the mergers but voted to stay in, and lost and so we remained in Pointe-Claire. The demerged municipalities however still are obliged to give 55% of taxes to Montreal's agglomeration. This is used for a unified police, EMS and fire dept, transit, plus some budgetary allowance for culture etc...

The off island suburbs and the city are close to 4 million in population and some of them to some degree pay for transit where metro stations and suburban rail stretch out. There is bickering about the metro building costs but in the end everybody wants more transit. I hope that Detroit does get some kind of unification even if that seems unlikely. I cant see this political hot potato thrown from the fed to state govt, I mean the issue of forcing some kind of merger or adding another layer of regional decision makers to handle what is essentially a regional problem. The suburbs cant ignore the plight of Detroiters that much longer though, it is their plight too...

Can Semcog be something like a Greater Detroit Agency with powers over transit and municipal services on a regional basis without causing a Hiroshima Nagasaki bang?

[Patrick]

That would metastasize the problem and kill the host. If you want to see out migration of both people and wealth and a regional real estate collapse on a scale unheard of in modern times- tell the inner ring border cities that they they are going to be annexed into Detroit against their will. cross post this post to the 'spot the cockpuncher' thread, because you can not be serious.

Don't annex....start over. Create a new city with new boundaries. Kill the name Detroit and create a new city. Take all the other municipalities and combine into a new city. Even the teatards would love the sound of saving $$$$.

[R8RBOB]

I suppose for financial reasons this could be a good idea but it would never happen. If annexation could be a reality then Royal Oak Township would have merged with Ferndale decades ago. Highland Park would have gladly gave its land back to Detroit.

[detourdetroit]

even if the prospect of hell freezing isn't great, crazier things have happened and goodness knows we need to change how we do business here in se michigan. it's time to reopen the constitution and reconsider how local governance is structured, since it ostensibly hasn't changed since distance and time were measured with horses and the sun. what would the region begin to look like if we confronted the 8 mile boogeyman and removed its significance from the map?

[SpartanTom]

The surrounding cities should have been annexed a long time ago. That is how normal, healthy cities function, so the surrounding little towns don't drain the life out of the core city [[like has already happened here).

But I think that option has long passed us by. It just won't happen now.

[detourdetroit]

i agree, the mindset here is just that...set. but if we want to be viable as a city AND a region, we've got to start talking about stuff like this. pronto. MUCH crazier things have happened in the world. one way to do it is through a constitutional convention, with a committee focused on home rule.

[hudkina]

Isn't there a vote this november for a constitutional convention?

Also, as far as consolidation, the only way it would work is if the entire Tri-County area merged into a single-layer government entity similar to Indianapolis' unigov. Merging Detroit with just a few inner-ring suburbs won't do much in "fixing" the regional infighting and will most likely draw people further out. However, by consolidating the entire region, the power shifts to the suburbs and therefore people will be far more likely to stay put.

I've said this before, but once the unigov is set up the idea would be to create a regional council. The tri-county area has about 4 million people. By creating a council of fifty representatives each district would have a population of some 80,000 people. The idea would be to create each district around a specific business district or office center. For example, the "Rochester" district would contain the city of Rochester and as much of the surrounding area as would add up to about 80,000. To the west would be a "Pontiac" district, to the east a "Utica" district, to the south a "Troy" district, and to the north an "Oxford-Lake Orion" district. Some districts would be relatively small [[e.g. a Hamtramck district might only cover about 6 or 7 sq. mi.) while others would be relatively large [[e.g. a Holly district might cover nearly 100 sq. mi.) but in general each district would ideally focus around one major office/business district and a surrounding population of some 80,000 people.

[Ravine]

Are you folks even thinking about this idea?

The reason why the suburbs exist is that people wanted to get away, further out, from the urbs.

This idea is one-sided and entirely ridiculous.
If you don't believe me, ask the suburbs.

[English]

I would support this, but I just don't see this happening without major outside coercion.

[Ravine]

And it's not about me being Mr. Negative, or being down on Detroit, so please, everybody, spare me the childish "geez, Ravine, who peed in your Cheerios?" bullshit.

I'm just saying, you folks can sit there and fling around serious-sounding terms like "governance," "regional authority," "annexation," and "demerged municipalities," while sipping on your lattes, all you want, and none of that faux-sophisticated double-talk will transform this idea into anything even remotely realistic, sensible, or possible.

But, carry on. It seems that the important thing, here, is to impress upon each other how Detroitocentric you all are.

[Hermod]

My thoughts:

1. I think that Hudkina is on to something here with his concept of a tri-county consolidation to create "Motor City" with fifty districts [[wards) of 80,000 population.

2. Eliminate all of the city governments in the area [[to include Detroit). Establish a "Motor City" government with a strong mayor elected on a city-wide basis and fifty "aldermen" elected one from each district.

3. "Detroit" would be a district centered around the old downtown core and extending in size sufficient to encompass 80,000 population. What was the city of Detroit would be ten aldermanic wards in the new "Motor City".

4. Some centrally located location in the tri-county region would be selected as the city center and contain the city government buildings. One police department, one fire/EMS department, one board of education, one transit authority all with districts in the eighty wards.

5. Annexation by Detroit will not work. Consolidation will only work if the kleptocracy is completely dismantled as a political entity and subsumed into a healthy body.

[detourdetroit]

ravine, you're right about the impetus for the suburbs initially, but it is increasingly not the rationale for whether or not people stay, as well as what may attract new folks to a place. what regional detroit needs to understand is that we are a region, whether we like it or not. and moving a few miles in any direction isn't going to change that fact. and if we can't accept that we are a region socially then at least we should understand we are one economically...especially of late. moreover, i would hope enough of us would understand that we ALL benefit from coordinated planning, transportation, etc. decisions that are made more rationally and sustainably, and which figure to place a viable, vital core city at the center of the economy. places like indianapolis and louisville have figured out a modern response to this dilemma, and have retroactively instituted a regional governance system in spite of push back from affected suburbs. it's hard to compare cities apples to apples... they are just two examples, and have socioeconomic and racial issues that pale in comparison to ours. however, if our legislature had cajones and could think long term for just an instant, they could do something similar, or even go so far as to emulate what was done in toronto and institute such a system in spite of vehement local opposition that voted the proposal down, since local government in canada, like the US, is just a creature of the state. am i suggesting this is easy, politically viable, or popular? no. would it be the right debate to have in light of where we are now and how we progress as a region into the 21st century? well maybe that's a different story... or we can keep doing things the way they've always been done.

[Detroitnerd]

But, carry on. It seems that the important thing, here, is to impress upon each other how Detroitocentric you all are.

Well, on the face of it, that would seem a fair criticism. But if you extend boundaries and the whole region is under one government, we have effectively changed what Detroit is from a defunded inner city to a massive metro region. Ideally, it would be done sensibly, with district representation, a solid understanding of why urban, suburban and rural environments are desirable and worth funding, and finally help us begin building a real regional transit system.

If that's too provocative, there are some interesting half-measures, such as revenue-sharing to help fund regional visions or changing the state constitution to allow taxing authority for transit [[with a good example on Woodward, perceptions may change rapidly enough to talk about that).

But it's important to understand that this is not about Detroit taking over the suburbs. It is about trying to unify this fragmented region into a place that can attract investment by providing all kinds of environments, not just a choice of disinvested city, attractive suburbs and increasingly disinvested exurbs.

[southsider]

I think its a great idea. One of the only chances that Detroit has of any form of recovery is to remove the cyclical political machine that breeds so much dysfunction in the city. If somehow you can "zone-in" a population of people that with common sense and sound leadership practices then you'd have a chance of turning things around.