What Dateline didn't show..

**sehender1** · April-22-10, 09:39 AM

We have a piece at FreepOpinion.com today by Luther Keith, a former Det News staffer who spent four hours showing Chris Hansen and the Dateline crew a lot of different areas in Detroit.
He says none of what they shot with him made the final cut.
Interesting read. More perspective on the issue.

http://freep.com/article/20100422/OP...nce-in-Detroit

Retroit · April-22-10, 09:44 AM

All cities have good neighborhoods like Detroit, but very few, or none, have neighborhoods [[if you can still call them that) as bad as Detroit.

People want to see something new, different, or unusual; not what they can easily see in their own city.

**gnome** · April-22-10, 10:10 AM

Stephen,

Frankly, I'm surprised you are surprised. As an editor yourself you practice the same selection process with every article in the Freep. For example, you have repeatedly shown selective inclusion of facts in the hands-off treatment of the Maroun real estate and trucking empire.

You may disagree, just as I'm sure Chris Hansen would disagree with your inferred accusation of "hit-job", but even in disagreement I find it incredulous you'd be surprised that ABC would give a CliftsNotes review of Detroit's problems.

Just as newspapers have space constraints, tv news magazines have time constraints, decisions are made which neatly fit within the considered sterotypes of any subject. You don't really expect ABC to do a detailed balanced report on Detroit when Detroit and Detroiters fail to admit to its own failings? When buffons like Hoarce Sheffield are given space within your very pages to spew misdirected outrage at a news-tainment program.

Puhleeze, save your surprise for something surprising.

**iheartthed** · April-22-10, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Stephen,

Frankly, I'm surprised you are surprised. As an editor yourself you practice the same selection process with every article in the Freep. For example, you have repeatedly shown selective inclusion of facts in the hands-off treatment of the Maroun real estate and trucking empire.

You may disagree, just as I'm sure Chris Hansen would disagree with your inferred accusation of "hit-job", but even in disagreement I find it incredulous you'd be surprised that ABC would give a CliftsNotes review of Detroit's problems.

Just as newspapers have space constraints, tv news magazines have time constraints, decisions are made which neatly fit within the considered sterotypes of any subject. You don't really expect ABC to do a detailed balanced report on Detroit when Detroit and Detroiters fail to admit to its own failings? When buffons like Hoarce Sheffield are given space within your very pages to spew misdirected outrage at a news-tainment program.

Puhleeze, save your surprise for something surprising.

I don't see where the o/p claimed to be surprised.

**sehender1** · April-22-10, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Stephen,

Frankly, I'm surprised you are surprised. As an editor yourself you practice the same selection process with every article in the Freep. For example, you have repeatedly shown selective inclusion of facts in the hands-off treatment of the Maroun real estate and trucking empire.

You may disagree, just as I'm sure Chris Hansen would disagree with your inferred accusation of "hit-job", but even in disagreement I find it incredulous you'd be surprised that ABC would give a CliftsNotes review of Detroit's problems.

Just as newspapers have space constraints, tv news magazines have time constraints, decisions are made which neatly fit within the considered sterotypes of any subject. You don't really expect ABC to do a detailed balanced report on Detroit when Detroit and Detroiters fail to admit to its own failings? When buffons like Hoarce Sheffield are given space within your very pages to spew misdirected outrage at a news-tainment program.

Puhleeze, save your surprise for something surprising.

Ummmm. I never said I was surprised.
And I didn't write the piece in question. Luther Keith did.
And I absolutely never inferred that Hansen did a hit-job. My personal opinion is the exact opposite of that, so you're way, way off the mark there.
Again, Luther's piece expresses his opinion, not mine. I published it because he's someone who had a personal encounter with the news crew that did the piece, and because he raised important questions about what they did.
That doesn't mean I agree.. just that, as an editor, I thought it was an important perspective to share with readers... [[that's fully half of what I do, by the way.. )

In terms of a "hands-off" treatment of Moroun, I'd also wonder a bit where you're coming from. We've written several editorials that criticize his bad-actor habits as such a big property owner and operator of an important public crossing.
The news side at the paper just spilled lots of ink detailing what he owns, who he is, etc....
If you know something more than what has been written about him, I'd encourage you to share it with our reporters or my staff...

**iheartthed** · April-22-10, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by sehender1

Ummmm. I never said I was surprised.
And I didn't write the piece in question. Luther Keith did.
And I absolutely never inferred that Hansen did a hit-job. My personal opinion is the exact opposite of that, so you're way, way off the mark there.

So you think that what Dateline aired last Sunday was a balanced portrayal of what the city of Detroit is right now?

**sehender1** · April-22-10, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

So you think that what Dateline aired last Sunday was a balanced portrayal of what the city of Detroit is right now?

I wouldn't say balanced, either. So I guess I shouldn't have said "exact opposite."
I just didn't have a very strong reaction to the piece - nowhere near as strong as many other people seem to have. There wasn't anything untrue in it.

And frankly, I don't know what people here think this place should look like to people who haven't been here for awhile or have never been here. It's a mess, and people are rightly stunned. I know I was after being away 12 years and getting back into town in 2007..

But, of course, Hansen didn't show the good parts of the city, few as they may be and as under siege as they indisputably are. So no, it wasn't "balanced" in an absolute sense. But neither is the true picture in the city.. at least not from my perspective.

That said, this is my home, and I live here and am raising a family here and likely won't leave.. So I want things to get better. I just don't feel like pretending they aren't as bad as they really are..

**gnome** · April-22-10, 01:21 PM

Stephen,

Forgive me, I obviously misinterpeted your original post. I assumed since you titled it "What Dateline Didn't Show..." that you considered it new news.

If you haven't done so, I suggest you take a look at the website: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/ take particular attention to the viewers comment section. In contrast to some readers comments found at other news sources, there seems to be a more decerning take on the Chris Hansen piece. Few comments are needlessly harsh and most are sympathic to the plight of our fair city.

As far as my comments on your kid glove Moroun treatment, if you don't see it, you don't see it.

Again, forgive me for misreading your original post. I'll try to be a better reader in the future.

**R8RBOB** · April-22-10, 03:20 PM

For the record, I found the Dateline piece very interesting, but I agree wtih those who say that the story should have been balanced. That said, NBC should have shown it on Friday as a two-hour story instead of a hour piece on Sunday. You can't really describe a city as old as Detroit in a mere 60 minutes minus the commercials.

Detroiters know that there areas you couldn't pay people to live in. For those souls that live in undesirable neighborhoods, I say that I feel for you. Detroit is a punchline because we stopped caring. Everyone told Detroit that it is a dump so we accepted that. There are good areas that still exist in Detroit and those areas were ignored because who would have watched if we showed Sherwood or Rosedale from the air? We watched to see the decay of the eastside, the westside, the north end and the southwest side from the air and be shocked from the aftermath of negligent. This is Detroit, good or bad.

**torbusto** · April-22-10, 03:35 PM

What Dateline also didn't show was Detroiters taking pride in their neighborhood & their block by cleaning up trash, having neighborhood pride, block parties.
Also they could of shown people like this guy who as an artist wanted to take abandoned homes and turn them into works of art, similar to what Tyree Guyton did. Check out this amazing house on Grand River near I-96, the house is covered with broken pieces of mirrors, paintings with African symbols & meanings.

http://www.vimeo.com/channels/ericseals#11098878

**SWMAP** · April-22-10, 03:42 PM

"What Dateline also didn't show was Detroiters taking pride in their neighborhood & their block by cleaning up trash, having neighborhood pride, block parties."

I imagine that every city and town has that sort of thing going on, so what would be the story in that? What is interesting to me as I make my way around the City is how actually little of that sort of thing is going on! Or maybe its going on a lot and most detroiters don't care and mess everything up again.

**sehender1** · April-22-10, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Stephen,

Forgive me, I obviously misinterpeted your original post. I assumed since you titled it "What Dateline Didn't Show..." that you considered it new news.

If you haven't done so, I suggest you take a look at the website: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/ take particular attention to the viewers comment section. In contrast to some readers comments found at other news sources, there seems to be a more decerning take on the Chris Hansen piece. Few comments are needlessly harsh and most are sympathic to the plight of our fair city.

As far as my comments on your kid glove Moroun treatment, if you don't see it, you don't see it.

Again, forgive me for misreading your original post. I'll try to be a better reader in the future.

Fair enough. Sorry if I seemed harsh in my response..

**torbusto** · April-22-10, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

"What Dateline also didn't show was Detroiters taking pride in their neighborhood & their block by cleaning up trash, having neighborhood pride, block parties."

I imagine that every city and town has that sort of thing going on, so what would be the story in that? What is interesting to me as I make my way around the City is how actually little of that sort of thing is going on! Or maybe its going on a lot and most detroiters don't care and mess everything up again.

What would be the story in that? For real? Don't you think in showing some people taking pride in their neighborhood & their block by cleaning up it would balance out the aerial and driving footage of the blight, abandonment, etc? It does happen in the city probably not at a full force like it should. May you're not looking hard enough or in the right places

NBC could have done research and would have found things. They were here off and on for 9 months shooting, surely it was/is happening

http://www.cleandowntown.org/default.asp

or this

http://detnews.com/article/20100410/...borhoods-today

this stuff happens all the time man

Retroit · April-22-10, 06:49 PM

I don't think it is realistic to expect a network special on a city that is functioning smoothly. Let's see, "Tonight on Dateline we are going to take you to Troy, Michigan, where most of the homes are inhabited and in good condition, and most kids go to school and graduate, and where crime is low...stay tuned, you are not going to believe it!"

**English** · April-22-10, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

"What Dateline also didn't show was Detroiters taking pride in their neighborhood & their block by cleaning up trash, having neighborhood pride, block parties."

I imagine that every city and town has that sort of thing going on, so what would be the story in that? What is interesting to me as I make my way around the City is how actually little of that sort of thing is going on! Or maybe its going on a lot and most detroiters don't care and mess everything up again.

Actually, the story about Detroit for my entire lifetime [[more than three decades) has been "see how horrible and backwards this city is -- wow!" Everyone in America who has read a newspaper over the past 25 years knows about the negative aspects of Detroit.

Showing the other side of Detroit would be a novel story for the national news media. I thought the purpose of the news was to inform us about something we didn't already know, not to titillate.

**REL** · April-22-10, 09:23 PM

I'm going to play along with the title of this thread and finish the sentence. How 'bout these:

...the line for a table at Slow's
...the energetic buzz at an Open City meeting
...kids laughing & playing in Clark Park
...the ridiculous crowds Eastern Market on a Saturday morning
...a potter at Pewabic throwing a vase
...the lobby of the Guardian

Anyone else?

LL Cool D · April-22-10, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

I don't think it is realistic to expect a network special on a city that is functioning smoothly. Let's see, "Tonight on Dateline we are going to take you to Troy, Michigan, where most of the homes are inhabited and in good condition, and most kids go to school and graduate, and where crime is low...stay tuned, you are not going to believe it!"

Bullseye Retroit!!! It's all about voyeurism and pandering, the media puts Detroit on stage no different from PT Barnum and his freakshow. I'm guilty of it too, I see these beautiful crumbling houses and imagine long ago the kids running downstairs Christmas morning, sitting around the tree, tearing open the presents. I get bittersweet, hug my kids, but it's cheap voyeurism all the same. I'd rather it wasn't so.

**English** · April-22-10, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by REL

I'm going to play along with the title of this thread and finish the sentence. How 'bout these:

...the line for a table at Slow's
...the energetic buzz at an Open City meeting
...kids laughing & playing in Clark Park
...the ridiculous crowds Eastern Market on a Saturday morning
...a potter at Pewabic throwing a vase
...the lobby of the Guardian

Anyone else?

Love this, REL! How about:

...the energy at Avalon Bakery on Christmas Eve as people line up for cranberry walnut bread...
...the tranquil beauty of the Riverfront on a perfect, sunny spring or autumn day...
...the smile of the owner of Good Girls Go to Paris as you're finishing up your crepe and heading back out into the rain...
...room after room of books at the Shrine of the Black Madonna Cultural Center, while next door you can get your flowers from the Livernois-Davison Florists...
...the satisfying taste of a beef patty and coco bread from one of the Jamaican shops on Seven Mile...
...the VARIED views of the cityscape that you get from riding the Dexter bus on the Westside even today [[thinking of jjaba) or any of the north-south routes...
...kids, couples and families whizzing around Campus Martius on a crisp winter day...
...NEIGHBORHOOD people working in an urban garden alongside volunteers, a rainbow alliance growing a "harvest for the world" and for Detroit...
...afterschool tutoring programs at any number of churches in the 'hood...
...young entrepreneurs in trendy areas [[Midtown) and not-so-trendy [[my sister's shop)...
...speaking of shops, how about the Saturday morning gossip in one of those beauty or barber shops in the 'hood?...
...or Friday evening Happy Hour at Union Street?...
...or the American Cancer Society Relay for Life at Marygrove College, one of my favorite volunteer events of the year?...

To say that that efforts of some to live a good life and to do good work in Detroit are any less relevant that what we saw on Sunday evening is to reward pathos, despair, and desperation. It is to dishonor those who spent their lives "hoping for better things" by rolling up their sleeves and helping this place rise from the ashes with their blood, sweat, and tears. Their work deserved the national audience. Who knows how many people watching might have donated or volunteered to be part of the solution?

Instead, the national audience was moved by the one lady that was focused upon and wanted to donate money to her. That's all well and good, and she seems like a very deserving and admirable person, but she is one of hundreds of thousands in need. There are organizations in place that are working among our people every single day. Wouldn't the audience's heartstrings have been better served donating to Focus Hope, or Blight Busters, or the Capuchin Soup Kitchen?

**Gistok** · April-23-10, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by REL

I'm going to play along with the title of this thread and finish the sentence. How 'bout these:

...the line for a table at Slow's
...the energetic buzz at an Open City meeting
...kids laughing & playing in Clark Park
...the ridiculous crowds Eastern Market on a Saturday morning
...a potter at Pewabic throwing a vase
...the lobby of the Guardian

Anyone else?

REL... whenever I have an EMAIL conversation with out-of-towners and they wonder if all of Detroit is that bad... I send them these links [[a simple cut/paste from my EMAIL draft folder)... mentioning that although the city is in bad shape... these pictures show the best of Detroit.... I always seem to get a "WOW" reply!

**Lonyo exit** · April-23-10, 08:34 AM

I'm going to play along with the title of this thread and finish the sentence. How 'bout these:

...the line for a table at Slow's
...the energetic buzz at an Open City meeting
...kids laughing & playing in Clark Park
...the ridiculous crowds Eastern Market on a Saturday morning
...a potter at Pewabic throwing a vase
...the lobby of the Guardian

Anyone else?

You guys just don't get it. Or choose to play stupid.

Go to any of the top 30, or top 40 cities in the country. Those things are the NORM. You shouldn't have to point those things out to pat yourself on the back.

It's like that old Chris Rock bit about lower-class people patting themselves on the back for taking care of their kids. You're SUPPOSED to do that. It's not noteworthy. It's the bare minimum. Stop congratulating yourself for doing what is expected of you.

Pointing to a popular restaurant, or kids playing in a freakin' park, or the lobby of a building, is not a big accomplishment anywhere else. It is the BARE MINIMUM NORM. The fact that in Detroit it is considered worth jumping up and down about only further illustrates what terrible terrible shape the city really is in.

**SWMAP** · April-23-10, 08:44 AM

"Pointing to a popular restaurant, or kids playing in a freakin' park, or the lobby of a building, is not a big accomplishment anywhere else. It is the BARE MINIMUM NORM. The fact that in Detroit it is considered worth jumping up and down about only further illustrates what terrible terrible shape the city really is in."

Exactly. All cities [[maybe excepting Gary, Indiana) have all those things. Detroit does have some pockets of normalcy - but the many pathogogies outweigh the decent stuff. Why won't Kroger build in the city? The fact is, crime, slippage and a sense of entitlement in Detroit residents [[demands, demands) keep Kroger away. Same for nearly every other national retailer and the small retailers have to cope with suchenormous pathologies that they lose their shirts.

I'm happy abouut the Dateline piece - I think its like lancing a boil. Let Detroiters - especially the ones who intend to send money to Kwame Kilpatrick and the ones who are protesting land-grabs by Hantz Farms- see that the way we live isn't normal. And, by the way, I live and own a home in Detroit.

DC48080 · April-23-10, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Lonyo exit

You guys just don't get it. Or choose to play stupid.

Go to any of the top 30, or top 40 cities in the country. Those things are the NORM. You shouldn't have to point those things out to pat yourself on the back.

It's like that old Chris Rock bit about lower-class people patting themselves on the back for taking care of their kids. You're SUPPOSED to do that. It's not noteworthy. It's the bare minimum. Stop congratulating yourself for doing what is expected of you.

Pointing to a popular restaurant, or kids playing in a freakin' park, or the lobby of a building, is not a big accomplishment anywhere else. It is the BARE MINIMUM NORM. The fact that in Detroit it is considered worth jumping up and down about only further illustrates what terrible terrible shape the city really is in.

Brilliant observation Lonyo. Unfortunately so many people fail to understand that.

If you really want something to crow about, go beyond the norm. Become exceptional. Do something many other cities are not doing.

I am waiting for the follow up story [[if it ever comes) in 20, 30, 50 years when NBC comes back and says "This was Detroit in 2010, look at it today". I want to see the story of how a city came back from the trash heap and became great again. Unfortunately I wonder if I'll ever see it in my lifetime.

Retroit · April-23-10, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by English

Everyone in America who has read a newspaper over the past 25 years knows about the negative aspects of Detroit.

You can read about it all you want, but until you see it in person [[or in a documentary), you really can't appreciate the amount of abandonment and decay in Detroit.

If they had a special on all the good things that happened in Detroit, the rest of the country would say "Big Deal!"

DC48080 · April-23-10, 09:03 AM

Unfortunately people's expectations have been so dumbed down that they think it is noteworthy when people stand in line at a bakery, eat at a restaurant, manage to keep a business open or manage to raise children.

What is truly noteworthy is a 25% high school graduation rate, 29% unemployment, 50% adult illiteracy. These things are noteworthy in a sense of how far a city has fallen and should be a clarion call to action that the city is in its death throes. Nobody is celebrating this, just calling the rest of the nation's attention to it, and not so anyone can point their finger at Detroit and say "HA HA".

**Pam** · April-23-10, 09:10 AM

You guys just don't get it. Or choose to play stupid.

Go to any of the top 30, or top 40 cities in the country. Those things are the NORM. You shouldn't have to point those things out to pat yourself on the back

No, you don't get it. It's not patting anyone on the back, it's just pointing out that good things exist in Detroit and it needs to be done because so many people [[local and nationwide) don't know that.